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Trent Grisham 2019 Outlook

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11 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Yahoo has him listed correctly as Trent Grisham and has since I became aware of him a couple of days back.  There is no Trent Clark on Yahoo.

To say the least though Yahoo was a few years late on the name change and when I added him a week or two ago as an NA stash he was still Clark then.

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8 minutes ago, Maxcd99 said:

To say the least though Yahoo was a few years late on the name change and when I added him a week or two ago as an NA stash he was still Clark then.

Well if he only changed his name last year then that isn't "years" you have to admit.  And at least he plays for the Brewers unlike Justus Sheffield who Yahoo thought was still with the Yankees until recently.  Yahoo will now take a year to move Seth Beer to Arizona.  Just give them time.  😏

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1 hour ago, Maxcd99 said:

McNeil probably isn't a good comparison because McNeil was never a big prospect to begin with. Clark was drafted as a prep bat in the teens of the first round back in 2015 I believe. Had a great debut that season and was seen at the time as a potential draft steal since his hit tool seemingly was very developed. During his first full season on and later however the numbers dropped and most people questioned what happened. He always had the elite intangible tools like bat speed and was seemingly a great hitter. Don't know what it was but it all clicked and everything that scouts were praising him for in 2015 and high school started reappearing again. He's always had the strong projectile tools I guess it just looks like they disappeared for a while.

 

I'm slightly biased since I was huge on him in prospect drafts a few years ago but I love his profile. It's awesome to see him remerge after his prospect star faded for a while and he seems like a post hype prospect/sleeper if there ever was one, as opposed to guys like deGrom/McNeil/2016 and 2017 Duvall that never had hype to begin with.

I'd say Haniger/McNeil never had hype to begin with, they just grinded through the minors as older guys and just continued hitting and hit once in the majors. Hoskins was totally hyped and I don't think it's fair to say he came out of nowhere at all. Alvarez too, except he was lower on prospect lists due to (legitimate) defense concerns. Gurriel was a top international signee and it just took a bit for him to put it together. None of these guys ever had immense prospect hype, had their star fade, and then reemerge with hype before his debut like Clark is

 

Also I just realized I was subliminally saying Clark the whole time...everytime I say Clark I mean the same player as Trent Girsham.

 

You're really deep diving on the comp. 

These were non top 100 guys when called up, regardless of previous pedigree or hype. That's all I was shooting for here. Hoskins never cracked the top 100,  neither did Alvarez, and any hype that came with them came during the years of their call up, not years leading up to it. I know this because I rostered both (I rostered all these guys in my dynasty, actually) and wasn't able to generate any kind of market for them. 

 

My point was, and is, that plenty of not top 100 guys get the call while playing good ball and continue to do so. And while, yes, he was ranked, it's not like he was ranked as a consensus top 50 guy (only cracked BA's top 50, 83 on MLB, 99 on BP) so it's not like he was that hyped. And Haniger was a comp pick, so he didn't miss the first round selection by much. 

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Think I read one of this guys books...What a talented person.

Edit: Flew out first at bat. What a bust.

Edited by collucho
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1 hour ago, Golden Spikes said:

man I wanted Clark Grisham

where's the tylenol

 

tenor.gif

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2 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Yahoo has him listed correctly as Trent Grisham and has since I became aware of him a couple of days back.  There is no Trent Clark on Yahoo.

He was still Trent Clark up until either very late last night or this morning.  I picked him up last night before I went off for the night and he was still Clark, but then when I looked at my team early this morning to put him in they had changed him to Grisham.

In the end, obviously irrelevant, but at least in my Yahoo league he was still Trent Clark as of at least most of yesterday.

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2 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Well if he only changed his name last year then that isn't "years" you have to admit.  And at least he plays for the Brewers unlike Justus Sheffield who Yahoo thought was still with the Yankees until recently.  Yahoo will now take a year to move Seth Beer to Arizona.  Just give them time.  😏

His name was changed in November 2017. I overestimated it but it's still a bit overdue

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1 hour ago, sngehl01 said:

You're really deep diving on the comp. 

These were non top 100 guys when called up, regardless of previous pedigree or hype. That's all I was shooting for here. Hoskins never cracked the top 100,  neither did Alvarez, and any hype that came with them came during the years of their call up, not years leading up to it. I know this because I rostered both (I rostered all these guys in my dynasty, actually) and wasn't able to generate any kind of market for them. 

 

My point was, and is, that plenty of not top 100 guys get the call while playing good ball and continue to do so. And while, yes, he was ranked, it's not like he was ranked as a consensus top 50 guy (only cracked BA's top 50, 83 on MLB, 99 on BP) so it's not like he was that hyped. And Haniger was a comp pick, so he didn't miss the first round selection by much. 

