Keston Hiura 2019 Outlook

[Magoo 1,505]

10 minutes ago, Slatykamora said:

I doubt this is the Brewers aim. They wouldn't have called him up in the first place and called a scrub up from AAA if this was all about super 2. By putting him on the 40 man early they now need to hold him down a full 30 days to stop his clock. 

Brewers have been more proactive about capitalizing when they have a competitive team and I don't think this happens if Jesus had Options.

Fair but everything Hiura’s done —particularly at the MLB level —reinforces that eliminating an arb year could save over $10 mill. Feels like a calculated risk with all the other factors. 

 

[Slatykamora 2,789]

1 minute ago, Magoo said:

Fair but everything Hiura’s done —particularly at the MLB level —reinforces that eliminating an arb year could save over $10 mill. Feels like a calculated risk with all the other factors. 

 

The current Brewers owner has always put an emphasis on generating interest towards the brewers across the state. Getting buts in the seats and selling merch. Using a variaity of ways and promotions. They very much like making the big splash moves to generate intrest. They like to go all in when that competitive team foundation is in place. They resisted re-building a lot longer then they should because he was too scarred of losing fans.

They are very smallest market in the MLB. So on the hand. It makes sensce.  BUTTTTT they are also aggressive keeping the fans in and there is the other side of the $$$.

Which is getting playoff games AT HOME and making $$$ there. So its not as simple as super 2 savings. Making the playoff and securing at least 2 home playoff games is $$$$$$$$$. They are in a very very tight division race. You damn better believe the Brewers Owner knows this too.

 

 

[Backdoor Slider 8,273]

51 minutes ago, Slatykamora said:

I doubt this is the Brewers aim. They wouldn't have called him up in the first place and called a scrub up from AAA if this was all about super 2. By putting him on the 40 man early they now need to hold him down a full 30 days to stop his clock. 

Brewers have been more proactive about capitalizing when they have a competitive team and I don't think this happens if Jesus had Options.

I’m not suggesting super 2. Hiura has options, so they’re going to use them. They value organizational depth and want to do whatever they can to hold Aguilar, Thames, and Shaw. That’s more important to them than playing the best player, and that doesn’t happen in any other sport.

[miasma16 3,344]

43 minutes ago, Slatykamora said:

The current Brewers owner has always put an emphasis on generating interest towards the brewers across the state. Getting buts in the seats and selling merch. Using a variaity of ways and promotions. They very much like making the big splash moves to generate intrest. They like to go all in when that competitive team foundation is in place. They resisted re-building a lot longer then they should because he was too scarred of losing fans.

They are very smallest market in the MLB. So on the hand. It makes sensce.  BUTTTTT they are also aggressive keeping the fans in and there is the other side of the $$$.

Which is getting playoff games AT HOME and making $$$ there. So its not as simple as super 2 savings. Making the playoff and securing at least 2 home playoff games is $$$$$$$$$. They are in a very very tight division race. You damn better believe the Brewers Owner knows this too.

 

 

I mean, they just sent Hiura down. Not really sure the point of you making this argument.

[hailtoyourvictor 1,652]

1 hour ago, Slatykamora said:

I doubt this is the Brewers aim. They wouldn't have called him up in the first place and called a scrub up from AAA if this was all about super 2. By putting him on the 40 man early they now need to hold him down a full 30 days to stop his clock. 

Brewers have been more proactive about capitalizing when they have a competitive team and I don't think this happens if Jesus had Options.

 

Why do they need to keep him down a full 30 days to stop his clock 

[Slatykamora 2,789]

Hirua was 2 Weeks away from the super 2 deadline from when he was called up.

Players on the 40 man must be held the minors for 4 weeks to stop their clock. 

This is why the super 2 logic seems odds. No one calls up a 2 super guy BEFORE super 2 because of how the rules of players on the 40 man roster work.

 

Simply put. if you believe this is only service time manipulation. He will not be up until July. He cannot be called up in 2 weeks. Otherwise his clock will have never stopped. You are basically saying the Brewers costs themselves 2 weeks worth of his production in the middle of a playoff race.

So if that is your belief. Plan accordingly.

[hailtoyourvictor 1,652]

33 minutes ago, Backdoor Slider said:

I’m not suggesting super 2. Hiura has options, so they’re going to use them. They value organizational depth and want to do whatever they can to hold Aguilar, Thames, and Shaw. That’s more important to them than playing the best player, and that doesn’t happen in any other sport.

