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1 hour ago, dicka24 said:

I think we in the fantasy community sometimes lose track of the fact that front offices, managers, owners, etc. are all trying to run a franchise and manage a team as opposed to do what's in the best interest of our fantasy teams and leagues.  😀

 

It sucks they sent the kid down but they want to maintain their depth for the playoff push, and while the kid was doing well he ended up drawing the short straw.  I get it, even tho a lot of people don't like it.

 

When was the last time an elite prospect was called up, played really well, hit a 9th inning game tying HR, was significantly outplaying the other options at his position and was sent down?

There will now be a significant portion of their own fan base (forget us fantasy players) that will be actively rooting for Shaw to fail miserably. 

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Aguilar: .250/.364/.393, 1 HR in 33 PAShaw: .143/.265/.286, 2 HR in 49 PAPerez: .161/.206/.194, 0 HR in 35 PAHiura: .307/.395/.627, 7 HR in 86 PA for Triple-A San Antonio    

Updated 162 game average- .317/.383/.592 46 HR/25 SB

So the Brewers just got swept by the Padres. In those three games check out these stats: Hernan Perez: 0/10, 3 K, 6 Men left on base. Travis Shaw: 0/7, 5K, 2 Men Left on base Jesus Agui

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I think everyone needs to slow down on Hiura.  Yes, he's hit 5 homers, but he also has a 23 - 3 K/BB ratio in 63 ABs.  His 4% walk rate and 33% K rate are not good.   We fantasy owners sometimes focus too much on the 5x5 stats, and not as much on the underlying data, defensive performances, or organizational situations that the decision makers do when it comes to roster moves.  Furthermore it's much better for this kid to play everyday in the minors than it is to sit on the bench in the pros, or play a couple of days a week.  The team is going to give the veteran who's had back to back 30+ homer / 90+ RBI seasons (and can play 3 infield positions) a chance to get back to form.  If Shaw doesn't over the next month then I'm sure the team will most likely reassess and move on.   Everyone knew this was a possibility when the kid got called up which is why I'm not surprised by it.  And yes it does suck, but reality tends to most of the time. 😀

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5 minutes ago, dicka24 said:

I think everyone needs to slow down on Hiura.  Yes, he's hit 5 homers, but he also has a 23 - 3 K/BB ratio in 63 ABs.  His 4% walk rate and 33% K rate are not good.   We fantasy owners sometimes focus too much on the 5x5 stats, and not as much on the underlying data, defensive performances, or organizational situations that the decision makers do when it comes to roster moves.  Furthermore it's much better for this kid to play everyday in the minors than it is to sit on the bench in the pros, or play a couple of days a week.  The team is going to give the veteran who's had back to back 30+ homer / 90+ RBI seasons (and can play 3 infield positions) a chance to get back to form.  If Shaw doesn't over the next month then I'm sure the team will most likely reassess and move on.   Everyone knew this was a possibility when the kid got called up which is why I'm not surprised by it.  And yes it does suck, but reality tends to most of the time. 😀

Better still is to play everyday in the majors.

And Shaw isn't a big star vet of many years.  He was always the journeyman who had a few streaks and one big season.  And if Shaw "doesn't over the next month" as you put it?  Well by then the Cubs could have taken advantage and built a big lead in the NL Central and it will be too late for Hirura or anyone else to help Milwaukee.

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17 minutes ago, dicka24 said:

I think everyone needs to slow down on Hiura.  Yes, he's hit 5 homers, but he also has a 23 - 3 K/BB ratio in 63 ABs.  His 4% walk rate and 33% K rate are not good.   We fantasy owners sometimes focus too much on the 5x5 stats, and not as much on the underlying data, defensive performances, or organizational situations that the decision makers do when it comes to roster moves.  Furthermore it's much better for this kid to play everyday in the minors than it is to sit on the bench in the pros, or play a couple of days a week.  The team is going to give the veteran who's had back to back 30+ homer / 90+ RBI seasons (and can play 3 infield positions) a chance to get back to form.  If Shaw doesn't over the next month then I'm sure the team will most likely reassess and move on.   Everyone knew this was a possibility when the kid got called up which is why I'm not surprised by it.  And yes it does suck, but reality tends to most of the time. 😀