I wasn't attacking you or anything I was just purely talking from a player comparison stand point. You're right in Hoskins wasn't ranked...that's totally on me and I guess the hype just built rather quickly on him before getting promoted. Looking back at it now he was old for most of the levels he hit well at. Alvarez definitely was a top 100 guy heading into this season and even made Baseball Prospectus' top 101 heading into 2018. Even then, any reluctance to list him was soley based on defensive concerns, which is why Beer is lowly ranked on prospect sites too.

 

If Trent Clark toiled in the minors for a few years and was in his mid-late 20s then those guys would make more sense as situational comparisons, but Grisham (had to force myself to type it there) is only 22. I wouldn't say he was a consensus top 50 guy a few years back but even based off what you posted he was definitely consensus top 100, and that's with taking into account only a half season of pro ball under his belt.

There's a big difference between being a bottom 10 or compensation pick 1st rounder and being in discussion for top 10 of the draft class. Looking at MLB and Fangraph's draft ranking, since those are the only free ones I can pull up, MLB.com ranked him 12th overall and fangraphs 7th. The position players sandwiched between him on Fangraph's ranking are Kyle Tucker and Andrew Benitendi. From my eyes, late first round picks are a gamble and have a decent rate of flaming out as starting players. If you can find any starting talent at all in the 2nd round or later then you've exceeded the expectations of most picks there. Guys like Grisham that have his star fade quickly but regain it before getting promoted do not appear often, as most just flame out entirely or emerge when they're 25-27 as a grinder through their minor league system.

 

My point is that Clark was a top of the draft talent in 2015 and substantiated it in his professional debut. He's 3 years younger than usual post hype guys used as comparison. There's legitimate upside with him even though he was written off earlier in his career and I can't wait to see how he makes a splash in the majors.

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0-3 with an RBI

I know it's his first game and all...but early assessment? Wish I could have watched his approach.

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40 minutes ago, lavaman said:

0-3 with an RBI

I know it's his first game and all...but early assessment? Wish I could have watched his approach.

 

he also lined out to center

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13 hours ago, Members_Only_76 said:

 

he also lined out to center

No K's is a good sign. 

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16 hours ago, Maxcd99 said:

I wasn't attacking you or anything I was just purely talking from a player comparison stand point. You're right in Hoskins wasn't ranked...that's totally on me and I guess the hype just built rather quickly on him before getting promoted. Looking back at it now he was old for most of the levels he hit well at. Alvarez definitely was a top 100 guy heading into this season and even made Baseball Prospectus' top 101 heading into 2018. Even then, any reluctance to list him was soley based on defensive concerns, which is why Beer is lowly ranked on prospect sites too.

  

If Trent Clark toiled in the minors for a few years and was in his mid-late 20s then those guys would make more sense as situational comparisons, but Grisham (had to force myself to type it there) is only 22. I wouldn't say he was a consensus top 50 guy a few years back but even based off what you posted he was definitely consensus top 100, and that's with taking into account only a half season of pro ball under his belt.

 There's a big difference between being a bottom 10 or compensation pick 1st rounder and being in discussion for top 10 of the draft class. Looking at MLB and Fangraph's draft ranking, since those are the only free ones I can pull up, MLB.com ranked him 12th overall and fangraphs 7th. The position players sandwiched between him on Fangraph's ranking are Kyle Tucker and Andrew Benitendi. From my eyes, late first round picks are a gamble and have a decent rate of flaming out as starting players. If you can find any starting talent at all in the 2nd round or later then you've exceeded the expectations of most picks there. Guys like Grisham that have his star fade quickly but regain it before getting promoted do not appear often, as most just flame out entirely or emerge when they're 25-27 as a grinder through their minor league system.

 

My point is that Clark was a top of the draft talent in 2015 and substantiated it in his professional debut. He's 3 years younger than usual post hype guys used as comparison. There's legitimate upside with him even though he was written off earlier in his career and I can't wait to see how he makes a splash in the majors.

I didn't take it as an attack. I was simply saying I was making a high level comp to guys who were relatively unheralded the year they were called up (at the beginning of the season at least) but became solid fantasy contributors. Previous expectations really aren't a consideration for me, as those are fairly arbitrary. 

 

Yes, Grisham was, at one point, more highly regarded as a prospect than many of those guys. However, that star dimmed quickly. I was only mentioning guys who are pretty low key prospect adds who turn out to be highly valuable. That's all. It's a high level comp. 

