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Cooper Kupp 2019 Outlook

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15 minutes ago, afl5013 said:


Yeah, Goff not being able to throw a perfect pass from his back is unacceptable. Any other QB in the league could do that for sure. 

So I guess you are a Goff supporter. The guy sucks. I already said earlier this year on the Gurley thread that the offensive line wasn't going to be as great as the prior two seasons. Here are the most sacked QBs in the league:

1. Jameis Winston (36)

2. Kyler Murray (35)

3. Russell Wilson (33)

23. Jared Goff (18)

Yeah, Goff is always on his back. BTW, if you didn't know, the NFL has 32 teams to put that #23 rank in perspective, tied with Stafford (missed games), Tannehill (played in 7 games, started 5), and Brady.

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Edited by FitzMagic
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On 11/26/2019 at 6:21 AM, smash10033 said:

Horrible schedule  during the playoffs...…  Hoping the Ram's figure something out !!!!  

Uh oh, I just saw that. Not good!

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1 hour ago, FitzMagic said:

So I guess you are a Goff supporter. The guy sucks. I already said earlier this year on the Gurley thread that the offensive line wasn't going to be as great as the prior two seasons. Here are the most sacked QBs in the league:

1. Jameis Winston (36)

2. Kyler Murray (35)

3. Russell Wilson (33)

23. Jared Goff (18)

Yeah, Goff is always on his back. BTW, if you didn't know, the NFL has 32 teams to put that #23 rank in perspective, tied with Stafford (missed games), Tannehill (played in 7 games, started 5), and Brady.

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Funny how you mention his amount of sacks, but not the amount of pressures. You do realize getting rid of the ball before being knocked to the ground is part of the "always on his back" phrase, right? Guess that doesn't support your argument though. He was pressured 220 times, so only being sacked 18 times is actually a positive thing for him. 

Shoot that gif right back at ya. Can't stand when people cherry pick stats.

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8 minutes ago, afl5013 said:


Funny how you mention his amount of sacks, but not the amount of pressures. You do realize getting rid of the ball before being knocked to the ground is part of the "always on his back" phrase, right? Guess that doesn't support your argument though. He was pressured 220 times, so only being sacked 18 times is actually a positive thing for him. 

Shoot that gif right back at ya. Can't stand when people cherry pick stats.

Weird considering that Goff seems incapable of identifying blitzes pre snap.

Just oblivious to them

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2 minutes ago, SadFaceHappy said:

Weird considering that Goff seems incapable of identifying blitzes pre snap.

Just oblivious to them


Some of it is also the fact that he's expecting the protection to do their job, which they've been horrible at all year, but you're right that that needs to work on that too. Good thing he's only 24 years old. 

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17 minutes ago, afl5013 said:


Funny how you mention his amount of sacks, but not the amount of pressures. You do realize getting rid of the ball before being knocked to the ground is part of the "always on his back" phrase, right? Guess that doesn't support your argument though. He was pressured 220 times, so only being sacked 18 times is actually a positive thing for him. 

Shoot that gif right back at ya. Can't stand when people cherry pick stats.

 

Im pretty sure those 22 guys who have gotten sacked more than Geoff are ahead of him or on the same page in the QB Hurry/Hit department as well. Feel free to go dig up those stats to debunk this opinion. 

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30 minutes ago, afl5013 said:


Funny how you mention his amount of sacks, but not the amount of pressures. You do realize getting rid of the ball before being knocked to the ground is part of the "always on his back" phrase, right? Guess that doesn't support your argument though. He was pressured 220 times, so only being sacked 18 times is actually a positive thing for him. 

Shoot that gif right back at ya. Can't stand when people cherry pick stats.

See what I posted in the Goff thread about pressures. I'm not cherry-picking. You obviously are a fan of his and that's okay. But stats and the eye test back me up on this one.

