kmoore1521

John Collins 2019-2020 Outlook

Recommended Posts

If the guy thinks he has a strong enough team to take the Collins suspension, then doing a CJ for Collins trade is a no brainer. At the end of the day, he returns around Christmas and will do more for his team than CJ will be able to. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just my 2 cents, but I think John Collins has a more compelling case for a reduction than Ayton. Ayton clearly tried to flush something out of his system by taking the diuretic, thus eliminating any possibility that he had taken an underlying substance accidentally (the question as to whether he took the diuretic accidentally remains open ended but is highly implausible). 

 

John Collins is either very brazen, very stupid, or sincerely didnt know that the supplements he was taking were laced with the prohibited substance. If the "unintentional digestion" exception in the CBA is to have any meaning, it should be applied in cases like this. Otherwise it's an empty phrase that should be done away with altogether.  I find it hard to believe a player would knowingly take a PED and at the very least not try to cover it up. I think it is more likely that the lightly regulated supplement industry might be giving their products an extra boost by adding PEDs for competitive advantage.

 

Edit: I realize however, that to maintain the integrity of the system Collins should have the onus of providing evidence that raises some doubt that he took the PEDs intentionally (such as giving copies of the bottle and corresponding ingredients list that the supplements came in). Otherwise players can just take PEDs and claim unintentional digestion; which would undermine the entire drug testing program of the NBA.

 

That's just my take anyways.I find Ayton's case to be much less sympathetic (but that could be bias coming from someone who has JC on their team).

Edited by justaguy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, justaguy said:

Just my 2 cents, but I think John Collins has a more compelling case for a reduction than Ayton. Ayton clearly tried to flush something out of his system by taking the diuretic, thus eliminating any possibility that he had taken an underlying substance accidentally (the question as to whether he took the diuretic accidentally remains open ended but is highly implausible). 

 

John Collins is either very brazen, very stupid, or sincerely didnt know that the supplements he was taking were laced with the prohibited substance. If the "unintentional digestion" exception in the CBA is to have any meaning, it should be applied in cases like this. Otherwise it's an empty phrase that should be done away with altogether.  I find it hard to believe a player would knowingly take a PED and at the very least not try to cover it up. I think it is more likely that the lightly regulated supplement industry might be giving their products an extra boost by adding PEDs for competitive advantage.

 

Edit: I realize however, that to maintain the integrity of the system Collins should have the onus of providing evidence that raises some doubt that he took the PEDs intentionally (such as giving copies of the bottle and corresponding ingredients list that the supplements came in). Otherwise players can just take PEDs and claim unintentional digestion; which would undermine the entire drug testing program of the NBA.

 

That's just my take anyways.I find Ayton's case to be much less sympathetic (but that could be bias coming from someone who has JC on their team).

Lol there's no way Collins would get a reduction if they actually found steroids in his system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, yeet said:

Lol there's no way Collins would get a reduction if they actually found steroids in his system.

If he could prove it was unintentional, then why not? It doesnt appear as though the NBA treats drug offenses as an absolute liability offense - there seems to be some requirement of intent, otherwise why have the "unintentional digestion " exception at all? Admittedly I have not read the CBA and the context around the exception, but based off my initial reading of it, Collins does have a more compelling case for a reduction than Ayton. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, justaguy said:

If he could prove it was unintentional, then why not? It doesnt appear as though the NBA treats drug offenses as an absolute liability offense - there seems to be some requirement of intent, otherwise why have the "unintentional digestion " exception at all? Admittedly I have not read the CBA and the context around the exception, but based off my initial reading of it, Collins does have a more compelling case for a reduction than Ayton. 

Wouldn't it be easier for Ayton to say he accidentally ingested diuretics than Collins saying he accidentally injected growth hormones? Diuretics are found in foods like coffee, cranberries, etc.