SSS... he's had 69 PAs. his BB% isn't even close to stabilizing (~120 PAs) and while his K% is obviously ugly, some of that can probably be attributed to: 1) pressing at the onset of his callup and first taste of MLB pitching, and 2) pressing with the looming demotion hanging over his head. Also, for reference, Goldschmidt's K% is 32.8 and Joey Gallo's is 42.6 (!). Cherry picking examples there, but in today's MLB guys are selling out for power.

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3 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Better still is to play everyday in the majors.

And Shaw isn't a big star vet of many years.  He was always the journeyman who had a few streaks and one big season.  And if Shaw "doesn't over the next month" as you put it?  Well by then the Cubs could have taken advantage and built a big lead in the NL Central and it will be too late for Hirura or anyone else to help Milwaukee.

Shaw isn't a journeyman.  He's only 29 and has played for just 2 teams his entire career.  Boston & Milwaukee. 

He's had back to back 30+ HR / 90+ RBI seasons since he was traded to the Brewers (15 SB too).  .800+ OPS both years.  It's not just one big season.  He's a very good ball player that  plays multiple positions.  Yes he's struggling this year, but teams don't punt on guys like Shaw just because a kid with a 33% K rate hit some homers over 60 ABs.   Hiura has talent, and will get his shot, but the Brewers are running a franchise. Not a fantasy team. 

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The fact is Hiura had just 6 strikeouts in his last 6 games, drew 2 walks, and had 3 HR in his last 5 games. He was starting to get comfortable and they sent him down to make way for Travis Shaw (who is probably/definitely still dealing with lingering wrist issues). I really don’t see any sensible logic here

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4 minutes ago, dicka24 said:

Shaw isn't a journeyman.  He's only 29 and has played for just 2 teams his entire career.  Boston & Milwaukee. 

He's had back to back 30+ HR / 90+ RBI seasons since he was traded to the Brewers (15 SB too).  .800+ OPS both years.  It's not just one big season.  He's a very good ball player that  plays multiple positions.  Yes he's struggling this year, but teams don't punt on guys like Shaw just because a kid with a 33% K rate hit some homers over 60 ABs.   Hiura has talent, and will get his shot, but the Brewers are running a franchise. Not a fantasy team. 

 

The focus keeps getting put on Shaw when the real issue is Aguilar. Shaw needs time for sure and 1B is a clearer path without a good option.

This argument against Hiura, with the small sample K% being a lock, acts like Hiura has no pedigree and has shown no ability to adjust to the strike zone at levels with his hit tool. Which he has, even at the AAA level this year we saw that growth, and bat to ball has always been his carrying tool more than power. The power is playing up at AAA and MLB either through a concerted effort (which may explain the K uptick) or because of the ball.

He might not be the answer long term this year but Id far rather role Shaw 1B, Hiura 2B than present day Shaw and Aguilar. In regards to running a franchise to win, that latter combo isnt gonna cut it. 

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7 minutes ago, dicka24 said:

Shaw isn't a journeyman.  He's only 29 and has played for just 2 teams his entire career.  Boston & Milwaukee. 

He's had back to back 30+ HR / 90+ RBI seasons since he was traded to the Brewers (15 SB too).  .800+ OPS both years.  It's not just one big season.  He's a very good ball player that  plays multiple positions.  Yes he's struggling this year, but teams don't punt on guys like Shaw just because a kid with a 33% K rate hit some homers over 60 ABs.   Hiura has talent, and will get his shot, but the Brewers are running a franchise. Not a fantasy team. 

They aren't running it very well if they sent their best 2B option down forcing their best 3B option to move back over to 2B and threatening his white hot hitting tear that started when he got to return to 3B.  In this process they put in a player who has slumped for 3 full months into a power bat position at 3B while keeping one of the worst hitting platoons in baseball playing 1B. 

