Stonej14

Lamar Jackson 2019 Outlook

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1 hour ago, Dexter75 said:

 

Looking at your team, Ekeler is your MVP, not Lamar. Dude is RB3 in PPR and he's been a backup the last two months. QBs are interchangeable, you must be new to FF. 

I would agree with this 9/10 of times. But not when your scoring as many points as Lamar. This guy can put up a 30-40 burger any given week. He’s averaging around 27 points a game and his floor is rock solid. He’s setting a record this year. So no QBs aren’t interchangeable when your comparing them to Lamar this season. 

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1 hour ago, Dexter75 said:

 

...and I can guarantee you that CMC will be on a lot more fantasy winning teams than Lamar will.  A fantasy RB like CMC is far more valuable than any QB unless you are in a super flex 2 QB league. 

 

I wouldn't be so sure - CMC was a consensus Top 5 pick whereas Lamar could be had in the early double-digit rounds (I "reached" for him in the 7-8 turn). Obviously, you would take CMC over Lamar if you had to pick one, but Lamar will be on plenty of Playoff and maybe Championship rosters too because of the low opportunity cost. 

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24 minutes ago, n00chness said:

 

I wouldn't be so sure - CMC was a consensus Top 5 pick whereas Lamar could be had in the early double-digit rounds (I "reached" for him in the 7-8 turn). Obviously, you would take CMC over Lamar if you had to pick one, but Lamar will be on plenty of Playoff and maybe Championship rosters too because of the low opportunity cost. 

 

Anyone who knows FF knows you would take TWO RBs before you ever touched a QB, Lamar included. A team with two top 12-15 RBs goes a lot further than the team with Lamar and two RB2/3s. I have two top 5 RBs and have been streaming QBs most the season, Im still alive. Lamar owner is gone, Watson owner didn't even make the playoffs. QBs are not important in FF. But yes, if you took care of your RBs and played in a league with bad players and got Lamar that late, that's a steal. Lamar was gone by the 3rd in most leagues with people paying attention. 

Edited by Dexter75

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19 minutes ago, Dexter75 said:

 

Anyone who knows FF knows you would take TWO RBs before you ever touched a QB, Lamar included. A team with two top 12-15 RBs goes a lot further than the team with Lamar and two RB2/3s. I have two top 5 RBs and have been streaming QBs most the season. Lamar owner is gone, Watson owner didn't even make the playoffs. QBs are not important in FF. 

Again, no one is disputing that a rock-solid RB1 will trump the game-changer QB1, like a 2018 Mahomes or a 2019 Jackson! However, opportunity cost is key. But here are the RB's I "passed" on to draft Lamar Jackson in the 8th Round: Freeman, Penny, Breida, Henderson, Cohen, Guice. 

Wouldn't you rather have Lamar Jackson?

EDIT: And while I agree that QB streaming can be an effective strategy, there is a fair amount of luck involved in that as well as the fact that streaming has really caught on as of late, limiting the obvious appeal of the strategy when more people are doing it. Fantasypros did a WAR analysis that gave LJ a 2-3 WAR value (excellent), and that sounds about right to me...

Edited by n00chness
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21 minutes ago, Dexter75 said:

 

Anyone who knows FF knows you would take TWO RBs before you ever touched a QB, Lamar included. A team with two top 12-15 RBs goes a lot further than the team with Lamar and two RB2/3s. I have two top 5 RBs and have been streaming QBs most the season, Im still alive. Lamar owner is gone, Watson owner didn't even make the playoffs. QBs are not important in FF. But yes, if you took care of your RBs and played in a league with bad players and got Lamar that late, that's a steal. Lamar was gone by the 3rd in most leagues with people paying attention. 


Cmon man  🤦‍♂️

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6 minutes ago, esprits4s said:

LOL, Jackson was not getting drafted in the 3rd round...

 

He was flying off the draft board in my 16-team 2QB'er ;)

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12 minutes ago, Smoketheclay said:

He’s questionable with a quad injury - anyone concerned?

Don’t let dashoe see this. Lamar is invincible and should run all the time. Even in blowouts. 

