DerrickHenrysCleats

Josh Gordon 2019 Outlook

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8 minutes ago, Spyplane said:

I was quite clear in what I said. I told you the hype isn't about last year. The hype is about 2013 because it showed what he's capable of.

You're on a fantasy forum. This is a place where the most diehard go to talk fantasy sports. These fantasy competitors are placing bets on the future in order to win. If you're placing a bet on Josh Gordon and hoping to get what he did last year then you're doing it wrong. He's not being taken in round one or two for obvious reasons but that doesn't mean his output need be in line with the round of his current ADP. This is basic stuff.

People aren’t expecting 2013 results, they are basing off what happened last year, taking in the new changes and projecting from there. Of course there is potential for him to boom which is the lure. But he’s also prone to suspensions. If most people were expecting 2013 he’d be gone in the 2nd. It’s basic stuff

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I'll repeat: Around Pick 70-80 is exactly where he should go. I took him there, felt good about it considering the alternatives (Kirk, A-rob, Ekeler, those kinds...)

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3 hours ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

Still in his athletic prime years.

 

 

28, actually entering decline... Factor in heavy drug abuse I'd put money on him breaking down/declining rather than sustaining. 

He's a waste of a pick, like he has been each of the last 4 or so years... Each year we go through this and every year people come out defending him hard then disappear or hide behind the sad story BS when he eventually shoots up/smokes up/snorts up and disappears.

You would think this act gets old after a while, I'm amazed at how many suckers there are out there.

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Maybe my memory is terrible, but every time this guy gets on the field he tears it up. He's still in his physical prime (with very little wear on his body). He produced with so many shoddy QB's in Cleveland.

 

He's worth a grab in the mid rounds for certain. His floor is around that level, but his ceiling is MUCH higher.

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28 minutes ago, StevieStats said:

28, actually entering decline... Factor in heavy drug abuse I'd put money on him breaking down/declining rather than sustaining. 

He's a waste of a pick, like he has been each of the last 4 or so years... Each year we go through this and every year people come out defending him hard then disappear or hide behind the sad story BS when he eventually shoots up/smokes up/snorts up and disappears.

You would think this act gets old after a while, I'm amazed at how many suckers there are out there.

Nah. 27 is their peak, but prime for wide receivers is until 30-31 depending on the player. If you want to go that route, Gordon would have much less wear and tear than most receivers since he’s had two years off. Hopkins, Adams, Allen, Beckham. Gordon is only a year older than these receivers (he just turned 28) with less mileage (factoring “heavy drug abuse” for weed is ridiculous).  By your logic all those receivers are about to decline. Antonio Brown is 31 and is coming off a 1,300/13TD season. 

 

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1 hour ago, StevieStats said:

28, actually entering decline... Factor in heavy drug abuse I'd put money on him breaking down/declining rather than sustaining. 

 

57 minutes ago, ss3walkman said:

(factoring “heavy drug abuse” for weed is ridiculous).  

 

Dude....

https://www.gq.com/story/josh-gordon-nfl-2017-interview

 

Josh Gordon: "I've used alcohol on many, many occasions, Xanax on many occasions, cocaine several occasions, marijuana most of my life, codeine, cough syrup, methazine is very prevalent where I'm from,'' Gordon admit. "It's what I grew up using.''

 

I'm not saying he's shot at age 28 because of his drug use for for the past 15 years or so.  I'm just pointing out his substance abuse issues in the past aren't from just "weed". 

 

According to Gordon, his failed test in 2013 was for Codeine.

Edited by Iron-cock
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1 hour ago, ss3walkman said:

Nah. 27 is their peak, but prime for wide receivers is until 30-31 depending on the player. If you want to go that route, Gordon would have much less wear and tear than most receivers since he’s had two years off. Hopkins, Adams, Allen, Beckham. Gordon is only a year older than these receivers (he just turned 28) with less mileage (factoring “heavy drug abuse” for weed is ridiculous).  By your logic all those receivers are about to decline. Antonio Brown is 31 and is coming off a 1,300/13TD season. 

