MilesBridgesBetterThanZion

Devonte' Graham 2019-2020 Outlook

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Game tying layup with 1sec left.

12/7/12/1stl/2triples so far.

Edited by ovofnd

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Teams starting to use trap defense and double team against this kid since the start of December. See the games, you'll notice.

 

For the last 9 games he's going .327 FG / .370 3P / .755 FT... literally the worst ratios from a starting guard in the NBA during that period

 

19.8 ppg / 6.7 apg / 3.9 rpg... counting stats are 'decent' but the ratios... ugh...

 

Heavily relies on his 3 pointers since he does not have ANY kind of mid-range game or driving game.

Eye test does NOT suggest that the kid is an effective defender.

HIs assists are still up there, but most of them are due to his team completely relying on him on almost every situation.

(Personally, I think Rozier is a better facilitator than Graham on certain situations.)

 

About the 'early-round next year' discussions... Nope, never. I think I'll pass.

Edited by jhsong916

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Wow, harsh. Dude was a waiver wire pickup for 90% of us and we’re going ham on him.

15/9/13/1stl/3triples is still great. Punt FG if you can’t stomach the percentages.

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Anybody complaining about a wire pickup that is producing the value this kid is producing should never play fantasy again lol, or stick to 4-team leagues.

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I own Graham in about a quarter of my leagues, and he was obviously a WW pickup in all of them.  He's an awesome pickup and might be the best of the year so far, but percentages are that weird thing that people are in the clear to complain about imo.  Imagine you have a team that's not punting fg and you pick this guy up as a streamer in the first week of the season.  Fast forward to today and the dude is way too good to drop, but semi-often loses you the category.  

I feel like that's a valid thing to bitch about on on the internet.  It's not like you drafted Drummond and now are complaining that you can't win FT%.  But yeah, it's probably been time to start trying to shop him if you aren't punting FG%.  If you have a team that you're counting on winning FG%, god help you.

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5 minutes ago, Tom Chambers said:

I own Graham in about a quarter of my leagues, and he was obviously a WW pickup in all of them.  He's an awesome pickup and might be the best of the year so far, but percentages are that weird thing that people are in the clear to complain about imo.  Imagine you have a team that's not punting fg and you pick this guy up as a streamer in the first week of the season.  Fast forward to today and the dude is way too good to drop, but semi-often loses you the category.  

I feel like that's a valid thing to bitch about on on the internet.  It's not like you drafted Drummond and now are complaining that you can't win FT%.  But yeah, it's probably been time to start trying to shop him if you aren't punting FG%.  If you have a team that you're counting on winning FG%, god help you.


This is a fair assessment that I can get behind. 

I was one of the guys who didn’t punt FG, but resigned to the fact that having Devonte and D’Lo would ensure that I’m always near the bottom. 

I can’t trade them either — we have this rule this season where you can only trade once with each manager, and I’ve made trades with everyone EXCEPT the guy not punting FG, rendering Devonte untradeable 😂

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1 minute ago, ovofnd said:


This is a fair assessment that I can get behind. 

I was one of the guys who didn’t punt FG, but resigned to the fact that having Devonte and D’Lo would ensure that I’m always near the bottom. 

I can’t trade them either — we have this rule this season where you can only trade once with each manager, and I’ve made trades with everyone EXCEPT the guy not punting FG, rendering Devonte untradeable 😂

 

If you were up a considerable amount in 3's, you could've just bench him while you let your bigs repair the FG% then go back to the well. But to each their own.

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Part of this forum is a ''fantasy' basketball forum,' and the another part of this forum is a 'fantasy 'basketball' forum.'

 

Being satisfied with the value already provided by a WW pickup is one part of the story,

Predicting ROS value based on his real-life play is another.

Edited by jhsong916

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2 minutes ago, jhsong916 said:

Part of this forum is a ''fantasy' basketball forum,' and the another part of this forum is a 'fantasy 'basketball' forum.'

 

Sounds like the Carmelo thread thinking he's another Jonathan Isaac. Eventually it'll be a hangover then sobering up.

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2 hours ago, stay_woke said:

Points league God. I'll be hoping to draft him in the 3rd round next year. Absolutely love this kid

 

LFor sure! In points leagues percentages dont mean squat!(except for that you get -.5 for every FT missed and +.5 for every 3pm) so keep firing away don't listen to the haters here. 

 

And tonight, despite a poor shooting night, he damn near put up a TD. Love him

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4 hours ago, ItzJaBoiSam said:

Anybody complaining about a wire pickup that is producing the value this kid is producing should never play fantasy again lol, or stick to 4-team leagues.

Even at 4 team leagues I'm happy with his production ~

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The guys clearly not the WW pickup of the year. Richuan Holmes is and its not even close. Pretty sure no one drafted him either as Dedmon and Bagley were the listed starters and were expected to have solid seasons, plus get the majority of the minutes.

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17 minutes ago, jay_00 said:

The guys clearly not the WW pickup of the year. Richuan Holmes is and its not even close. Pretty sure no one drafted him either as Dedmon and Bagley were the listed starters and were expected to have solid seasons, plus get the majority of the minutes.

Yeah... Na mate 

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25 minutes ago, jay_00 said:

The guys clearly not the WW pickup of the year. Richuan Holmes is and its not even close. Pretty sure no one drafted him either as Dedmon and Bagley were the listed starters and were expected to have solid seasons, plus get the majority of the minutes.

