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Lamont Sanford

Shut Down Corners

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22 minutes ago, 16kredit said:

I think this is overanalyzing things, if you factor in CBs, you have to start tracking if they are always defending the same side of the field

And if your WR moves around a ton 

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IMO the only shutdown CB right now is Jalen Ramsey and hes not even playing. Id stop overthinking this. Also keep in mind in today's NFL its much harder to be a shutdown corner.

Actually, I think Gilmore is as well. So the list is 2

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1 minute ago, shakestreet said:

They are sometimes. But using Mike Evans as an example just doesn’t cut since he has had only one decent game out of five. 

I guess Evans just got lucky in that “decent” game in which he went 8/190/3?

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11 minutes ago, Lamont Sanford said:

Good points being made, but either these guys are “shut down corners” or they aren’t.

I don't think you can just look at it like that in a vacuum.

Stephon Gilmore was dog doo early on last year but now he's a tough matchup.

Xavien Howard might be tough if the Dolphins had a prayer of getting to the QB.

Bradberry was tough against Hopkins but let Chark ball out apparently because Hopkins has the black plague this year and isn't telling anyone.

Lattimore has been tough in some game but some players have gotten the best of him.  It hurt Evans because Jameis had an alternative in Godwin with a much better matchup.

If you want to make it simple, just play your best recievers and hope for the best.  Some guys are so good or are in such a good situation they can beat anyone.  But you might get burned with this if you aren't digging into the specific situation.  You might get burned either way, that's fake football.

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37 minutes ago, Novaray said:

Whoever is covering Mike Evans

This x1000 

 

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As a corollary to this (great thread btw), facing a shutdown corner may make the #2 WR on that team a stronger play, as they will get more targets.  Mike Williams got 13 targets yesterday because Keenan Allen was facing Chris Harris and only got 6 targets. 

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3 minutes ago, JE7HorseGod said:

I don't think you can just look at it like that in a vacuum.

Stephon Gilmore was dog doo early on last year before the trade to the Patriots but now he's a tough matchup.

Xavien Howard might be tough if the Dolphins had a prayer of getting to the QB.

Bradberry was tough against Hopkins but let Chark ball out apparently because Hopkins has the black plague this year and isn't telling anyone.

Lattimore has been tough in some game but some players have gotten the best of him.  It hurt Evans because Jameis had an alternative in Godwin with a much better matchup.

If you want to make it simple, just play your best recievers and hope for the best.  Some guys are so good or are in such a good situation they can beat anyone.  But you might get burned with this if you aren't digging into the specific situation.  You might get burned either way, that's fake football.

All true. Once again, I’m falling into the trap of thinking fantasy football makes sense. You could spend all week analyzing matchups and you’re really no better off than a coin flipping doofus. 

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I think prime Revis was the last time I paid attention to CBs. The gane has changed. Im not sure shut down corner is even a thing anymore.

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6 minutes ago, yanksman said:

IMO the only shutdown CB right now is Jalen Ramsey and hes not even playing. Id stop overthinking this. Also keep in mind in today's NFL its much harder to be a shutdown corner.

Actually, I think Gilmore is as well. So the list is 2

yep, Ramsey the only cb I'll consider shutdown. Course still might be situation when I'm starting my guys against Ramsey. Everyone else I'm always starting my guys. No need over analyze it. Alot of these guys they call shutdown corners nowadays have one or 2 good seasons and then they go down hill quick to barely above avg.

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16 minutes ago, Brownsfan74 said:

As a corollary to this (great thread btw), facing a shutdown corner may make the #2 WR on that team a stronger play, as they will get more targets.  Mike Williams got 13 targets yesterday because Keenan Allen was facing Chris Harris and only got 6 targets. 

Same with Trufant and Hopkins with Fuller having a field day against the #2 CB. 

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52 minutes ago, Eaglesflyhigh11 said:

No respect. He's so awesome.

I posted this in the Cooper thread but so far Alexander has played A-rob, Sanders, Sutton, Jeffery and the Vikings who have good WRs but refuse to throw the ball. So the question should be is Alexander a shutdown CB or has the receivers he’s faced been not so good.

I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle as cooper absolutely destroyed him yesterday and should have had another 80 yard TD on him but stumbled around midfield and it went for a 30 yard catch instead. They left him 1-1 and he responded with 11-226 so there is no way he joins the list of shutdown CBs.
I would go with Gilmore, Ramsey and Harris vs Slot as the only true shutdown options and then in a tier below I would put White, Bradberry and Humphries.

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1 hour ago, yanksman said:

IMO the only shutdown CB right now is Jalen Ramsey and hes not even playing. Id stop overthinking this. Also keep in mind in today's NFL its much harder to be a shutdown corner.

