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Pascal Siakam 2019-2020 Outlook

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14 minutes ago, Gile Pile said:

What I meant is that user name "Stifle Tower2" user name might disappear because of the bet, not the person. I am sorry If I offended you

No problem.  My only reason in bringing you up was that he compared me to psychotic who I never supported.  The point being that’s it’s not really fair to compare me to someone who just bc we agreed about one point.  But disagreed wildly about approach. 

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4 hours ago, greatestmetfan said:

There's a lot to read in this thread when all we really need to say is pick him in the 4th -5th  2nd - 3rd round lol

 

There I fixed it for you.

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9 minutes ago, hipriest69 said:

 

 

There I fixed it for you.

 

4 hours ago, greatestmetfan said:

There's a lot to read in this thread when all we really need to say is pick him in the 4th -5th round lol

Now you know why there’s a lot of debate in this thread 😂

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I say Siakam should go in the 3rd-4th round this season. He will be a beast without Kawhi in town.

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A couple people on this forum first three picks is going to be:

Beal

Siakam

Mitchell Robinson

 

Good Luck!

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, RedDogNamedClippers said:

A couple people on this forum first three picks is going to be:

Beal

Siakam

Mitchell Robinson

 

Good Luck!

 

The funny thing is if they all hit you're looking at 3 potential top 15-20 players and a nice spot in the standings.  But you could say that about almost any trio.  

Edited by hipriest69

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3 hours ago, RedDogNamedClippers said:

A couple people on this forum first three picks is going to be:

Beal

Siakam

Mitchell Robinson

 

Good Luck!

 

Now if those are your 2nd, 3rd, and 4th picks that's pretty awesome

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On 7/29/2019 at 1:23 PM, hipriest69 said:

 

 

There I fixed it for you.

He's definitely not a second rounder unless it's a 14 team league but I could see 3rd rounder. So I'll change my statement to 3rd - 4th rounder. I'm not a Pascal hater by any means, I traded for him in my keeper league last year but it is ill advised to take him in the 2nd.

27 players I'm definitely taking ahead of him:

James Harden
Anthony Davis
Paul George
Stephen Curry
Karl-Anthony Towns
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Kawhi Leonard
Kyrie Irving
Joel Embiid
Nikola Vucevic
Damian Lillard
Nikola Jokic
Bradley Beal
Jimmy Butler
Rudy Gobert
Andre Drummond
Kemba Walker
Jrue Holiday
Clint Capela
LeBron James
LaMarcus Aldridge
Myles Turner
Mike Conley
Russell Westbrook
Deandre Ayton
Tobias Harris

Potentially taking ahead of him:

Kyle Lowry
Demar Derozan
Devin Booker
Lauri Markkanen
Otto Porter
Buddy Hield

Blake Griffin
Kevin Love
Ben Simmons
De'Aaron Fox
C.J. McCollum
D'Angelo Russell
Donovan Mitchell

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, greatestmetfan said:

He's definitely not a second rounder unless it's a 14 team league but I could see 3rd rounder. So I'll change my statement to 3rd - 4th rounder. I'm not a Pascal hater by any means, I traded for him in my keeper league last year but it is ill advised to take him in the 2nd.

27 players I'm definitely taking ahead of him:

James Harden
Anthony Davis
Paul George
Stephen Curry
Karl-Anthony Towns
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Kawhi Leonard
Kyrie Irving
Joel Embiid
Nikola Vucevic
Damian Lillard
Nikola Jokic
Bradley Beal
Jimmy Butler
Rudy Gobert
Andre Drummond
Kemba Walker
Jrue Holiday
Clint Capela
LeBron James
LaMarcus Aldridge
Myles Turner
Mike Conley
Russell Westbrook
Deandre Ayton
Tobias Harris

Potentially taking ahead of him:

Kyle Lowry
Demar Derozan
Devin Booker
Lauri Markkanen
Otto Porter
Buddy Hield

Blake Griffin
Kevin Love
Ben Simmons
De'Aaron Fox
C.J. McCollum
D'Angelo Russell
Donovan Mitchell

I agree on the 3rd round (been saying that all along). I'd pick him over Harris (he was ranked 69th in Philly last year, maybe can improve a little sans Jimmy) and as I have said Turner (can he produce 2.7 bpg again? If he doesn't he fals. Can he stay fit? He hasn't proven too durable) and I'd pick him ahead of all those guys you said maybe to. So I'd rank him about 25, which highlights his 2nd round upside and 4th-(maybe 5th) round floor. He has a higher floor than nearly all those maybe guys you mentioned due to injury proneness, inconsistencies and yet to fully prove it. All of those guys could in the right scenario make the top 25, but I see Siakam as a safer pick with similar upside.