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7 minutes ago, Cdub2k said:

 

Im pretty sure those 22 guys who have gotten sacked more than Geoff are ahead of him or on the same page in the QB Hurry/Hit department as well. Feel free to go dig up those stats to debunk this opinion. 


Feel free to look that up. I just know from the eye test, it seems to me Goff gets pressured at a much higher rate than most, not all, other QBs and only being sacked 18 times so far  when facing that much pressure isn't a negative for him. 

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13 minutes ago, afl5013 said:


Feel free to look that up. I just know from the eye test, it seems to me Goff gets pressured at a much higher rate than most, not all, other QBs and only being sacked 18 times so far  when facing that much pressure isn't a negative for him. 

You are the one who mentioned how Geoff gets pressured and hit more than other QBs it’s up to you to post the stats to back up your own opinion. This is how healthy conversation works.

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The Rams are looking like everyone’s get right game right now. 
 

The very apt Goff sacks vs Goff pressures needs another layer: Goff needing a clean pocket either way to not suck a**.

 

I think I’m benching Kupp until further notice.

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13 minutes ago, Cdub2k said:

You are the one who mentioned how Geoff gets pressured and hit more than other QBs it’s up to you to post the stats to back up your own opinion. This is how healthy conversation works.

Based on what I've seen, that's free data, he's likely middle tier in pressures. His offensive line is average. There was also another where through Week 3 he wasn't Top 10 or Bottom 5 in the pressures category. That was really old, but nothing I could find from the fantasy sites other than having to pay. Like you said, that's on him since he claims Goff gets pressured more than the average QB. He's got a deep target, two underneath WRs, a RB and sometimes two TEs to check-down. There is no reason for him to be this bad. So now he makes Kupp and everyone else look bad because he can't read a defense.

 

Edited by FitzMagic

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When you go to check in on the Cooper Kupp thread and everyone is arguing about the difference between Goff getting sacked and “being on his back” vs. how good he is at throwing the ball away:

 


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What's Kupps value looking like in dynasty leagues?  Just a month ago his arrow was pointing up but things have quickly fallen apart in LA.  

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On 11/27/2019 at 2:18 PM, Cdub2k said:

You are the one who mentioned how Geoff gets pressured and hit more than other QBs it’s up to you to post the stats to back up your own opinion. This is how healthy conversation works.


And it was your opinion that the other 22 guys have similar stats (see below). That's on you to prove. I provided stats for Goff and even stated the basis of my opinion was actually watching the games. Healthy conversation isn't one person providing all of the stats and the other saying "well, I think this. Go get those stats".

On 11/27/2019 at 1:42 PM, Cdub2k said:

 

Im pretty sure those 22 guys who have gotten sacked more than Geoff are ahead of him or on the same page in the QB Hurry/Hit department as well. Feel free to go dig up those stats to debunk this opinion. 

 

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1 hour ago, vthokie3 said:

Should be safe to start this week. 

 

I really hope so but judging by the last few weeks, the hawk's defense seems to cause a lot of pressure... not sure if Goff can handle it

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It was quite disturbing to see how few snaps Kupp got this week. He was extremely efficient with the handful of targets he got, but I had no idea he had become Josh Reynolds' backup.

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Dudes turned into a 3rd down and red zone weapon- like he's on some type of snap count. Wondering if he's secretly having some knee issues or they are more effective with higbee as the in-line and having Reynolds and woods run reverses. Cooks looks like just a clear out guy

Kudos to Mcvay for tinkering with the offense and finding new success

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20 minutes ago, PlayTheWaivers said:

Dudes turned into a 3rd down and red zone weapon- like he's on some type of snap count. Wondering if he's secretly having some knee issues or they are more effective with higbee as the in-line and having Reynolds and woods run reverses. Cooks looks like just a clear out guy

Kudos to Mcvay for tinkering with the offense and finding new success


The expanded role for the TEs in this new look offense has been killing Kupp’s value the last half of the season.