 

I don't think it's fair to call him a post hype guy, either. Like you said, he's only 22. Too many guys expect too much of a linear progression with ballplayers, but that's just not how it works. 

 

I like Grisham, and I think he's gonna be a good ballplayer. Even when he was bad in the minors, there were some really positive signs still. He was still stealing bases, walking a ton, and not striking out a lot. The power showing back up is very encouraging. 

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16 hours ago, lavaman said:

0-3 with an RBI

I know it's his first game and all...but early assessment? Wish I could have watched his approach.

On pace for 162 RBI's! Batting average seems suspect though..

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Out of the lineup today. It's too bad...was hoping to see more than one game before being benched. Hopefully in lineup tomorrow.

Edited by PhilaFanBoy

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So annoying he’s not in there against the lefty.  Looking at his highlights, lefties didn’t seem to be an issue for him.  Anyone have his splits?

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1 hour ago, PhilaFanBoy said:

Out of the lineup today. It's too bad...was hoping to see more than one game before being benched. Hopefully in lineup tomorrow.

 

even with aguilar gone they still have to fit him into one of four spots along with yelich / cain / braun / thames, so he's probably not gonna be an everyday guy. in a vacuum you can say just make thames / braun a platoon, but ryan braun is ryan braun so it's hard to see his PT being reduced quite that much. 

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20 minutes ago, FUM said:

So annoying he’s not in there against the lefty.  Looking at his highlights, lefties didn’t seem to be an issue for him.  Anyone have his splits?

For this season:

40 ABs in AAA .325/.400/.650 only 5 Ks

69 ABs in AA .290.402.551

Also 8 HRs on the year v LH...there is really no reason he needs more than an occasional rest day against them. Problem is that Cain and Yeli seldom gets days off. They prob need to move Braun to 1B and play him 4 times a week and let Thames spell him allowing Grisham to get the near full-time work he should get...otherwise it was pointless to bring up his smoking hot bat. Will CC do it? I kinda doubt it...

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There's really no excuse why he's not in the lineup today.  They are doing their best Cash/Rays impersonation by playing two catchers rather than their young player that should be getting playing time.  I could understand not having Grandal catch today, but then he should have the day off since every game this series is a day game.  Also, they said Braun would be playing 1B sometimes in order to get Grisham in the lineup.  Oops, I guess they lied since this was the perfect opportunity against a lefty (no Thames).  Really frustrating...

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Stationed on the pine...again, not that I am surprised but still a little pissed for the kid. Council is not to be trusted.

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Managers aren't goi going to completely abandon a veteran when a rookie comes up. It'll always be a platoon to start. Then whomever is the most deserving will eventually get the role full time. Patience. 

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1 hour ago, Kaii23 said:

Managers aren't goi going to completely abandon a veteran when a rookie comes up. It'll always be a platoon to start. Then whomever is the most deserving will eventually get the role full time. Patience. 

It's not a platoon.  They have faced two lefties in a row, which honestly is the only clear path for playing time for Grisham right now.  That is supposed to allow Braun to shift to 1B, and then have Grisham play in the OF.  That is even what the team basically said could happen when they announced the call-up.  He can't earn the role if he never plays.

This has nothing to do with my frustrations with Counsell, as obviously this was not the team's idea or Grisham would still be in AAA, but Grandal has flat out sucked for an extended period and obviously needs a break.  Not just from behind the plate, but a legit break.

Grisham seems like he will only play if he wants to give Braun a day off since Thames is their 1B vs. RHP.  There's no clear path to playing time vs. RHP with Thames at 1B and Braun, Cain, and Yelich in the OF.  Again, the path to playing time right now if vs. LHP, but he'd rather start 2 catchers two days in a row than play Grisham.

This makes no sense, and if I was the GM, I would tell Counsell to play him or go.  Like I already said, I highly doubt this was in the team's plans at all when they called him up, as it does nothing good for his development to sit the bench.  I'd actually be shocked if he even pinch it yet again today.  It has nothing to do with what you said, as like I already said, this is not a platoon situation nor is it sticking by a veteran (1B is wide open vs. LHP, and Grandal badly needs a break instead of playing there).  He's not sticking by a veteran.  He's been a complete and utter moron.

Edited by KilloWertz
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6 hours ago, KilloWertz said:

This makes no sense, and if I was the GM, I would tell Counsell to play him or go. He's been a complete and utter moron.

 

Counsell needs counseling. I vote for you to be his counselor. 

 

😉

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12 hours ago, Members_Only_76 said:

 

Counsell needs counseling. I vote for you to be his counselor. 

 

😉

He sure needs something since this is just ridiculous.  We'll see what happens today I suppose, although I'm not optimistic given it's against a righty.

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