Edited by Jake the snake
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On the fence regarding Siakam. Mid 3rd round seems like safest option. His blocks seem like they are not directly correlated to playing time which is the cat that probably prevents him from getting to the 2nd round. 

2016 15mins per game 0.8 blocks 

2017 21mins per game 0.5 blocks

2018 32mins per game 0.7

 

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Posted (edited)

Hence the question I have is does anyone feel like he can do a Durant (2 seasons ago) and make a conscious effort wrt blocks this season? He obv has the size and athleticism to do it. 

Edited by Pirate

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On 7/31/2019 at 5:45 PM, greatestmetfan said:

He's definitely not a second rounder unless it's a 14 team league but I could see 3rd rounder. So I'll change my statement to 3rd - 4th rounder. I'm not a Pascal hater by any means, I traded for him in my keeper league last year but it is ill advised to take him in the 2nd.

27 players I'm definitely taking ahead of him:

James Harden
Anthony Davis
Paul George
Stephen Curry
Karl-Anthony Towns
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Kawhi Leonard
Kyrie Irving
Joel Embiid
Nikola Vucevic
Damian Lillard
Nikola Jokic
Bradley Beal
Jimmy Butler
Rudy Gobert
Andre Drummond
Kemba Walker
Jrue Holiday
Clint Capela
LeBron James
LaMarcus Aldridge
Myles Turner
Mike Conley
Russell Westbrook
Deandre Ayton
Tobias Harris

Potentially taking ahead of him:

Kyle Lowry
Demar Derozan
Devin Booker
Lauri Markkanen
Otto Porter
Buddy Hield

Blake Griffin
Kevin Love
Ben Simmons
De'Aaron Fox
C.J. McCollum
D'Angelo Russell
Donovan Mitchell

Nice list, I dont see CP3 anywhere, I would definitely pick him over Siakam, especially in roto. Probably take Trae Young over Siakam too. I dont see much upside fantasy-wise for Siakam after Kawhi's depart because of his lack of stocks. No way Fox, Russell,Love,Griffin,Hield,Mitchell,Simmos and McCollum over Siakam tho.. In conclusion, Siakam is mid-late 3rd Rounder in my personal rankings.

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19 minutes ago, x_Nemesis_x said:

Nice list, I dont see CP3 anywhere, I would definitely pick him over Siakam, especially in roto. Probably take Trae Young over Siakam too. I dont see much upside fantasy-wise for Siakam after Kawhi's depart because of his lack of stocks. No way Fox, Russell,Love,Griffin,Hield,Mitchell,Simmos and McCollum over Siakam tho.. In conclusion, Siakam is mid-late 3rd Rounder in my personal rankings.

FWIW I have him around 28-30 in my personal rankings.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/31/2019 at 4:45 AM, greatestmetfan said:

He's definitely not a second rounder unless it's a 14 team league but I could see 3rd rounder. So I'll change my statement to 3rd - 4th rounder. I'm not a Pascal hater by any means, I traded for him in my keeper league last year but it is ill advised to take him in the 2nd.

27 players I'm definitely taking ahead of him:

James Harden
Anthony Davis
Paul George
Stephen Curry
Karl-Anthony Towns
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Kawhi Leonard
Kyrie Irving
Joel Embiid
Nikola Vucevic
Damian Lillard
Nikola Jokic
Bradley Beal
Jimmy Butler
Rudy Gobert
Andre Drummond
Kemba Walker
Jrue Holiday
Clint Capela
LeBron James
LaMarcus Aldridge
Myles Turner
Mike Conley
Russell Westbrook
Deandre Ayton
Tobias Harris

Potentially taking ahead of him:

Kyle Lowry
Demar Derozan
Devin Booker
Lauri Markkanen
Otto Porter
Buddy Hield

Blake Griffin
Kevin Love
Ben Simmons
De'Aaron Fox
C.J. McCollum
D'Angelo Russell
Donovan Mitchell

 