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4 hours ago, Dexter75 said:


I was replying to the guy who said Lamar was the fantasy MVP. QBs are never fantasy MVPs for the reason I just laid out. Rarely does the winning team in fantasy leagues have the best fantasy QB. I had Mahomes last year and got beat in the championship by a guy streaming QBs. QBs are interchangeable in fantasy “bro”

Get a load of this guy 😂 we dgaf. 

 

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2 hours ago, n00chness said:

 

I wouldn't be so sure - CMC was a consensus Top 5 pick whereas Lamar could be had in the early double-digit rounds (I "reached" for him in the 7-8 turn). Obviously, you would take CMC over Lamar if you had to pick one, but Lamar will be on plenty of Playoff and maybe Championship rosters too because of the low opportunity cost. 

 

With all the crap 1st round disappointments this year, CMC is absolutely the fantasy MVP for most leagues.  Best values are probably Jackson or Ekeler though.

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8 hours ago, Dexter75 said:

 

Anyone who knows FF knows you would take TWO RBs before you ever touched a QB, Lamar included. A team with two top 12-15 RBs goes a lot further than the team with Lamar and two RB2/3s. I have two top 5 RBs and have been streaming QBs most the season, Im still alive. Lamar owner is gone, Watson owner didn't even make the playoffs. QBs are not important in FF. But yes, if you took care of your RBs and played in a league with bad players and got Lamar that late, that's a steal.

Lamar was gone by the 3rd in most leagues with people paying attention. 

 

🤔

🙄

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6 hours ago, youngrice said:

Don’t let dashoe see this. Lamar is invincible and should run all the time. Even in blowouts. 

 

Is his arm broken?🤣

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8 hours ago, Dexter75 said:

 

Anyone who knows FF knows you would take TWO RBs before you ever touched a QB, Lamar included. A team with two top 12-15 RBs goes a lot further than the team with Lamar and two RB2/3s. I have two top 5 RBs and have been streaming QBs most the season, Im still alive. Lamar owner is gone, Watson owner didn't even make the playoffs. QBs are not important in FF. But yes, if you took care of your RBs and played in a league with bad players and got Lamar that late, that's a steal. Lamar was gone by the 3rd in most leagues with people paying attention. 

 

He was not going 3rd round. You are wrong. Hell, Mahommes ADP was 3 or 4th round. 

All ADP had him going in the middle rounds. Expert consensus was he COULD be a top 12 QB, but he along with K. Murray were for the most part being drafted as 2nd QBs.

I agree with what you're saying on QB strategy. That is why I drafted L. Jackson in round 10.

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8 hours ago, Dexter75 said:

 

Anyone who knows FF knows you would take TWO RBs before you ever touched a QB, Lamar included. A team with two top 12-15 RBs goes a lot further than the team with Lamar and two RB2/3s. I have two top 5 RBs and have been streaming QBs most the season, Im still alive. Lamar owner is gone, Watson owner didn't even make the playoffs. QBs are not important in FF. But yes, if you took care of your RBs and played in a league with bad players and got Lamar that late, that's a steal. Lamar was gone by the 3rd in most leagues with people paying attention. 


Conflating position scarcity value with draft capital with if a guy is MVP vs how you performed in your league is the most nonsensical basis for debate I have come across in these threads and then fabricating that Lamar was a consensus 3rd rd pick by "smart" drafted is probably the most delusional thing I had ever seen someone state.

CMC performed according to his draft capital as the #2 or 3 player taken in the draft.  CMC performed as a 1st rd pick should perform, same as Michael Thomas. Lamar destroyed all expectations vs his draft capital by multiples he was on average the #14 QB taken off the board. He wasnt even drafted as a starting QB, if I  drafted CMC and lamar. hands down Lamar is my fantasy MVP  based on his draft capital and his week to week reliability of double digit points which included play against the TOP defenses in the NFL. pats-niners-Buff-seahawks-hou-pitt etc😂

 

So your draft capital argument is severely flawed

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I have both Lamar and CMC on the same team, and if you had to take away one, I would definitely say it has to be Lamar.  CMC is more valuable to any team because of RB scarcity and the ability to stream QBs.  You can’t find a Lamar on the wire, but you can find someone almost every week in 12-team league who will minimize your positional disadvantage compared to 75% of the other owners in your league.