 

I don’t think you’d be wrong to suggest there are Super 2 considerations. 

 

 

Which is dumb and sucky but possible. 

[Macgregor 115]

3 minutes ago, Slatykamora said:

Simply put. if you believe this is only service time manipulation. He will not be up until July. He cannot be called up in 2 weeks. Otherwise his clock will have never stopped. You are basically saying the Brewers costs themselves 2 weeks worth of his production in the middle of a playoff race.

So if that is your belief. Plan accordingly.

So, it has to be four consecutive weeks?

No chance they can just tack on the minor time he needs to add up to that amount?

[KidDynamite420 143]

4 minutes ago, Macgregor said:

So, it has to be four consecutive weeks?

No chance they can just tack on the minor time he needs to add up to that amount?

I’ve been reading he only needs to stay down 10 days before the Super 2 is no longer applicable. If that’s their plan it makes sense to do it with their easy schedule next 2 weeks against Miami, Pit and San Fran (plus 2 games vs Hou). 

[SpartyinFoCo 123]

1 hour ago, Slatykamora said:

I doubt this is the Brewers aim. They wouldn't have called him up in the first place and called a scrub up from AAA if this was all about super 2. By putting him on the 40 man early they now need to hold him down a full 30 days to stop his clock. 

Brewers have been more proactive about capitalizing when they have a competitive team and I don't think this happens if Jesus had Options.

 

30 days? This is the first time I am reading something like this. Do you have a reference for this? 

[Slatykamora 2,789]

3 minutes ago, Macgregor said:

So, it has to be four consecutive weeks?

No chance they can just tack on the minor time he needs to add up to that amount?

 It's for the benifit of players who get called and re-called in quick succession. To prevent blatent service time manipulation of players that are members of the MLBPA. I might be mistaken at its only 20 days now...but it is for sure more than 2 weeks.

Player becomes a member of the MLBPA when promoted to the 40 man roster. So they get a few perks that were negotiated it. 

[Members_Only_76 7,249]

So at the moment the Brewers believe they’re best chance to win is without Hiura?

[KidDynamite420 143]

5 minutes ago, Slatykamora said:

 It's for the benifit of players who get called and re-called in quick succession. To prevent blatent service time manipulation of players that are members of the MLBPA. I might be mistaken at its only 20 days now...but it is for sure more than 2 weeks.

Player becomes a member of the MLBPA when promoted to the 40 man roster. So they get a few perks that were negotiated it. 

Can you get a source for this? Are you saying that because he was called up for his 17 games that if he’s called back up within a certain amount of time the games in the minors will count as games in the major and thus count towards his Game count toward Super 2 eligibility?

[Jericho 464]

13 minutes ago, KidDynamite420 said:

Can you get a source for this? Are you saying that because he was called up for his 17 games that if he’s called back up within a certain amount of time the games in the minors will count as games in the major and thus count towards his Game count toward Super 2 eligibility?

 

I think this is what you are looking for (though worded a bit weird):

ML service time is not credited during any period or periods of optional assignment totaling 20 days or more during a single season

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/league-info/transactions-glossary/

see also here (page 105)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx4PW47PiAi-dl9jVTg3RVNZSkU/view

But I believe it's 20 days for the entire year, not a single demotion. Unless someone has something else to point to

[2ndCitySox 4,442]

1 hour ago, Members_Only_76 said:

So at the moment the Brewers believe they’re best chance to win is without Hiura?

They are dumb. 

[The Big Bat Theory 7,292]

I wonder what is going on on Brewer fan sites right now and imagine it is not G rated.

[2ndCitySox 4,442]

To see a contender send down a top prospect who held his own and is playing better than the guy who displaced him (or any other bench bat - like Hernan Perez) to manipulate service time is Bush League. It's laughable, mang.

Hopefully for the Brewers this doesn't slow down Hiuras momentum, or disrupt what Moustakas has done since he is shifting back to 2nd. But if the offense starts tanking, in a tight division, with a dubious rotation, you better believe the front office will get lit up. 

(Side note: this has nothing to do with the fact they announced this today, after my lineups had locked, instead of yesterday. Nothing at all.) 