Actually, I think Gilmore is as well. So the list is 2

 

1 hour ago, dmb3684 said:

I think prime Revis was the last time I paid attention to CBs. The gane has changed. Im not sure shut down corner is even a thing anymore.

This is how I feel. There really aren't that many true shutdown CB's that completely erase a team's #1 WR every week. A lot of the "shutdown" corners out there are getting safety help to double blanket a team's #1 option. And sometimes it just comes down to a team's gameplan.

I'd probably add Patrick Peterson to the list, because outside of one season where they were playing him in zone he tends to follow a receiver around everywhere. He has been burned though.

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1 hour ago, MadMaxMariota said:

Wasn't Lattimore just torched by Lockett a couple of weeks back and also by Hopkins in week 1? So yeah, I don't think benching your studs is a good idea at all. You'll just miss out on some big weeks if you try to get too cute like that. 

Hopkins got to him some, but it was pretty tight coverage and just some great ball placement too. Lockett was mostly destroying the saints outta the slot--not where Lattimore travels, that is on their nickel guy and much of that was after the game was decided too. Lattimore has often wrecked Evans, he has had Evans so frustrated I remember Evans leaving the bench to completely cheap shot him a few years ago. Lattimore, like many great CBs will cheat sometimes and get burned, but when he stays within the scheme he can erase really great WRs too.

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You might end up missing out on big performances more than you are avoiding duds if you end up over-thinking situations like these. 

 

Anyone that listened to RW forums this week about matchup advice, would have sat Chark vs Bradberry, and Jacobs vs Chicago with how certain posters were about the dreaded matchups, and you would have missed out on 25+ pts from either player. Don't over-think it.

 

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On a fantasy team I’m never going to consider the matchup if an elite WR.

Im only taking that into consideration for DFS leagues.

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Friendly reminder that Patrick Peterson will return soon after his 6 game suspension. Will be a huge upgrade for the Cardinals secondary. Rookie 2nd rounder Byron Murphy is their #1 CB right now and held up reasonably well. All their other CBs are garbage. Murphy moving down to #2 CB will only help, as Peterson should resume what he has done his whole career: travelling with #1 WRs and shutting them down. Also Vance Joseph likes a blitz heavy man-to-man defense, but had to run more zone coverage due to their lack of talent. This will change upon Peterson's return. And don't forget about Robert Alford who got injured in preseason and will return around weeks 8-10. Alford isn't great by any means but a solid #3 CB.

Generally speaking, Patrick Peterson has always been one of the most overlooked shutdown CBs in the NFL. His stats are lacking because QBs have always avoided him and the Cardinals could never find a legit #2 CB, so WR2s were feasting on them for years.

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1 hour ago, SkinsChargersFan said:

Josh Norman.

 

There were one or two years when Josh Norman was about as dominant a player as there was.  I cringed if one of my guys went up against him.  But those days are long gone, and I really don't avoid anyone these days.

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55 minutes ago, KennyWoo said:

 

There were one or two years when Josh Norman was about as dominant a player as there was.  I cringed if one of my guys went up against him.  But those days are long gone, and I really don't avoid anyone these days.

 

I always viewed Norman in his prime as more of a playmaker, and less of a shutdown corner.  

Regardless, he’s been absolutely awful since the start of last season.  I was just being sarcastic because as a Redskins fan, he’s painful to watch nowadays.

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I think it's important to remember that these elite DBs can have bad games too, just like our stud WRs. Evans has gotten the better of Lattimore in the past, but he was dominated this past weekend. It happens. There are so many factors that can change week to week and matchup to matchup that I'm not sure it's worth putting too much stock into it.

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4 hours ago, 904kc said:

Start your studs. Amari Cooper went OFF on PFF's highest graded corner, Jaire Alexander. Some other examples out there too. 

 

Yup - glad I didn't get too cute by benching Amari.  GB lowest points allowed to WRs prior to Sunday.

On the general thread topic, great topic and one I struggle with frequently.  I think the solution is to still ASYS, just temper expectations.  I can live with a lower score from my stud WR (like Keenan Allen this week), but would be seriously pissed at myself if said stud went off on my bench because I got too cute.  Another factor IMO is how many other threats the offense has.  It probably should have been predictable to me that the Broncos were going to key in on Allen with Harris so good at playing the slot and the Chargers having so many other guys either out or banged up.  But Gallup, Cobb, Witten, and Zeke all being there for Dak made it much harder for GB to concentrate on stopping Cooper.

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You get to be called a shutdown CB when you have an island named after you.  Ramsey is probably the closest in the game right now though.

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