 

 

Except those receivers know what it takes to be a professional athlete, both on and off the field. They have strict routines, and regimens, constantly watching film etc, Just doing whatever it takes to perfect their craft. Gordon has never had any of that. Less wear and tear? Sure that would help if sports had no mental aspect to it. Gordon's lengthy absences from football should be viewed as a major negative.

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3 hours ago, ss3walkman said:

Nah. 27 is their peak, but prime for wide receivers is until 30-31 depending on the player.

image.png.c1dc7f31c74963c9e7fffab24b4a1961.png

I created this in the Julio thread, check the discussion there and draw your own conclusions.

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20 hours ago, mulhollandvelvet said:

You can't even commit to your own faux objectivity. Serious question? No it wasn't. 

Very serious question.  It’s been so many years, I don’t even remember what he’s done.  It’s just interesting that this thread comes up every year with such a loyal following.  Don’t get me wrong, I’ll gladly take a flyer on him somewhere later in the draft if the value is right.  

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10 hours ago, bhawks489 said:

People aren’t expecting 2013 results, they are basing off what happened last year, taking in the new changes and projecting from there. Of course there is potential for him to boom which is the lure. But he’s also prone to suspensions. If most people were expecting 2013 he’d be gone in the 2nd. It’s basic stuff

People aren't expecting 2013 results but they are basing expectations off 2013 results. If 2013 hadn't happened then these Josh Gordon threads would be 1% the size they are. Most are not drafting and hoping for last season. Last season isn't warranting this level of excitement. If that's what you're personally hoping for then I think you're overpaying.

Edited by Spyplane

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2 hours ago, Spyplane said:

People aren't expecting 2013 results but they are basing expectations off 2013 results. If 2013 hadn't happened then these Josh Gordon threads would be 1% the size they are. Most are not drafting and hoping for last season. Last season isn't warranting this level of excitement. If that's what you're personally hoping for then I think you're overpaying.

 

Not 1 person has claimed they want 2013 results.

 

Where do you come up with this stuff?

Edited by DerrickHenrysCleats

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35 minutes ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

Not 1 person has claimed they want 2013 results.

 

Where do you come up with this stuff?

I never said that anyone is expecting 2013 results. 

Where do you come up with this stuff?

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5 hours ago, Boudewijn said:

image.png.c1dc7f31c74963c9e7fffab24b4a1961.png

I created this in the Julio thread, check the discussion there and draw your own conclusions.

JG isn't your typical WR when it comes to mileage and physical stress. He doesn't really fit on this chart for the same reason Ricky Williams wouldn't fit on a similar chart of RB's.

Edited by Spyplane

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Guys-

I've been sitting back and listening to everyone's comments as I've been writing on many forums for some time now.

 

My two cents.....Gordon is 28 years old,  probably in the best shape of his life physically and mentally.  I believe in this life that everyone on Gods green earth that works towards a much better place for themselves at least deserves the benefit of the doubt.  We have come across many an athlete that has had many issues,  whether it be mental, physical,  psychological, drug or alcohol related.  Mental illness and drug addiction are real and clearly an obstacle that is tough to overcome.   He doesn't beat women or children,  he hasn't been indicted on murder charges....... the guy has demons with drug and alcohol addictions. 

 

He is still in the prime of his career,  is clearly playing with what amounts to be a fresh start,  new year,  playing with the GOAT, in an offense he now is familiar with and we all know how talented he is.   My prediction honestly......he will surpass 1200 yards and grab 9+ TDs.

 

I feel he is at the turning point of not just his career,  but his life choices and now will be his time.   Take this FWIW everyone...... but this is my honest assessment after following him throughout his career and many an article I've read about him.   Believe everyone...... this is Gordon's time..... and if not,  so be it and move on if you doubt. 

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He has burned me too many times in the past. If he has a great year it will be on someone else's team this year.

 

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9 minutes ago, panthers528 said:

Guys-

I've been sitting back and listening to everyone's comments as I've been writing on many forums for some time now.