 

Richaun Holmes is averaging 13.2 / 9.2 / 1 / 1.2 / 1.4 on 66% FG as and 83% FT in 25 games (30 min on average). Those are wonderful numbers, but people ALWAYS knew Richaun Holmes had upside if he got a stable role. He's been a talked about per-minute stud nearly every year he's been in the league when he got a chance. The idea that you're trying to apply to Graham and not Holmes is completely backwards. Holmes was a known commodity, people thought Graham was another Charlotte scrub, he averaged 20% in his rookie year on terrible numbers.

Graham has made a leap from the biggest unknown piece of crap rookie to most improved, Richaun didn't need to make that kind of jump, he just needed minutes. Holmes went from per minute stud to.... per minute stud?

 

Edited by Lifschitz
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If you were even watching last year, you would have known that Graham wasn't an 'unknown piece of crap rookie'.

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25 minutes ago, perkinsfor3 said:

If you were even watching last year, you would have known that Graham wasn't an 'unknown piece of crap rookie'.


If I was watching a 34 percent shooter, 28 percent from three? He was bad, and not to appeal to bandwagon but that was the wide consensus. It’s why everyone was shocked at how well he’s playing this year, it’s a huge jump for a guy who was by all means bad last year. 
 

he averaged 4.7 points in 14 minutes, in fact he didn’t have a single successful month last season in his splits, he was that bad. His best month was 44 percent in 13 minutes and the overall line is nothing to write home about, he shot 33 percent or below the final 4 months of the season. 
 

granted, he was never going to get a lot of minutes with kemba there, but Charlotte didn’t even care to develop him next to kemba, which says a lot considering just how bad and talent starved Charlotte was. 
 

Borrego cited his commitment to working insanely hard in the offseason for why they wanted to give him a shot at playing time, and it paid off, that’s what most improved constitutes, it’s literally in the name of the award.

Edited by Lifschitz

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2 hours ago, Lifschitz said:

 

Richaun Holmes is averaging 13.2 / 9.2 / 1 / 1.2 / 1.4 on 66% FG as and 83% FT in 25 games (30 min on average). Those are wonderful numbers, but people ALWAYS knew Richaun Holmes had upside if he got a stable role. He's been a talked about per-minute stud nearly every year he's been in the league when he got a chance. The idea that you're trying to apply to Graham and not Holmes is completely backwards. Holmes was a known commodity, people thought Graham was another Charlotte scrub, he averaged 20% in his rookie year on terrible numbers.

Graham has made a leap from the biggest unknown piece of crap rookie to most improved, Richaun didn't need to make that kind of jump, he just needed minutes. Holmes went from per minute stud to.... per minute stud?

 

 

Yeah but they were both waiver wire pickups anyway. it doesn't matter if it was known Holmes would be valuable with many minutes because nobody expected many minutes and nobody drafted him. So Holmes is the pickup of the year so far. The guy is ranked 24th in 9 cat and doesn't force you in some punt scenario. 

Edited by RipCity0

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5 hours ago, jay_00 said:

The guys clearly not the WW pickup of the year. Richuan Holmes is and its not even close. Pretty sure no one drafted him either as Dedmon and Bagley were the listed starters and were expected to have solid seasons, plus get the majority of the minutes.


Nah.

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5 hours ago, RipCity0 said:

 

Yeah but they were both waiver wire pickups anyway. it doesn't matter if it was known Holmes would be valuable with many minutes because nobody expected many minutes and nobody drafted him. So Holmes is the pickup of the year so far. The guy is ranked 24th in 9 cat and doesn't force you in some punt scenario. 


They’re both great, but Graham’s value also jumps up quite a bit in 8 cat as he’s only a one category punt and is among the league leaders in assists and threes. Hard to find PGs like that and he’s been a top 35 play all year in 9 cat despite the poor shooting.

Naturally I’m biased, I own graham. Richaun has no weaknesses, but were also looking at his rank based on a huge surge in value on the back of some insane lines.

look at his November split, almost equal minutes and he was at 11 / 9 and .8 steals and 1.5 blocks. solid numbers but no one was making the case that he was WW pickup of the year at that point. 

Hes had 3 huge lines in a row and now we’re having this debate, but graham has been doing this all year with big pop off lines. 
 

 

Edited by Lifschitz

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8 minutes ago, Lifschitz said:


They’re both great, but Graham’s value also jumps up quite a bit in 8 cat as he’s only a one category punt and is among the league leaders in assists and threes. Hard to find PGs like that and he’s been a top 35 play all year in 9 cat despite the poor shooting.

 

This. Graham has potentially a bigger impact if you account the specific needs - I'd think he is top 15 if you punt fg and to.

Holmes is highly ranked due to low TO and high %s. The counting stats are weaker compared to Graham.

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28 minutes ago, gooseball said:

This. Graham has potentially a bigger impact if you account the specific needs - I'd think he is top 15 if you punt fg and to.

Holmes is highly ranked due to low TO and high %s. The counting stats are weaker compared to Graham.

This is not true. Holmes is very strong in stocks where Graham sucks as well. If you punt turnovers Holmes is still ranked higher. They are both great but z values favour Holmes clearly. Now saying that if you punt this and that etc yes you can make him look better than Holmes, but fg% is not turnovers, it is very important. Funny thing Holmes is a bigger positive in ft% as well 😁

Edited by RipCity0
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