Edited by yeet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Bringthesonicsback said:

you're contradicting yourself right and left

No I’m not.  You just have no head for nuance.  You need people to scream at the tops of their lungs at you because that’s what you’re used to from the internet. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, yeet said:

You're gonna be without him for 8 matchups which is more than a third of the fantasy regular season

The typical team has 13 players so 1 player is roughly 8%.  You’re missing him for a third of the fantasy regular season, ok.  So that’s 3% of your total value for the season.  It’s actually less than that because sometimes you have full slates and need to sit someone.  Not to mention presumably he will play during the playoffs when it matters most. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, yeet said:

Wouldn't it be easier for Ayton to say he accidentally ingested diuretics than Collins saying he accidentally injected growth hormones? Diuretics are found in foods like coffee, cranberries, etc.

I dont think it was just any diuretic- I think it was a specific drug / diuretic.  You cant prohibit athletes from drinking coffee lmaoo 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, justaguy said:

I dont think it was just any diuretic- I think it was a specific drug / diuretic.  You cant prohibit athletes from drinking coffee lmaoo 

Idk how it works, could just be large amounts of diuretic which you wouldn't get from coffee or normal foods.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

in other sports athletes get suspended for years when they get caught so 25 games is already a rediculously soft punishment. Although it sucks for fantasy of course, And professional athletes dont take these sbstances accidently. They know exactly what they are using to get better, stronger and make more money.

Edited by Chrizz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, StifleTower2 said:

The typical team has 13 players so 1 player is roughly 8%.  You’re missing him for a third of the fantasy regular season, ok.  So that’s 3% of your total value for the season.  It’s actually less than that because sometimes you have full slates and need to sit someone.  Not to mention presumably he will play during the playoffs when it matters most. 

 

I think this is only a rationale applicable when stats of players are disregarded. We all know Collins is not round 1 or 2 pick but the value he produced in the past games and projected stats in the "to-be-missed" games is something owners value more than 8% I suppose.

Trading him is a case to case basis really, depends on your build and flexibility.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, ill ark said:

 

I think this is only a rationale applicable when stats of players are disregarded. We all know Collins is not round 1 or 2 pick but the value he produced in the past games and projected stats in the "to-be-missed" games is something owners value more than 8% I suppose.

Trading him is a case to case basis really, depends on your build and flexibility.

I agree.  The converse of that is that if someone is acquiring him, particularly for a playoff push, then he's going to be even more valuable.  My only point is that it's not absurd to give up someone like CJ.

Edited by StifleTower2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any news about possible reduction?

 

Got an offer C.Capela for my Collins straight up that I'm really considering.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, det_tigers said:

Any news about possible reduction?

 

Got an offer C.Capela for my Collins straight up that I'm really considering.

 

 

Take it imo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

League: 8-team, h2h, 9-cat

 

I have #1 waiver claim, is this guy worth it? Logically, this is a no-brainer, but my inner voice is saying the 25-game wait is just too damn long.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, simon said:

League: 8-team, h2h, 9-cat

 

I have #1 waiver claim, is this guy worth it? Logically, this is a no-brainer, but my inner voice is saying the 25-game wait is just too damn long.


could make or break your season I think. Another injury or two and you’re going to really struggle. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, hoopking said:

is it possible to do a petition to yahoo for Suspended guys to hava eligiblity to IR?

No

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DanObiWan said:

So in terms of roster liability vs future reward, what sort of FA bid would you place on a dropped JC?  (100 budget?)


110

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, hoopking said:

is it possible to do a petition to yahoo for Suspended guys to hava eligiblity to IR?

 

No..hes not injured...why would he get IR?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, molski said:


could make or break your season I think. Another injury or two and you’re going to really struggle. 

 

Huuuge risk imo , another injury and your season is done . There won't be anymore struggles believe me. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, RunCMC said:

 

Huuuge risk imo , another injury and your season is done . There won't be anymore struggles believe me. 


What do you do if you have Ayton, Collins and Curry? haha fml

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Lob City99 said:


What do you do if you have Ayton, Collins and Curry? haha fml

 

Go to church and light a candle for each player , about all you can do 

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.