I mean sure some people are happy with this move.  But they all wear Cubbie blue.

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8 minutes ago, dicka24 said:

Shaw isn't a journeyman.  He's only 29 and has played for just 2 teams his entire career.  Boston & Milwaukee. 

He's had back to back 30+ HR / 90+ RBI seasons since he was traded to the Brewers (15 SB too).  .800+ OPS both years.  It's not just one big season.  He's a very good ball player that  plays multiple positions.  Yes he's struggling this year, but teams don't punt on guys like Shaw just because a kid with a 33% K rate hit some homers over 60 ABs.   Hiura has talent, and will get his shot, but the Brewers are running a franchise. Not a fantasy team. 

 

Having said that (and I agree with a lot you say) how long is a team expected to wait? Does Shaw get to continue this for a week, a month, all year? At some point a team does have to move on.  We are getting close to that and really this has nothing to do with Hiura's low walks and high k rate. They just want to get Shaw going again.  I think it's a mistake...

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3 minutes ago, dzemens said:

 

The focus keeps getting put on Shaw when the real issue is Aguilar. Shaw needs time for sure and 1B is a clearer path without a good option.

This argument against Hiura, with the small sample K% being a lock, acts like Hiura has no pedigree and has shown no ability to adjust to the strike zone at levels with his hit tool. Which he has, even at the AAA level this year we saw that growth, and bat to ball has always been his carrying tool more than power. The power is playing up at AAA and MLB either through a concerted effort (which may explain the K uptick) or because of the ball.

He might not be the answer long term this year but Id far rather role Shaw 1B, Hiura 2B than present day Shaw and Aguilar. In regards to running a franchise to win, that latter combo isnt gonna cut it.  

I respectfully disagree here. Shaw has looked totally cooked. Thames has actually taken over most of 1B lately and been fine, even Aguilar has been much better the last month in his new part time role. The team is better with Hiura at second and the platoon that has been working at 1B, plus Moose seems more comfortable at 3B.

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8 minutes ago, ST. STEVEN said:

I respectfully disagree here. Shaw has looked totally cooked. Thames has actually taken over most of 1B lately and been fine, even Aguilar has been much better the last month in his new part time role. The team is better with Hiura at second and the platoon that has been working at 1B, plus Moose seems more comfortable at 3B.

 

Aguilar over the last 7 days is hitting .200 with 1 HR and 1 RBI. 14 days .083 1 HR 2 RBI, 28 days .209 1 HR 9 RBI. I havent watched Shaw a ton but what Ive seen, and scouting the stat line Aguilar shouldnt be part of any platoon at present and he cant play anything but 1B. The aguilar part of that platoon is and has been trash. 

A guy like Shaw (and Thames) would be a far more valuable platoon or bench bat, if he cant regain a full time role as far as MLB roster construction. Especially as teams go to short benches these days. 

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15 minutes ago, knuckleheads said:

 

Having said that (and I agree with a lot you say) how long is a team expected to wait? Does Shaw get to continue this for a week, a month, all year? At some point a team does have to move on.  We are getting close to that and really this has nothing to do with Hiura's low walks and high k rate. They just want to get Shaw going again.  I think it's a mistake... 

 

On MLB radio this morning Phillips & Eduardo Perez were talking about this, and they said you give Shaw around 100 ABs to turn it around.  If he doesn't then you move on.  That's about a month if my math is right.  I'd imagine the leash will be shorter if he's hitting .150 in 2 weeks time and the Brewers will make the move back to Hiura.

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11 minutes ago, dzemens said:

 

Aguilar over the last 7 days is hitting .200 with 1 HR and 1 RBI. 14 days .083 1 HR 2 RBI, 28 days .209 1 HR 9 RBI. I havent watched Shaw a ton but what Ive seen, and scouting the stat line Aguilar shouldnt be part of any platoon at present and he cant play anything but 1B. The aguilar part of that platoon is and has been trash. 

