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Zac Gallen - SP Marlins

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I mean how stupid is your sport when you have guys who are clearly deserving of promotion held down because of some flaw in system?  How would you like if you were at your job and due for a massive promotion and they picked the janitor over you because he’s more cost controlled?  This process is ridiculous and needs to be changed.  Don’t tell me about the 40 man argument I don’t want to have to look at this horse**** filed roster of bums again to read off 27 names who should be put down.  Garbage a** organization.

Edited by Cmilne23
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32 minutes ago, Cmilne23 said:

I mean how stupid is your sport when you have guys who are clearly deserving of promotion held down because of some flaw in system?  How would you like if you were at your job and due for a massive promotion and they picked the janitor over you because he’s more cost controlled?  This process is ridiculous and needs to be changed.  Don’t tell me about the 40 man argument I don’t want to have to look at this horse**** filed roster of bums again to read off 27 names who should be put down.  Garbage a** organization.

 

It's a very widespread problem in baseball and it needs to be fixed ASAP. Personally, I think MLB should do away with the service time to reach FA altogether and make it so players can reach free agency when they turn 27 (just made up this age for sake of argument). It would motivate teams to not let their young talent rot in the minors so that they can control them longer. Just a thought.

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18 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

It's a very widespread problem in baseball and it needs to be fixed ASAP. Personally, I think MLB should do away with the service time to reach FA altogether and make it so players can reach free agency when they turn 27 (just made up this age for sake of argument). It would motivate teams to not let their young talent rot in the minors so that they can control them longer. Just a thought.

I agree to extent there has to be changes to system.  That’s not up for debate.  What those measures are, hopefully MLBPA can hold owners up over in next CBA to change.  This is just stupid.  This kids done literally anything you could ask of a young arm.  Went out in offseason busted his a**, is performing at levels hardly ever before seen in AAA.  The irony is if he had like a 4 era and wasn’t skyrocketing up prospect charts he’d probably be called up sooner.  It’s almost a disservice for him to be performing this well.  I don’t own him in any league other than one low stakes league so no horse in race.  Just is ridiculous to see this kid held down over inferior promotional candidates.  Especially the kid from AA who was in Yelich trade.  I’m sure this trash bag organization is trying to justify that horrific trade.

Edited by Cmilne23
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52 minutes ago, Cmilne23 said:

I agree to extent there has to be changes to system.  That’s not up for debate.  What those measures are, hopefully MLBPA can hold owners up over in next CBA to change.  This is just stupid.  This kids done literally anything you could ask of a young arm.  Went out in offseason busted his a**, is performing at levels hardly ever before seen in AAA.  The irony is if he had like a 4 era and wasn’t skyrocketing up prospect charts he’d probably be called up sooner.  It’s almost a disservice for him to be performing this well.  I don’t own him in any league other than one low stakes league so no horse in race.  Just is ridiculous to see this kid held down over inferior promotional candidates.  Especially the kid from AA who was in Yelich trade.  I’m sure this trash bag organization is trying to justify that horrific trade.

Can't disagree at all, although I am surprised nothing was done about it when they negotiated some of the new rules that will come in next year (basically no more September callups because you'll only be allowed to have 26 guys, etc.)  Still, something needs to be done because it's getting even worse than it was before.  Now, I understand why Gallen wasn't called up this time as he just pitched on Sunday, but he should have been called up first and then Hernandez could have been called up for this one.  Or vice versa and they just could have held them both back a bit to line up, although Urena was just recently put on the IL.  Still, this could have been handled differently so Gallen and Hernandez could now both be up here.

Picked up Gallen now twice, but almost can't afford to continue to use up a roster spot on somebody who continues to get passed over when there's other things I could be picking up.

Edited by KilloWertz
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^ Yeah, except he'll be turning 24 years old in a couple of months there Donnie.  But way to say a whole lot of nothing with a whole lotta words.  Must suck working for the worst organization in North American professional sports today. 

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19 hours ago, Cmilne23 said:

I mean how stupid is your sport when you have guys who are clearly deserving of promotion held down because of some flaw in system?  How would you like if you were at your job and due for a massive promotion and they picked the janitor over you because he’s more cost controlled?  This process is ridiculous and needs to be changed.  Don’t tell me about the 40 man argument I don’t want to have to look at this horse**** filed roster of bums again to read off 27 names who should be put down.  Garbage a** organization.

