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Kawhi Leonard 2019-2020 Outlook

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Ok, I am a Clipper fan for 40 years, but generally I am just a watch basketball when its on type of guy, dont really follow it that hardcore, know most of the key players and 2nd tier, so forgive me if this is ignorant

being a Clipper fan, this deal where they got George seems a lot like collusion (might not be the right term) but actively recruiting a guy who is under contract used to be a big punishment didnt it?

It seems like Kawhi made this all go down, and I dont understand how this is legal

 

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1 hour ago, Golden Spikes said:

Ok, I am a Clipper fan for 40 years, but generally I am just a watch basketball when its on type of guy, dont really follow it that hardcore, know most of the key players and 2nd tier, so forgive me if this is ignorant

being a Clipper fan, this deal where they got George seems a lot like collusion (might not be the right term) but actively recruiting a guy who is under contract used to be a big punishment didnt it?

It seems like Kawhi made this all go down, and I dont understand how this is legal

 

It’s not tampering if it’s not among rival execs.  George can demand a trade to the Clippers, it’s still a free country.  From there Sam Presti could either oblige or deny the request.  It was in his interest to oblige bc OKC is getting nowhere and they’re going to rebuild anyway.  The trade seemed sudden from our end but is possible it was in the works for a while.  OKC got the best offer possible considering the circumstance.  In fact, part of the reason why Presti got a good deal was bc the Clippers had to get it done.  It was a windmill slam high five your buddy thank the Lord type offer for Presti.  If there was an aggrieved party it would be OKC but as I said they got a good deal.  Win-win.  

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2 hours ago, Golden Spikes said:

Ok, I am a Clipper fan for 40 years

 

Bull f***ing s***. There's no such thing lol. But tell yourself whatever I guess.

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22 minutes ago, Trench Mob said:

 

Bull f***ing s***. There's no such thing lol. But tell yourself whatever I guess.

dude I grew up in San Diego, I am 45 years old, my first game was in 1979, and I remember asking my dad how a guy could be named World B Free.  Michael Cage was my first favorite player, Danny Manning is my favorite player of all-time

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49 minutes ago, StifleTower2 said:

It’s not tampering if it’s not among rival execs.  George can demand a trade to the Clippers, it’s still a free country.  From there Sam Presti could either oblige or deny the request.  It was in his interest to oblige bc OKC is getting nowhere and they’re going to rebuild anyway.  The trade seemed sudden from our end but is possible it was in the works for a while.  OKC got the best offer possible considering the circumstance.  In fact, part of the reason why Presti got a good deal was bc the Clippers had to get it done.  It was a windmill slam high five your buddy thank the Lord type offer for Presti.  If there was an aggrieved party it would be OKC but as I said they got a good deal.  Win-win.  

ty and ty for the right word, I couldnt think of tampering

 

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17 hours ago, StifleTower2 said:

It’s not tampering if it’s not among rival execs.  George can demand a trade to the Clippers, it’s still a free country.  From there Sam Presti could either oblige or deny the request.  It was in his interest to oblige bc OKC is getting nowhere and they’re going to rebuild anyway.  The trade seemed sudden from our end but is possible it was in the works for a while.  OKC got the best offer possible considering the circumstance.  In fact, part of the reason why Presti got a good deal was bc the Clippers had to get it done.  It was a windmill slam high five your buddy thank the Lord type offer for Presti.  If there was an aggrieved party it would be OKC but as I said they got a good deal.  Win-win.  

 

Actually, while I agree with your overall assessment of this trade, players are subject to tampering rules.  However the league has typically turned a blind eye into potential player tampering because 1.) it is difficult and expensive to enforce and 2.) half the league stars would be subject to tampering charges. I cannot think of an example where this has been enforced. Typically, the team the player is on is fined rather than the player.  Although, (maybe wink-wink), the league did send out a memo last season concerning LeBron's open recruiting efforts and subsequent statements.  However, the memo didn't mention him by name.

Where this may become a future issue is during the next CBA negotiations.  As it stands now, superstar players are becoming de facto general managers by using their status to completely change the course of a franchise and the direction of competition in the NBA overnight. One can't help but think this is not a positive trend for long-term viability of the league. However, as long as some semblance of competitive balances remains then the current system will probably not change.

Here is the language through which the NBA could impose sanctions against a player: Article 35 (Misconduct) of the Constitution and Article XIII (Circumvention) states that the NBA can penalize with suspension or a fine.

"The Commissioner shall have the power to suspend for a definite or indefinite period, or to impose a fine not exceeding $50,000, or inflict both such suspension and fine upon any Player who, in his opinion, (i) shall have made or caused to be made any statement having, or that was designed to have, an effect prejudicial or detrimental to the best interests of basketball or of the Association or of a Member."

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KL is the best player in the world right now,

Bron got served.  

Cant wait to draft KL and PG on my teams

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2 hours ago, DLG10 said:

KL is the best player in the world right now,

Bron got served.  

Cant wait to draft KL and PG on my teams

 

How did Bron get served? 