 

However, because of Lamar’s draft price, it is more feasible that you were able to build a great team around Lamar (as I was), so I think everyone is just going to have to agree to disagree.


QB is the most important position in real football, that’s why QBs are almost always named MVP. Lamar is the NFL MVP this year.  Conversely, RBs are the most valuable in fantasy football, and that’s why RBs are almost always the fantasy football MVP.

 

When they name the Super Bowl or World Series MVP, they don’t take into account player’s salaries. They pick the player that the team couldn’t do without. I know this is the Lamar thread, so many of you haven’t been able to experience firsthand just how amazing it is to have CMC on your team.

 

Most Valuable? CMC

Best Draft Pick? Lamar

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16 minutes ago, SkinsChargersFan said:

 You can’t find a Lamar on the wire, but you can find someone almost every week in 12-team league who will minimize your positional disadvantage compared to 75% of the other owners in your league.

 

 

 

 

The entire basis of your argument could be applied to a top 3 TE or a defense like the pats which literally carried teams to the playoffs. Their points are probably historic on a fantasy level and you couldnt find a dst off the wire weekly to minimize the positional disadvantage. 

Also TE would be in contention for fantasy MVP  in some years based on your premise which is why there are only 3 drafted in the 1st 3 rounds every year and the debate every draft season is how high do u take the consensus #1 TE like a gronk or a kelce because they  generally give you 1st rd production. Thus season we didnt have the overperforming weekly stud TE as we had the previous few. Hooper was on trend to be one until his injury

 

Edited by dashoe

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9 hours ago, Nyblazer11235 said:
9 hours ago, Dexter75 said:

 

Anyone who knows FF knows you would take TWO RBs before you ever touched a QB, Lamar included. A team with two top 12-15 RBs goes a lot further than the team with Lamar and two RB2/3s. I have two top 5 RBs and have been streaming QBs most the season, Im still alive. Lamar owner is gone, Watson owner didn't even make the playoffs. QBs are not important in FF. But yes, if you took care of your RBs and played in a league with bad players and got Lamar that late, that's a steal. Lamar was gone by the 3rd in most leagues with people paying attention. 


Cmon man  🤦‍♂️

 

Dexter is in a tight playoff race with Dr. Whom for 2019 Fantasy Football Troll of the Year, just ignore him.

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11 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

 

The entire basis of your argument could be applied to a top 3 TE or a defense like the pats which literally carried teams to the playoffs. Their points are probably historic on a fantasy level and you couldnt find a dst off the wire weekly to minimize the positional disadvantage. 

Also TE would be in contention for fantasy MVP  in some years based on your premise which is why there are only 3 drafted in the 1st 3 rounds every year and the debate every draft season is how high do u take the consensus #1 TE like a gronk or a kelce because they  generally give you 1st rd production. Thus season we didnt have the overperforming weekly stud TE as we had the previous few. Hooper was on trend to be one until his injury

 


You cherry picked one point in my entire argument, but fine... I’ll play along.
 

The Pats DST should definitely be in the conversation as well, both owners in my leagues got byes. But as the owner with the other bye, I grabbed Pittsburgh and Baltimore weeks ago in both leagues. They’ve been better than the Pats the last few weeks, and have as good a schedule as NE for the semis & championship week.  There ARE always good defenses on the wire.

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11 hours ago, SkinsChargersFan said:

Guys, Guys, chill.

 

There is an ENTIRE thread named “2019 FANTASY MVP” perfectly tailored to house this discussion.

 

Right now we should be spending our time freaking out about whether Lamar is gonna play on Thursday.

Agreed.  The debate of fantasy MVP can be concluded after the season is over.  Right now LJ owners are more interested if he is healthy and if/how much he will play.

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10 hours ago, Dexter75 said:

 

Lamar was gone by the 3rd in most leagues with people paying attention. 

 

Noone on the planet had Lamar with an ADP in round 3. Stop it

Edited by Klientel
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1 hour ago, SkinsChargersFan said:


You cherry picked one point in my entire argument, but fine... I’ll play along.
 