That's fair enough.  I think 3rd round is solid.  But on the list above I would take Siakam over Westbrook (avoid for obvious reasons, undraftable in roto), Tobias (who also isn't a great source of stocks either and is projected for this year to get less counting stats across the board in every category (other than 3's), but Tobias is also a great alternative pick if you miss out on Siakam and want something slightly similar, Conley (injury), Turner (value tied to elite blocks, everything else he does is borderline waiver wire), Aldridge (age-decline but solid and dependable, so there's a case there), Lowry (age/injury and poor FG, but also could make a case cuz he's awesome), Capela (punt points + FT, rebounds and blocks declining), Derozan (no stocks and 3's, way less FG), Booker (punt FG/TO type, but high ceiling), Lauri (need to punt FG or assists, no stocks, Siakam will probably score more, get similar but slightly less rebounds, more assists, better FG), OPJ (good steals but will not get the points + reb + assists and FG impact, negligible FT, plus less blocks), Buddy (will have more value if he can bring his steal rate back up, I might take him over Siakam depending on my team but it's close), Blake (injured), Love (garbage, taking him in the 3rd round is just burning a pick), Simmons (multi cat punt), CJ (solid pick but definitely nowhere near 3rd round that's a huge reach, more like top 60 so more like 5th round), D-Lo (you could make a case here), Fox elite steals and assists I would consider also, and Donny (could also make a case).  

 

I get the argument for and against all of these players tho.  I'll admit I was kind of teasing with the 2nd round stuff, but 3rd round is money. 4th is highway robbery.  Siakam to me is one of the most dependable players in the entire league - there's almost no gamble with him.  No long injury history, plays big minutes, plays every game, has a prime opportunity for a bigger role, won't get traded to a lesser role, and is still improving as a basketball player.  I would be shocked if he regressed in any category other than very slightly in FG (if he starts taking more 3's, which would be great for his value...1.5 threes this year is not out of the question).  He's probably better in roto so you can accumulate the across the board production and the year long elite FG impact, and the potential to be top 20 in totals (he was 26th in totals last year in 80 games played).  I will take that all day in the 3rd round.  I'm thinking at the moment 20 points 8 reb 4 assists 1.3 threes 1 steal 0.8 blocks 52% FG, 80% FT.     

 

Edited by hipriest69
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As for the CJ / Siakam debate (if there even is one), CJ is talented and a great player for sure.  But he finished 60 last year and 50 the year before in per game.  Assists have gone down every year and points have gone down each of the last 2 years.   What I do like is before last year he played in 80 games 3 straight years, and his FT is pretty great.  So maybe 5th round is good value, and if he has another hot shooting year like 2016 he's top 30-ish.  Most likely finishes around 50-60 range and plays in 70-80 games.  

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1 hour ago, hipriest69 said:

As for the CJ / Siakam debate (if there even is one), CJ is talented and a great player for sure.  But he finished 60 last year and 50 the year before in per game.  Assists have gone down every year and points have gone down each of the last 2 years.   What I do like is before last year he played in 80 games 3 straight years, and his FT is pretty great.  So maybe 5th round is good value, and if he has another hot shooting year like 2016 he's top 30-ish.  Most likely finishes around 50-60 range and plays in 70-80 games.  

Siakam is so far ahead of CJ it's remarkable CJ is even on the list.  CJ is JAG SG: high scoring/threes, nothing else.  Replicable af.

Of the ones on the "potential" list I like Lowry and Mitchell the most.  I think it's a big bounce back year for Lowry.  The standard thought is that Pascal will get Kawhi's usage.  The reality is that Lowry and Gasol had down years, I imagine they will rebound by scoring 5 more points each than last year.  Someone unforeseen on the wings or backcourt, maybe FVF, will absorb a lot of usage as well.  I also think with Kawhi gone they will score fewer points than last year as a team.  Pascal will take some usage and I can see him over 20ppg.  But I think it's fandom to assume he'll blast off like a rocketship.  I remember when Portland lost LMA and everyone assumed Lillard would score 30ppg+ but his FG% would dip below 40% because they didn't see anyone on the rest with name recognition.  The reality is that everyone in the NBA was a star in college or overseas and it doesn't matter what the fans know bc the coaches know their players.  Lillard marginally increased scoring and his FG% didn't dip bc that usage was absorbed throughout the team.  I think Lowry can be around 16/7/5 with three 3s, 1.5 steals.  41% FG/3 TO but high FT%.  He's beat up but he plays through injuries, should play 70+. 

 

With Conley I see a lot of pressure being taken off Mitchell and I think he can improve efficiency while hitting numbers of 25/5/5 with 2.5 threes and 1.5 steals 45/82/2.8 TO.  I don't know that these guys will finish ahead of Pascal in either per game or totals.  Though I like them as build-arounds as both Lowry and Mitchell will be top 20 in punt FG/TO.

 

This is H2H btw not roto.

 

Out of the other top 27 guys listed, I don't think Tobias or Conley will finish ahead of Siakam.  I think Tobias will have a slightly better year than he did in Philly last year bc Butler will be gone.  But I think he's a very similar, slightly worse player than Pascal.  I think Conley will still be solid in Utah but his numbers will decrease slightly: 18/6/3 with 2 threes and 1.3 steals.  45/85/1.7 TO.  He's more efficient than Lowry or Mitchell and has one of the best A/TO ratios in the game.  But ultimately I think it's easier to build around Lowry or Mitchell and punt FG/TO.    