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Where does everyone feel he slots into the 1st round? I have a potential deal for him and I'm just curious on everyone's thoughts? The load management stuff scares me.

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2 hours ago, squidthunder said:

Where does everyone feel he slots into the 1st round? I have a potential deal for him and I'm just curious on everyone's thoughts? The load management stuff scares me.

He was 18th in total value over the season last year for 9-cat, and that was on 60 games played. 
I think most people are assuming he will play a few more games this year but still be given plenty of rest during the regular season.

So depending on how much more you think he will play it would seem safest to grab him only towards the end of the first round, if in the first at all.

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3 minutes ago, qpeeters said:

He was 18th in total value over the season last year for 9-cat, and that was on 60 games played. 
I think most people are assuming he will play a few more games this year but still be given plenty of rest during the regular season.

So depending on how much more you think he will play it would seem safest to grab him only towards the end of the first round, if in the first at all.

 

Gotcha - appreciate the info and feedback

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12 minutes ago, qpeeters said:

He was 18th in total value over the season last year for 9-cat, and that was on 60 games played. 
I think most people are assuming he will play a few more games this year but still be given plenty of rest during the regular season.

So depending on how much more you think he will play it would seem safest to grab him only towards the end of the first round, if in the first at all.

Agreed.  Also, depends on H2H or Roto.  His stat profile makes for an excellent roto player and although he’s 18th in total value I don’t mind taking him on the wheel of the first.  Get 60+ games of top 5-6 value out of him and someone can fill the rest.  Not to mention strategic rest days are becoming more common among top tier players so resting 20 games is going to be less of an outlier. 

 

Contrast that to H2H.  The fantasy playoff schedule hasn’t been released yet.  But if they get a poor schedule PLUS him missing 20 games then he almost becomes a DND.  Not literally but it would push him to like 3/4 round value and by that time I’d assume someone else would take him.  

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2 hours ago, terribleswedes said:

My view is he'll have less load management this year than last. He was coming off a lost season. 

He basically played full 82 games if you count playoffs.  Kawhi said that without load management he would not be playing in playoffs.

It seems like he is dealing with chronic issue. I expect load management to stay the same, 65 games max.

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Said today at the presser that he is fully healthy and the goal is to play a full season. Sounds like load management was a ploy to minimize the number of regular season games he suited up for a team he planned on leaving. 

 

I expect 70ish games this year. But I also anticipate diminished offensive numbers this year . Something like 24/6.5/2 and 1.5 steals on 47% shooting.

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Kawhi is my favorite player and can say what he wants, but they will likely just rename load management to sore ankle / hamstring etc.

He should still put up numbers, but his prove it year is over. This team doesn’t lack scoring threats, both established (PG, Lou) and young talent (Harrell, Zubac, Shamet). He wont have the same offensive load as he did with the Raps and can focus more on D + staying fresh.

Could possibly turn in one of his most efficient seasons or increase the volume of his 3PM

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I think the expectation this year is that he will play more than 65 games, barring any injuries (i.e. missing multiple games in a row, not just load management). I do think there will be some level of load management, but last year was probably a bit of an extreme given he missed pretty much the entire year before and was essentially still rehabbing that injury. Where he’s saying he’s fully healthy, my guess is that he’ll play around 70 games. 

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I love Kawhi  (we are the champions because of him), but he  is not the most durable player.  He had issues with right thigh for years, and  it seems to be chronic issue.   Just remember that he played more than 65 games only 3 times in his 8 seasons .    And after he played 74 games  in 2016-2017, next year he played 9.

If history teaches us anything, 60 to 65 games in regular season is the max

 

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I agree with @Gile Pile.  Kawhi ranked 18th in totals last season.  That's where I would take him.  No reason to believe he will play > 70 games.  If he fell to me at the wheel I'd feel compelled to take him though...maybe pair him with Embiid for maximum rollercoaster experience.

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I agree that he does have chronic injuries, which is why I’d still expect more rest days than the average superstar. But I do think that the extent that load management went to last year did have a lot to do with him being off most of the year before, and still not “fully healthy” to his standards. Heading into this year, it sounds like he’s as healthy as he’s ever going to be. So although they’ll still need to manage his games played, it shouldn’t have to be to the same extent that Toronto did in this past year. 

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That was before  game 4 in the Finals. 

It does not matter if Kawhi plays 60, 70 or 80 games, Clippers will make playoffs.

What matters for Clippers and Kawhi is playoffs. And that is why I think anything more than 65 games is pipe dream

 

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7 minutes ago, Gile Pile said:

 

That was before  game 4 in the Finals. 

It does not matter if Kawhi plays 60, 70 or 80 games, Clippers will make playoffs.

What matters for Clippers and Kawhi is playoffs. And that is why I think anything more than 65 games is pipe dream

 

I disagree with this - I dont think the Clippers are good enough to make the playoffs if Kawhi takes 20+ games off. The West is stacked and most teams feel like they are playoff material - so the incentive to tank for many of them is minimal.

 

The Clippers are going to need Kawhi and PG to play as much possible to stay in the hunt. No chance they repeat anything close to what the Raptors did last year without him (17-5). 

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