 

My two cents.....Gordon is 28 years old,  probably in the best shape of his life physically and mentally.  I believe in this life that everyone on Gods green earth that works towards a much better place for themselves at least deserves the benefit of the doubt.  We have come across many an athlete that has had many issues,  whether it be mental, physical,  psychological, drug or alcohol related.  Mental illness and drug addiction are real and clearly an obstacle that is tough to overcome.   He doesn't beat women or children,  he hasn't been indicted on murder charges....... the guy has demons with drug and alcohol addictions. 

 

He is still in the prime of his career,  is clearly playing with what amounts to be a fresh start,  new year,  playing with the GOAT, in an offense he now is familiar with and we all know how talented he is.   My prediction honestly......he will surpass 1200 yards and grab 9+ TDs.

 

I feel he is at the turning point of not just his career,  but his life choices and now will be his time.   Take this FWIW everyone...... but this is my honest assessment after following him throughout his career and many an article I've read about him.   Believe everyone...... this is Gordon's time..... and if not,  so be it and move on if you doubt. 

The funny part is that the non-Gordon-fans come here every single season to complain about the Gordon fans and Gordon himself. If you do not want to draft him or think the hype around him is unwarranted because of "one great season" that is fine, but why the need to come in here --every single year as they remind us-- and feel the need to give your two cents that nobody truly cares about. 

 

If you have an actual argument for why he will not succeed, I personally would welcome that. That is what the forums are for. If your argument is that "he is a dope" and "those drafting him are dopes" or the "no way he makes it an entire season" well, we are all perfectly aware of his past and the risks involved, so do us all a favor and save your time and anger. 

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11 minutes ago, Grayson2401 said:

The funny part is that the non-Gordon-fans come here every single season to complain about the Gordon fans and Gordon himself. If you do not want to draft him or think the hype around him is unwarranted because of "one great season" that is fine, but why the need to come in here --every single year as they remind us-- and feel the need to give your two cents that nobody truly cares about. 

 

If you have an actual argument for why he will not succeed, I personally would welcome that. That is what the forums are for. If your argument is that "he is a dope" and "those drafting him are dopes" or the "no way he makes it an entire season" well, we are all perfectly aware of his past and the risks involved, so do us all a favor and save your time and anger. 

To summarize: Constructive feedback wanted.

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19 minutes ago, Spyplane said:

To summarize: Constructive feedback wanted.

Basically. The hate just becomes comical. 

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2 minutes ago, FantasyGeek2018 said:

Fixed.

I mean, he put up 720 yards on 40 catches in 11 games just last season. What about extrapolating that to a full season is so difficult? It is not just hype or one great season. He puts up numbers when he plays. He just needs to play.  

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57 minutes ago, Grayson2401 said:

The funny part is that the non-Gordon-fans come here every single season to complain about the Gordon fans and Gordon himself. If you do not want to draft him or think the hype around him is unwarranted because of "one great season" that is fine, but why the need to come in here --every single year as they remind us-- and feel the need to give your two cents that nobody truly cares about. 

 

If you have an actual argument for why he will not succeed, I personally would welcome that. That is what the forums are for. If your argument is that "he is a dope" and "those drafting him are dopes" or the "no way he makes it an entire season" well, we are all perfectly aware of his past and the risks involved, so do us all a favor and save your time and anger. 

 

The issue with Gordon has always been between his ears.  That is not only an actual argument for why he might not succeed but also a compelling one. Labeling it anything else is disingenuous.

 

Now I will agree with you that it is redundant past a certain point because everyone is aware of the risks associated with his behavior and mental focus (or lack thereof) and since it is not something you can measure there isn't likely to be any consensus on it.  So asking people to accept that minds will differ on whether he has reformed or not and to focus on things that are more observable seems like the right ask. 

 

I think most people agree that if he plays, he can produce.  Some people will look at last year and project a 1000 yard season by extrapolating his 11 games to a full schedule.  Others will look at his track record and say you will be lucky if you get 11 games out of him.  So the question on valuation comes largely down to whether he will be on the field or end up flaking out or suspended. 

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