 

I have some guys not listed ahead of him as well.

 

Been tweeking my draft order and Pascal is up to 27 but I don't think he'll go higher.  

 

 

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4 hours ago, StifleTower2 said:

Siakam is so far ahead of CJ it's remarkable CJ is even on the list.  CJ is JAG SG: high scoring/threes, nothing else.  Replicable af.

Of the ones on the "potential" list I like Lowry and Mitchell the most.  I think it's a big bounce back year for Lowry.  The standard thought is that Pascal will get Kawhi's usage.  The reality is that Lowry and Gasol had down years, I imagine they will rebound by scoring 5 more points each than last year.  Someone unforeseen on the wings or backcourt, maybe FVF, will absorb a lot of usage as well.  I also think with Kawhi gone they will score fewer points than last year as a team.  Pascal will take some usage and I can see him over 20ppg.  But I think it's fandom to assume he'll blast off like a rocketship.  I remember when Portland lost LMA and everyone assumed Lillard would score 30ppg+ but his FG% would dip below 40% because they didn't see anyone on the rest with name recognition.  The reality is that everyone in the NBA was a star in college or overseas and it doesn't matter what the fans know bc the coaches know their players.  Lillard marginally increased scoring and his FG% didn't dip bc that usage was absorbed throughout the team.  I think Lowry can be around 16/7/5 with three 3s, 1.5 steals.  41% FG/3 TO but high FT%.  He's beat up but he plays through injuries, should play 70+. 

 

With Conley I see a lot of pressure being taken off Mitchell and I think he can improve efficiency while hitting numbers of 25/5/5 with 2.5 threes and 1.5 steals 45/82/2.8 TO.  I don't know that these guys will finish ahead of Pascal in either per game or totals.  Though I like them as build-arounds as both Lowry and Mitchell will be top 20 in punt FG/TO.

 

This is H2H btw not roto.

 

Out of the other top 27 guys listed, I don't think Tobias or Conley will finish ahead of Siakam.  I think Tobias will have a slightly better year than he did in Philly last year bc Butler will be gone.  But I think he's a very similar, slightly worse player than Pascal.  I think Conley will still be solid in Utah but his numbers will decrease slightly: 18/6/3 with 2 threes and 1.3 steals.  45/85/1.7 TO.  He's more efficient than Lowry or Mitchell and has one of the best A/TO ratios in the game.  But ultimately I think it's easier to build around Lowry or Mitchell and punt FG/TO.    

 

I have some guys not listed ahead of him as well.

 

Been tweeking my draft order and Pascal is up to 27 but I don't think he'll go higher.  

 

 

 

I just found out Donnie shot something close to 50% on catch and shoot 3's post ASB last year...hopefully like you said, Conley limits his bad shots and turnovers...

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22 minutes ago, StifleTower2 said:

Who is better in dynasty: Tatum or Pascal?  And if Pascal, by how much?

They both good young players, so it's a tough pick, but I'd take Siakam over tatum by a little bit. He can only get better now without Kawhi.

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Just won him for 15% of my budget in an auction league for those wondering his expected cost.  Dynasty points league, but they changed the settings to be similar to 9 cat H2H.  I’m a little concerned about his value given the settings but the settings seem to value points and rebounds.  So for anyone who hasn’t drafted, you might be able to get him for $30, even in dynasty. 

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6 minutes ago, StifleTower2 said:

Just won him for 15% of my budget in an auction league for those wondering his expected cost.  Dynasty points league, but they changed the settings to be similar to 9 cat H2H.  I’m a little concerned about his value given the settings but the settings seem to value points and rebounds.  So for anyone who hasn’t drafted, you might be able to get him for $30, even in dynasty. 

 

yikes, $30...that's a pass for me.  I can get Eric Bledsoe and Larry Nance for that price

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2 minutes ago, Fantasyscrub said:

 

yikes, $30...that's a pass for me.  I can get Eric Bledsoe and Larry Nance for that price

I’m sure that’s true.  I don’t think Bledsoe has significant value in dynasty though and Nance is probably a $5 guy.  

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1 minute ago, StifleTower2 said:

I’m sure that’s true.  I don’t think Bledsoe has significant value in dynasty though and Nance is probably a $5 guy.  

 

I don't know much about dynasty but I'd be all over Nance for $5 in a h2h league.  He was a monster for me last year

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