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Kendrick Nunn 2019-2020 Outlook

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6 minutes ago, Lifschitz said:

 

it's getting unbearable around here lately with new people asking for roster advice. 

 

^.

Not only this tho. If I had a quarter for the amount of "rage drops" I've seen, it wouldn't be no need for me to be in money leagues.

 

Edited by Trench Mob

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3 minutes ago, sasuke7201 said:

just wondering who did you drop to scoop him up?

 

Osman

1 minute ago, Lifschitz said:

 

This is who I'm debating as well. I didn't like him AT all and only took him once out of 30+ mocks, but in the draft he was there, and Josh Lloyd recommended him as a heavy sleeper.. I didn't believe it at all, and now I'm frustrated I took him. This is a very likely switch for me as well. 

 

Yeah I hear you. White was on my draft board for a while. He was considered a sleeper this summer and peaked during his FIBA participation, and Lloyd heavily touted him on bballmonster. But they never bothered to update his projection at all after it became clear he was going to come off the bench or during preseason. They just left the updated recommendations up, which seems pretty lazy

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was that info about him starting over Herro if Jimmy played true? I picked Herro because I thought it was the other way around but I'm ready to switch if the former is the case

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56 minutes ago, Lifschitz said:

 

This is who I'm debating as well. I didn't like him AT all and only took him once out of 30+ mocks, but in the draft he was there, and Josh Lloyd recommended him as a heavy sleeper.. I didn't believe it at all, and now I'm frustrated I took him. This is a very likely switch for me as well. 

Josh regretted already

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just scooped him up after completing a great 2-for-1 

 

if he’s starting over herro then there’s something there no doubt 

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43 minutes ago, ellejamil said:

was that info about him starting over Herro if Jimmy played true? I picked Herro because I thought it was the other way around but I'm ready to switch if the former is the case

 

True according to this article https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nba/miami-heat/article236561918.html

Quote

Coach Erik Spoelstra had Nunn penciled into the starting lineup from the start. Herro’s insertion came only after Butler was ruled out.

 

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9 minutes ago, COBBLEPOT said:

if he’s starting over herro then there’s something there no doubt 

 

Because he's a better defender. That's the secret.

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Still taken for surprise.

He looked extremely raw; just a downhill player during the summer, then boom. Wtf is even happening.

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6 minutes ago, Trench Mob said:

 

Because he's a better defender. That's the secret.

Haven't watched the Heat yet. Is this eye test?

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The early week is such a crazy time, you can land gems that will practically set your entire season's path, or you could drop players who could bounce back within the next few weeks, it really is the most volatile period.

 

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Just now, ellejamil said:

Haven't watched the Heat yet. Is this eye test?

 

Eye test has shown Herro as a generation player. But Nunn just happened. Right into the starting 5. 

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2 minutes ago, Trench Mob said:

Still taken for surprise.

He looked extremely raw; just a downhill player during the summer, then boom. Wtf is even happening.

 

Miami finds some gems from time to time, they also are the ones who resurrected Whiteside's career and got the best season out of James Johnson. If you buy in to their conditioning program you can end up doing really well. 

Recently their scouting is getting even better, finding guys like Herro, Derrick Jones, Bam. They've really set their future with a new young core. 

Someone made a good point earlier in this thread, if you look at the actual roster composition, who's going to score other than Butler and Herro? Their big men are role players/rollers/passers. There is a lot of value to be had for a new guard to sprout up and start putting up big numbers (Nunn). 

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5 minutes ago, Lifschitz said:

who's going to score other than Butler and Herro? Their big men are role players/rollers/passers.

 

Meyers Leonard can score. That's what his wife said anyways.

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f--- it, I dropped White for him, let's ride or die together boys, I love you all

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i'm on board gents!

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and he's undroppable wahahaha it might be a bug but don't care, still riding 🤣🤣🤣

Capture.PNG

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I can’t fathom both Rotoworld and bbm saying he’s a 14 guy for now, and a watch list for standard leagues just because Butler is out.

Teams need at least 3 solid above average scorers nowadays, you can’t get away with just Butler scoring. Butler is an all star not a superstar scorer. 
 

Adebayo is a facilitator/roller, Derrick Jones is a dunker, Olynyk is a stretch shooter/facilitator, Leonard is a stretch shooter, Dion Waiters and his chucking are gone, who else is going to score except Nunn and Herro next to Butler? 34 year old Dragic?

I can’t imagine Spoelstra stumbled onto this by mistake, in the post game conference he gave him a ton of praise about his maturity, quiet confidence, and how he’s impressed them at every level since summer league (called him an older younger rookie in the sense that he plays above his age).

The Heat are doing what the Raptors did, they’re growing a young core next to their aged vets. It’s a combination of rebuilding and winning at the same time.

You’d much rather go this path than let Dion waiters chuck to his heart’s content.

Nunn has carried over pure scoring at every level from college to summer league to preseason and now to the NBA. When you see his per minute stats and on top of it he’s given the starting PG role in a system that’s going to rely on its guards to score its an absolute no brainer to roster him and see where it goes.