 

I don't disagree the Super-2 and arbitration system in general need an overhaul (and probably get one under the new CBA), but I can't really fault the Marlins for this.  They're going nowhere ... might as well wait a few more weeks to save millions in payroll when you're a "Garbage a** organization" as you say, which I don't disagree with one bit.

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I want Gallen up as much as everyone else but the pitchers the marlins promoted instead of Gallen actually pitched really well.

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10 minutes ago, alisgodnow said:

I want Gallen up as much as everyone else but the pitchers the marlins promoted instead of Gallen actually pitched really well.

 

They did.  However, their promotions were not merit based, as Gallen has clearly, performed better in the minors.  I don't think anyone has an issue with the players.  Just the system.

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The super 2 has likely been passed by for a few weeks now. That is NOT why he is still down. It may have been before June..but that is not the main reason now.

 

Edited by Slatykamora

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1 hour ago, JFS179 said:

 

I don't disagree the Super-2 and arbitration system in general need an overhaul (and probably get one under the new CBA), but I can't really fault the Marlins for this.  They're going nowhere ... might as well wait a few more weeks to save millions in payroll when you're a "Garbage a** organization" as you say, which I don't disagree with one bit.

 

Yes, with the way the rules are you can't blame them for taking that approach as it helps confirm their penny pinching ways and lack of interest in putting a winning product on the field for the few fans that they have. Teams that take advantage of this and do this are a disgrace to the sport tbh and they are what's hurting the game of baseball. Those who claim it's the speed of the game, etc are wrong. What's wrong with the game is teams like this doing this with their players and tanking.

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2 minutes ago, Slatykamora said:

The super 2 has likely been passed by for a few weeks now. That is NOT why he is still down. It may have been before June..but that is not the main reason now.

 

 

Probably so, but the date is fluid, obviously.  

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9 minutes ago, Goatstain3 said:

 

They did.  However, their promotions were not merit based, as Gallen has clearly, performed better in the minors.  I don't think anyone has an issue with the players.  Just the system.

 

Exactly. Promotions in baseball (for many teams) is not merit based and they should be. I really think changing things so that by age ___, all players are able to enter FA. This would motivate teams to put their best product on the field at all times and not toy with their players and their players like this. It affects so many things:

 

-Prevents these men from entering FA so that they can earn market value.

-Prevents the fans from seeing the best product possible.

-Ruins the game.

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17 minutes ago, JFS179 said:

 

Probably so, but the date is fluid, obviously.  

Yeah, but's never been even close to this late. At least point, it just can't be a main factor. They had to burn an option year on both Yammy and Hernandez this year. Just a matter of a re-building team trying NOT to lose talent when it can. You play around with the guys on your 40 man, using option years. Before diving into your players off it. Given that both Hernandez and Yammy have been good. This was a pretty easy call any re-builder would do. Regardless of the deadline.

 

Sure, the player who will get DFA'd is going to way worse than Gallen, but when you are stock piling talent mode. You're not in a hurry to make these moves.  The less key players to your franchise on the 40 Man, the more liberal you can be with that high wavier priority.

 

It's really more a function of the Marlins having a lot of quality pitching options within the current 40 man. That they can play with what they got. The hitting equivalent of Gallen would have already been in the majors for the Marlins.

Edited by Slatykamora

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15 minutes ago, Slatykamora said:

Yeah, but's never been even close to this late. At least point, it just can't be a main factor. They had to burn an option year on both Yammy and Hernandez this year. Just a matter of a re-building team trying NOT to lose talent when it can. You play around with the guys on your 40 man, using option years. Before diving into your players off it. Given that both Hernandez and Yammy have been good. This was a pretty easy call any re-builder would do. Regardless of the deadline.

 

Sure, the player who will get DFA'd is going to way worse than Gallen, but when you are stock piling talent mode. You're not in a hurry to make these moves.  The less key players to your franchise on the 40 Man, the more liberal you can be with that high wavier priority.

 

It's really more a function of the Marlins having a lot of quality pitching options within the current 40 man. That they can play with what they got. The hitting equivalent of Gallen would have already been in the majors for the Marlins.