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1 minute ago, SkinsChargersFan said:


The expanded role for the TEs in this new look offense has been killing Kupp’s value the last half of the season.

 

Basically woods runs better motion and screens and cooks is obviously the elite home run hitter- looks like Mcvay wants as much grass on the field used at all times and kupp....just doesn't fit I guess right now. Really not sure why he wouldn't just he in higbees role but keeping higbee in there doesn't give the pass or run tell like the 3 wr look did 

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36 minutes ago, SkinsChargersFan said:


The expanded role for the TEs in this new look offense has been killing Kupp’s value the last half of the season.

Y’all need to chill. Krupp still had a clean a** game. I assure there is no one Goff loves connecting with more on a TD than with his roommate Cooper Krupp.

Even with low snap count I assure you Goff always has cooper on his mind. Unless Goff Involuntarily suffers like he has on road before, he WILL FEED KUPP. 

Edited by Jrt80
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6 minutes ago, Jrt80 said:

Y’all need to chill. Krupp still had a clean a** game. I assure there is no one Goff loves connecting with more on a TD than with his roommate Cooper Krupp.

Even with low snap count I assure you Goff always has cooper on his mind. Unless Goff Involuntarily suffers like he has on road before, he WILL FEED KUPP. 


You’re ignoring the trends and going with an old narrative.

 

The facts are that in the 5 games since the bye, Kupp hasn’t cleared 65 yards once, and is averaging only slightly over 5 targets per game.

 

Woods (with the exception of the game he missed obviously) and the TEs have greatly out-targeted Kupp over that span and he’s become third fiddle when he was previously the top option in the passing game.

 

The old narrative of “Goff and Kupp... roommates... blah blah blah” doesn’t mean anything when the stats (and our eyes) say otherwise.

 

You also mentioned road Goff... well 3 of those 5 games were at home, and Goff’s best game was actually on the road last week @ Arizona.  Their next two games? On the road @ Dallas and @ San Francisco championship week.  Goff threw for only 78 yards in LA against the Niners the first time they played.

 

If you’re not concerned, you’re not paying attention.

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18 minutes ago, SkinsChargersFan said:


You’re ignoring the trends and going with an old narrative.

 

The facts are that in the 5 games since the bye, Kupp hasn’t cleared 65 yards once, and is averaging only slightly over 5 targets per game.

 

Woods (with the exception of the game he missed obviously) and the TEs have greatly out-targeted Kupp over that span and he’s become third fiddle when he was previously the top option in the passing game.

 

The old narrative of “Goff and Kupp... roommates... blah blah blah” doesn’t mean anything when the stats (and our eyes) say otherwise.

 

You also mentioned road Goff... well 3 of those 5 games were at home, and Goff’s best game was actually on the road last week @ Arizona.  Their next two games? On the road @ Dallas and @ San Francisco championship week.  Goff threw for only 78 yards in LA against the Niners the first time they played.

 

If you’re not concerned, you’re not paying attention.

I’m not ignoring trends, actually I’m observing them. Your right when everything is under control Goff has the luxury of seeing his other targets (like woods) however when the crucial plays occurs and it’s 3rd and long or the rams are in the readzone, Goff becomes  inherently aware of Kupps location. That’s what my eyes tell me. 
 

If you watched the rams play at all this season you can just tell that Goff trust Kupp the most when things are on the line. 

I can’t speak to his usage but I can say that Kupp works best in an underneath role where the coverage is liable to be busy chasing cook + Woods’s and forgets about him.

Kupp thrives most when he’s not the focal point of the passing game. He has the best hands on the team and Goff/Mcvay know that 

Edited by Jrt80

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Kupp has been playing plenty until this week. I think it was just a matchup thing vs SEA (I think they even did it vs SEA in the 1st qtr of their last game vs them). I don't think they ran the 2 TE set a lot in between. Hopefully its not an every week thing. Hard to bench Kupp vs Dallas who have been getting crushed by WRs the last few weeks.

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