I foresee a large role even when Butler returns.

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24 minutes ago, Lifschitz said:

I can’t fathom both Rotoworld and bbm saying he’s a 14 guy for now, and a watch list for standard leagues just because Butler is out.

Teams need at least 3 solid above average scorers nowadays, you can’t get away with just Butler scoring. Butler is an all star not a superstar scorer. 
 

Adebayo is a facilitator/roller, Derrick Jones is a dunker, Olynyk is a stretch shooter/facilitator, Leonard is a stretch shooter, Dion Waiters and his chucking are gone, who else is going to score except Nunn and Herro next to Butler? 34 year old Dragic?

I can’t imagine Spoelstra stumbled onto this by mistake, in the post game conference he gave him a ton of praise about his maturity, quiet confidence, and how he’s impressed them at every level since summer league (called him an older younger rookie in the sense that he plays above his age).

The Heat are doing what the Raptors did, they’re growing a young core next to their aged vets. It’s a combination of rebuilding and winning at the same time.

You’d much rather go this path than let Dion waiters chuck to his heart’s content.

Nunn has carried over pure scoring at every level from college to summer league to preseason and now to the NBA. When you see his per minute stats and on top of it he’s given the starting PG role in a system that’s going to rely on its guards to score its an absolute no brainer to roster him and see where it goes.

I foresee a large role even when Butler returns.


Winslow, to answer your question.  

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16 minutes ago, Kriggly said:


Winslow, to answer your question.  


winslow is not a ‘scorer’, he’s a Swiss Army knife big PG playmaker. He’s a poor shooter from two areas, just because he started hitting some threes doesn’t change that. 

Theres a big gap between putting up 10 to 14 off slashes, post ups, put backs and the occasional shot or drive, versus a varied scorer from long, mid, and inside.

Winslow's advantage is his multi positional versatility/size and two way play, not a ‘pure’ scorer by any stretch of the imagination.

Even then, you can very easily run a small ball lineup of Nunn / Herro / Butler / Winslow / Adebayo (or Leonard or Olynyk), the Heat have excellent depth/positional versatility. 

 

Edited by Lifschitz

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Quote

 

Kendrick Nunn is undeniable.

Nunn didn’t know what the future held for him right around this time last year. He was undrafted and unsigned after the Golden State Warriors opted to release him ahead of the regular season, and he was headed to a full year in the NBA G League with the Santa Cruz Warriors, Golden State’s affiliate.

The Heat prides itself on finding gems where no one else is looking and Nunn is looking like the latest. He dropped 40 in the preseason finale against the Houston Rockets on Friday to officially seal his already almost-certain roster spot. Like in the preseason finale, Butler didn’t play again Wednesday, which opened up an opportunity for Nunn to assert himself as the go-to scorer.

The 24-year-old got the starting nod in his NBA debut and quickly went to work. He hit a tough fadeaway for his first points, then, finished a dunk on a fast break for his next two. On Friday, he heated up in the second half and the same thing happened Tuesday. He breaks down defenders off the dribble and finishes at the rim, and it’s not even supposed to be his best skill. When Nunn was the No. 2 leading scorer in the country behind only Trae Young as a redshirt senior with the Oakland Grizzliies, Nunn was a sharpshooter, averaging nearly five three-pointers per game. He’s a weapon on the ball and he might be one off the ball once Butler is back.

“Kendrick, I’ve never seen him look like he’s ever under any stress, anxiety or pressure,” Spoelstra said. “That’s going back to preparing for summer league, in summer league. But he’s an experienced older young player. That’s part of the reason why you like him. He’s been in college, he played a year already in the pros. He has a pretty mature game and a mature disposition about him.

 

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nba/miami-heat/article236562603.html

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42 minutes ago, Lifschitz said:


winslow is not a ‘scorer’, he’s a Swiss Army knife big PG playmaker. He’s a poor shooter from two areas, just because he started hitting some threes doesn’t change that. 

Theres a big gap between putting up 10 to 14 off slashes, post ups, put backs and the occasional shot or drive, versus a varied scorer from long, mid, and inside.

Winslow's advantage is his multi positional versatility/size and two way play, not a ‘pure’ scorer by any stretch of the imagination.

Even then, you can very easily run a small ball lineup of Nunn / Herro / Butler / Winslow / Adebayo (or Leonard or Olynyk), the Heat have excellent depth/positional versatility. 

 


He outscored Nunn, just pointing out the obvious.  Hopefully Nunn tears it up, but it's one game and there's a lot of players who can eat on the roster, especially with Butler back.  Nunn was an above average 3s shooter and a below average everything else in his 5 years at college.  He was decent in G-league, but nothing amazing.  I'm just suggesting to give it more than 1 game before christening a 24 year old rookie who went undrafted as a top 3 scorer on an NBA playoff team.      

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11 minutes ago, Kriggly said:


He outscored Nunn, just pointing out the obvious.  Hopefully Nunn tears it up, but it's one game and there's a lot of players who can eat on the roster, especially with Butler back.  Nunn was an above average 3s shooter and a below average everything else in his 5 years at college.  He was decent in G-league, but nothing amazing.  I'm just suggesting to give it more than 1 game before christening a 24 year old rookie who went undrafted as a top 3 scorer on an NBA playoff team.      