 

I don't disagree with this at all ... I think it's kind of the confluence of events: not on 40-man, didn't line up perfectly, Hernandez and Yammamoto have pitched well, etc.

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The Marlins (among other teams) are intentionally putting a lesser product on the field. Whether they are "right" in doing so (because of the rules) since they're a rebuilding team is irrelevant here. The issue is that it's terrible for baseball to hold back your best player for financial gain. Good for the money in the franchises pockets? Sure. But absolutely horrible for the game and MLB needs to do something about it.

 

Gallen being down prevents the Marlins from having their best possible roster on the field and that's bad for the game. It's really that simple.

Edited by ThreadKiller
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1 minute ago, ThreadKiller said:

The Marlins (among other teams) are intentionally putting a lesser product on the field. Whether they are "right" in doing so (because of the rules) since they're a rebuilding team is irrelevant here. The issue is that it's terrible for baseball to hold back your best player for financial gain. Good for the money in the franchises pockets? Sure. But absolutely horrible for the game and MLB needs to do something about it.

 

No one in Houston is complaining these days.  Same arguments were made about them.  Washington did the same thing before that.  

It's the current CBA ...

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3 minutes ago, JFS179 said:

 

No one in Houston is complaining these days.  Same arguments were made about them.  Washington did the same thing before that.  

It's the current CBA ...

 

You're disagreeing that teams doing this is bad for the game of baseball?

I'm aware it's the current CBA. What I'm saying is the current CBS is horrible for the game.

 

Is it good and necessary for the teams overall success down the road? Sure bc of the rules. But the incentives to do so are bad for the game today.

Edited by ThreadKiller

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I think the outrage over a team doing what's best to build a consistent winner is misplaced, yes.  And I don't see it as bad for the game.

I'm quite happy Atlanta tore things down and rebuilt ... look where they are now.  As a fan, I'd much rather my team do that than hang out in no man's land, never good enough to win, and never bad enough to get the elite prospects.

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3 minutes ago, JFS179 said:

I think the outrage over a team doing what's best to build a consistent winner is misplaced, yes.  And I don't see it as bad for the game.

I'm quite happy Atlanta tore things down and rebuilt ... look where they are now.  As a fan, I'd much rather my team do that than hang out in no man's land, never good enough to win, and never bad enough to get the elite prospects.

 

You're missing the entire point. Nevermind.

EDIT: You mention the Braves as an example. I live in Atlanta and am very familiar with what they do. Remind me though, what top draft choices did they acquire due to "tanking" that are key contributors now or brought back key contributors in a trade? I'll wait.

 

You don't think there being a salary floor and hard cap along with adjusting how quickly a player can get to FA would help parity across the league (which of course is better for the game) are good ideas?

Edited by ThreadKiller

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3 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

The Marlins (among other teams) are intentionally putting a lesser product on the field. Whether they are "right" in doing so (because of the rules) since they're a rebuilding team is irrelevant here. The issue is that it's terrible for baseball to hold back your best player for financial gain. Good for the money in the franchises pockets? Sure. But absolutely horrible for the game and MLB needs to do something about it.

 

Gallen being down prevents the Marlins from having their best possible roster on the field and that's bad for the game. It's really that simple.

The MLBPA for years has been negotiating for the welfare of vets at the expense of rookies. The function of pre-call up players getting screwed is really neither party (MLBPA and Ownership) cared for their interest. '

Now that Owners have stopped over-paying vets. The MLBPA should finally realize they need to protect the young guys more. Since the FA money flow is drying up.

Sucks for Gallen and will suck until this Current CBA is up.

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I just think the league needs to do a better job at trying to create parity across the league. Maybe top draft picks are assigned differently and doesn't just automatically go to teams who are tanking? Maybe FA isn't based on service time and it's based on age? Maybe a hard salary cap and salary floor? All things that would create much better parity across the league rather than it being the same bottom feeders who act as second minor league systems for the teams actually interested in winning.

 

Teams do what they do right now based on the rules of the CBA, that isn't the point. The point is the CBA needs to be changed so that teams aren't motivated to do these things that might be good for their team down the road but terrible for today and the game NOW.

Edited by ThreadKiller
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