[2ndCitySox 4,442]

1 hour ago, Jericho said:

 

I think this is what you are looking for (though worded a bit weird):

ML service time is not credited during any period or periods of optional assignment totaling 20 days or more during a single season

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/league-info/transactions-glossary/

see also here (page 105)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx4PW47PiAi-dl9jVTg3RVNZSkU/view

But I believe it's 20 days for the entire year, not a single demotion. Unless someone has something else to point to

Determining service time: 

[Tommy Lee Jones 577]

I don’t understand anything that’s going on in this thread.  God, I’m so stupid.

[dicka24 417]

I think we in the fantasy community sometimes lose track of the fact that front offices, managers, owners, etc. are all trying to run a franchise and manage a team as opposed to do what's in the best interest of our fantasy teams and leagues.  😀

 

It sucks they sent the kid down but they want to maintain their depth for the playoff push, and while the kid was doing well he ended up drawing the short straw.  I get it, even tho a lot of people don't like it.

[Magoo 1,505]

2 minutes ago, dicka24 said:

I think we in the fantasy community sometimes lose track of the fact that front offices, managers, owners, etc. are all trying to run a franchise and manage a team as opposed to do what's in the best interest of our fantasy teams and leagues.  😀

 

It sucks they sent the kid down but they want to maintain their depth for the playoff push, and while the kid was doing well he ended up drawing the short straw.  I get it, even tho a lot of people don't like it.

When a GM claims he was sent down “for organizational depth” and does preemptive Q and As with beat writers with one of the questions being “Are you manipulating service time”, it’s safe to say they are completely full of super sized number twos.

[hailtoyourvictor 1,652]

9 minutes ago, dicka24 said:

I think we in the fantasy community sometimes lose track of the fact that front offices, managers, owners, etc. are all trying to run a franchise and manage a team as opposed to do what's in the best interest of our fantasy teams and leagues.  😀

 

It sucks they sent the kid down but they want to maintain their depth for the playoff push, and while the kid was doing well he ended up drawing the short straw.  I get it, even tho a lot of people don't like it.

 

Depth for a playoff push? You are buying that crap that David Stearns is shoveling?

 

The Brewers and Cubs literally tied for the NL Central division last season and needed a 163rd game to determine the winner. Sending down the better guy to play the worse guy and citing "depth for a playoff push" is asinine when you consider how tight the playoff race can end up.

 

 

Edited June 4, 2019 by hailtoyourvictor

[The Big Bat Theory 7,292]

9 minutes ago, dicka24 said:

I think we in the fantasy community sometimes lose track of the fact that front offices, managers, owners, etc. are all trying to run a franchise and manage a team as opposed to do what's in the best interest of our fantasy teams and leagues.  😀

It sucks they sent the kid down but they want to maintain their depth for the playoff push, and while the kid was doing well he ended up drawing the short straw.  I get it, even tho a lot of people don't like it.

And I think the front office are being slaves to the all mighty dollar and the "vet respect" crap.  So the Milwaukee front office is most definitely NOT doing what is in best interest of their "real" team to help them win their division right now. 

What they should do is place Aguliar on waivers.  If he passes through, he is sent to the minors.  If he is claimed and they come to an agreement with the other team they get something for their farm system for basically a big blob of nothingness.  At the very least they should IL him with a fake injury.

[hailtoyourvictor 1,652]

38 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

I wonder what is going on on Brewer fan sites right now and imagine it is not G rated.

 

It's wild

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Brewers/comments/bwf8rn/brewers_2b_keston_hiura_has_been_optioned_to/

[The Big Bat Theory 7,292]

2 minutes ago, hailtoyourvictor said:

It's wild

https://www.reddit.com/r/Brewers/comments/bwf8rn/brewers_2b_keston_hiura_has_been_optioned_to/

Thanks.  This is fun stuff.  This ...

Quote

PitchforkEmporium

 

ANGRY AT BASEBALL??

WANT TO JOIN THE MOB?

I'VE GOT YOU COVERED!

... to this, typical polite midwesterner response ...

Quote

SecureCucumber

This is upsetting. I am upset.

Also someone there with his take on Super 2 and Hiura:

Quote

theLoneliestAardvark

Top 22% in service time. A year of service time is 172 days on the 25 man active roster, and you can earn a max of 172 per year. If Keston stays up the whole year he would get something like 140 days or so this year (haven’t counted it exactly.) If he then stayed up for all of the next two years he would be at 2 years 140 or so day. The super 2 service time changes every year but is typically about 2 years 130 days. If Keston does not get Super 2 the Brewers will save a lot of money in 2022.