The Pats DST should definitely be in the conversation as well, both owners in my leagues got byes. But as the owner with the other bye, I grabbed Pittsburgh and Baltimore weeks ago in both leagues. They’ve been better than the Pats the last few weeks, and have as good a schedule as NE for the semis & championship week.  There ARE always good defenses on the wire.

 

of course I cherry picked which you have done also posting about your team and your league.

This is my point you and the other poster keep referring to your teams and your leagues and your circumstances.

I already posted a chart a couple of pages back that show ESPN playoff bound 10 man leagues and the top players on each team 1 and 2 were cmc and lamar.  Which is very telling given that cmc was drafted as a starter on draft day and lamar was not. So if you take into account all of the zombie leagues you can argue that for active teams lamar was their mvp  because they had to select lamar as their starting QB during the course of the season vs cmc being in the lineup by default.

 

Also you can find a hot player on the waiver in ANY position on any given week;  success is not position specific. Againall you are stating is you can find a streamable player in a deeper position pool but that does not discount a player who is exceptional from being a fantasy MVP. 

Edited by dashoe

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6 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

of course I cherry picked which you have done also posting about your team and your league.

This is my point you and the other poster keep referring to your teams and your leagues and your circumstances.

I already posted a chart a couple of pages back that show ESPN playoff bound 10 man leagues and the top players on each team 1 and 2 were cmc and lamar.  Which is very telling given that cmc was drafted as a starter on draft day and lamar was not. So if you take into account all of the zombie leagues you can argue that for active teams lamar was their mvp  because they had to select lamar as their starting QB during the course of the season vs cmc being in the lineup by default.

 

Also you can find a hot player on the waiver in ANY position on any given week;  success is not position specific. Againall you are stating is you can find a streamable player in a deeper position pool but that does not discount a player who is exceptional from being a fantasy MVP. 


Give it a rest. I have both, and I’m telling you, CMC is more valuable to my team. You’re obviously biased toward Lamar, fine.

 

Also, if you want to quote ESPN stats, whatever... below are Yahoo. “But if you adjust for ZOMBIE leagues, blah, blah, blah... ok.”  The Lamar owner in my other league didn’t even make the playoffs... and I can assure you it’s not a zombie league. The CMC owner? He’s in the final 4 with me... someone who has streamed QBs all year.

 

 

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12 hours ago, yossarian said:

I'm sorry but the second you compared Lamar Jackson to Kordell "Slash" Stewart you should've just stopped, selected all your text, and deleted. That may be the worst take in a thread full of red hot bad takes. Kordell Stewart was a Taysum Hill type who started for a couple seasons because the league was a QB wasteland at the time. And then you're following that up with "well actually Jimmy G is the REAL MVP". I don't even know what to say to that. 

We've now moved the goalposts from "he can run, but can he throw?" to "Yeah he's ok this season but will he be running for 1000 yards in 7 seasons and throwing like Peyton because Kordell Stewart? If not then I'm still not sold". C'mon man. 

 

You seem to not at all understand the concept of context.  I have one goal post.  Intelligence.  And I don't believe Jackson has enough of it to be a long term starting QB in the NFL.  That is the crux of my argument.  Inability to play the cerebral part of the Quarterback position gets exposed over time.  Everything else in my comments are anecdotal, and the MVP mention of Garoppolo was obviously tongue in cheek because I have a previously stated bias towards him.  

Stewart is part of the list of dudes who the "NFL has never seen before", I agree he is on the low end of that spectrum, but I think he was significant enough at the time (and had a much larger impact than RGIII ever did) not to be relegated to the waste bin of modern NFL history.  He was only "Slash", because Mike Tomczak was the QB of a playoff team and they wanted to utilize his athleticism.  He was a full time starting QB his 3rd season and started for 6 seasons with a 50-29 record, a Pro Bowl, and multiple 3,000 yard passing seasons while rushing for about 40 TD.  Like I said, I know its not a popular argument to crap all over something super trendy in the moment, but Historical perspective goes a long way.  

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