 

The argument is more so that the other guys aren't good/great scorers, and Nunn has been steadily improving through each level of play. Herro is the only other guy next to Butler who has a scoring mentality, you can now add Nunn into that mix. I don't disagree about waiting to see how it'll work out when Butler is back, but the issue is you can't take those chances as @SicarioSanity alluded. You wait one day too long and he'll never see your roster again in a competitive league, and if its for one of your end-of-the-bench guys, it's low risk high reward. If he pans out you got a starting PG with a solid scoring skill set the rest of the season, if not, you'll find another pick up. 

How would you place the scorer hierarchy in Miami?

To me it seems pretty clear:

1. Butler

2. Herro / Nunn

3. Winslow

4. Dragic/Adebayo

and the rest is divvied up among their role players. Winslow had every chance last year to take the reins and he blended in, because he's a super-role player, not a go-to option against good defenses. He'll have occasional scoring outbursts, but not consistently game to game or even week to week.

Miami is composed of 'team scoring', but if you compare them to top teams in the league they're more about being a two-way gritty team that scores off creating turnovers and their heavy screen/roll/pick and roll offense/high post passing offense. 

Miami was 26th in scoring last year at 105 ppg. Their current roster likely isn't that far ahead of that, maybe 110+ average. They don't pace and space like they did with LeBron, this is more of a half court offense. Waiters is gone. That's it. He isn't coming back. If you're going to score 110+ every night, try to imagine how those points get spread out across their roster and you'll see why Nunn makes a lot of sense ROS. 

Edited by Lifschitz
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17 minutes ago, Lifschitz said:

 

The argument is more so that the other guys aren't good/great scorers, and Nunn has been steadily improving through each level of play. Herro is the only other guy next to Butler who has a scoring mentality, you can now add Nunn into that mix. I don't disagree about waiting to see how it'll work out when Butler is back, but the issue is you can't take those chances as @SicarioSanity alluded. You wait one day too long and he'll never see your roster again in a competitive league, and if its for one of your end-of-the-bench guys, it's low risk high reward. If he pans out you got a starting PG with a solid scoring skill set the rest of the season, if not, you'll find another pick up. 

How would you place the scorer hierarchy in Miami?

To me it seems pretty clear:

1. Butler

2. Herro / Nunn

3. Winslow

4. Dragic/Adebayo

and the rest is divvied up among their role players. Winslow had every chance last year to take the reins and he blended in, because he's a super-role player, not a go-to option against good defenses. He'll have occasional scoring outbursts, but not consistently game to game or even week to week.

Miami is composed of 'team scoring', but if you compare them to top teams in the league they're more about being a two-way gritty team that scores off creating turnovers and their heavy screen/roll/pick and roll offense/high post passing offense. 

Miami was 26th in scoring last year at 105 ppg. Their current roster likely isn't that far ahead of that, maybe 110+ average. They don't pace and space like they did with LeBron, this is more of a half court offense. Waiters is gone. That's it. He isn't coming back. If you're going to score 110+ every night, try to imagine how those points get spread out across their roster and you'll see why Nunn makes a lot of sense ROS. 

Damn Lif, why u about to make me go drop Derrick too for this kid 😂🙈

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wait one more day and he's gone

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7 minutes ago, ROTY said:

Damn Lif, why u about to make me go drop Derrick too for this kid 😂🙈

 

I pulled the trigger already, I couldn't stand seeing these 4/3/3 9/3/3 lines with no threes. If your PGs don't shoot threes it just gets you behind so much. Especially if you have a few big men who don't shoot threes. 

The guard carousel there is insane and I just don't trust Pop at all. I did it completely on a whim because of Josh Lloyd talking him up even though every bone told me don't pick this guy.

I like his skill set I actually think on another team he could be a stud, he has legitimate upside, but Pops likes foundation/pillars at three major positions (PG, SG/SF and C), and he makes everyone role players around that. So he'll give his main guys extremely high usage and then everyone else has to play a role within that system - cutting/moving/off ball slashing and spotting up/catch and shoot. 

So you'll see 4 shots for Lyles, 2 for Belli, 11 for Mills, 6 for White, so on and so forth. 

In a game where Murray only played 23 minutes, it's a red flag that White only played 22 min versus a horrible Knicks team in what ended up as a 19 point blowout.. that to me was the icing on the cake, if he's not going to get run in the last quarter, then it's not worth it to hang on. 

I wanted to see signs that Pops would at least try him and Murray together, but Forbes is way too good at shooting threes - a skill that White isn't nearly as good at, and it fits well with their starting 5 since both DeRozan and Murray aren't good three point shooters - and Aldridge doesn't shoot them, so I don't see it changing. Why would he suddenly insert White and then have 4 guys who don't shoot well from three? If he doesn't start Lyles teams would just pack the paint on their team and dare them to shoot, I know I would.

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