A guy like Shaw (and Thames) would be a far more valuable platoon or bench bat, if he cant regain a full time role as far as MLB roster construction. Especially as teams go to short benches these days.  

Yeah I don't endorse cutting Shaw, but he has been terrible for a lot longer than Aguilar...look at Jesus last month instead of 7 days. Regardless I can see what Stearns is doing...not everyone will remain perfectly healthy moving forward. Braun is overdue for his yearly IL trip. Depth will be needed, but when the division comes down to a game again, they are costing themselves by allowing Shaw to replace Hiura.

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2 minutes ago, ST. STEVEN said:

Yeah I don't endorse cutting Shaw, but he has been terrible for a lot longer than Aguilar...look at Jesus last month instead of 7 days. Regardless I can see what Stearns is doing...not everyone will remain perfectly healthy moving forward. Braun is overdue for his yearly IL trip. Depth will be needed, but when the division comes down to a game again, they are costing themselves by allowing Shaw to replace Hiura.

 

I quoted Aguilars last 7 days, 2 weeks and 28 days. Hes been bad no matter what sample we're looking at this year. The long and the short I think we agree on the team is better with a productive Hiura and one of either Shaw/Aguilar waking up than it is with the two of them in the lineup. 

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29 minutes ago, dzemens said:

 

I quoted Aguilars last 7 days, 2 weeks and 28 days. Hes been bad no matter what sample we're looking at this year. The long and the short I think we agree on the team is better with a productive Hiura and one of either Shaw/Aguilar waking up than it is with the two of them in the lineup. 

The people who matter at this time disagree with we/you. 

We all agree Aguilar & Shaw have been dreadful this year for the Brewers and fantasy owners who drafted these two, while Hiura has been a pleasant surprise. I am shocked he was sent to the minors, but as I mention before I understand there reasoning for this move. Will it work we all shall see. I for one at this time hope Aguilar figures it out. 

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In an interview with Counsel, he basically focused on Shaw (not Aguilar) saying he's earned the right to try to keep his job.

Will be interesting to see if anything happens in < 3 weeks assuming Shaw does nothing at the plate.

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13 minutes ago, shakestreet said:

The people who matter at this time disagree with we/you. 

We all agree Aguilar & Shaw have been dreadful this year for the Brewers and fantasy owners who drafted these two, while Hiura has been a pleasant surprise. I am shocked he was sent to the minors, but as I mention before I understand there reasoning for this move. Will it work we all shall see. I for one at this time hope Aguilar figures it out. 

 

Cool...

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2 hours ago, dicka24 said:

 

On MLB radio this morning Phillips & Eduardo Perez were talking about this, and they said you give Shaw around 100 ABs to turn it around.  If he doesn't then you move on.  That's about a month if my math is right.  I'd imagine the leash will be shorter if he's hitting .150 in 2 weeks time and the Brewers will make the move back to Hiura.

 

A month and even 2 weeks is a long time when you consider Milwaukee and Chicago we’re tied after 162 games last week. Terrible move.

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3 hours ago, dicka24 said:

 

On MLB radio this morning Phillips & Eduardo Perez were talking about this, and they said you give Shaw around 100 ABs to turn it around.  If he doesn't then you move on.  That's about a month if my math is right.  I'd imagine the leash will be shorter if he's hitting .150 in 2 weeks time and the Brewers will make the move back to Hiura.

 

We just have to hope Travis Shaw summons his inner Chris Davis starting tonight. 

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It has to be pretty annoying as a competitor and athlete that you came up and more than held your own at the highest level of competition and have to get sent down so fat bastard Jesus and .150 Shaw get their reps in.  I’m all for giving guys rope but unfortunately the term wallypiped came around by guys getting hurt and someone better showing in their place and taking their spot.  His time will come but he doesn’t deserve to be eating cup of noodles in AAA anymore.  

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