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The Big Bat Theory

Boston Red Sox 2020 Outlook

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1 hour ago, OaksterDan said:

I guess if you care more about payroll and team control than actually watching talented big league players, sure, Casas is a way better choice to DH than JD Martinez, much in the same manner Verdugo is a way better choice than Mookie Betts.

JD Martinez, by the way, has averaged more games/season with the Sox than he did before playing for them, so not sure why you're ascribing a fake injury to him.  

Well what you call a "fake" injury kept him out of a number of games last year, hah.  And I care about the over all team being strong and winning and NOT hamstringing and even destroying it with mega contracts to a few "stars."

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22 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Well what you call a "fake" injury kept him out of a number of games last year, hah.  And I care about the over all team being strong and winning and NOT hamstringing and even destroying it with mega contracts to a few "stars."


He has hit career highs in Plate Appearances so far in his two seasons with the Red Sox, while averaging 146 games per season.  Not sure you can expect more than that.  He also missed less time to back injuries than Verdugo last year, and likely this year...

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[Post removed.  This thread is for discussion of the Red Sox, including but not limited to fantasy-relevant discussion.  If you see a post you believe is off topic, report it rather than responding with snarky GIFs.]

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Meet the newest Red Sox starter:

Quote

Red Sox signed RHP Collin McHugh to a one-year, $600,000 contract.

McHugh was holding out for a guaranteed major league offer and finally secured one from the Red Sox, who traded David Price to the Dodgers last month and are going to be without Chris Sale (elbow) for the early part of the 2020 season. McHugh figures to operate as a starter in Boston after bouncing between the bullpen and rotation in Houston. He struggled to a 4.70 ERA over 74 2/3 innings last year while battling an elbow issue but posted a stellar 1.99 ERA with 94 strikeouts across 72 1/3 innings for the Astros in 2018.

Source: Chris Cotillo on Twitter                    Mar 5, 2020, 9:15 AM ET

 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Meet the newest Red Sox starter:

 

LOVE IT!!!! Championship!

Go SAWX!!!

Edited by dfstout
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In all fairness McHugh is probably already better than current #3 starter Martin Perez. 

Sure smells like a last-place finish is coming up.

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When did sox become a small market team? I must have missed it, with all this concern over $$ did they move to the midwest or something?

Because they used to be the 3rd most valuable team.

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I like the move. Finally adding some missing puzzle pieces, and Mchugh has proved to be a reliable starter in the past. I see him fitting in the 3/4 slot.

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1 hour ago, OaksterDan said:

In all fairness McHugh is probably already better than current #3 starter Martin Perez. 

Sure smells like a last-place finish is coming up.

 

Didnt they win a championship the last time they 'supposedly" were rebuilding (2018)?

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5 minutes ago, Gryfter said:

 

Didnt they win a championship the last time they 'supposedly" were rebuilding (2018)?

cmon.. why you gotta get our hopes up like that. Let us Sox fans be happy with accepting our inevitable 4th place 2020 team. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, OaksterDan said:

In all fairness McHugh is probably already better than current #3 starter Martin Perez. 

Sure smells like a last-place finish is coming up.

Oh quit over reacting.  To even suggest they finish behind Baltimore this year is ludicrous.

2 hours ago, itslarry said:

When did sox become a small market team? I must have missed it, with all this concern over $$ did they move to the midwest or something?

Because they used to be the 3rd most valuable team.

Sigh.  AGAIN they need to re-set the luxury tax NOT because of money concerns but because they lose major draft picks and allotted international signings pool max limits if they don't go under it this season. 

MLB put those new and devastating to your farm system penalties in place a few years ago just to stop the richer clubs that could absorb the mere money penalties like the Red Sox since the original money only penalties weren't doing the trick.  Once the re-set is done this year they can go over it again for a few years starting n 2021 before the draconian penalties to their farm system build up again since the draft and international money allotted penalties ramp up and don't just go back on to full penalties after the reset.

Edited by The Big Bat Theory

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Gryfter said:

 

Didnt they win a championship the last time they 'supposedly" were rebuilding (2018)?

 

People thought they were rebuilding in 2018? They signed JD Martinez going into that year; going into this year they have traded their best overall player for prospects and an injured player, none of whom are ready to contribute currently. 

Edited by OaksterDan
They're their
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Lol, yeah they aren't gonna finish behind Baltimore. I should clarify: they are gonna finish last out of all the Major League teams in their decision.

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So basically the Red Sox got one of the biggest steals ever?  I mean a shorter season would've helped their chances of being able to possibly compete...  But they dumped Betts and Price salary, plus got back a group of players.  Who knows when/if this season will be played.  Sigh.

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On 3/5/2020 at 10:21 AM, itslarry said:

When did sox become a small market team? I must have missed it, with all this concern over $$ did they move to the midwest or something?

Because they used to be the 3rd most valuable team.

Who exactly did you want them to get? Cole? Wheeler? Who was that player they needed to sign that would’ve made it OK? Dombrowski’s mistakes and Betts’s lack of loyalty were the issues that had to be fixed.

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On 3/5/2020 at 1:05 PM, OaksterDan said:

 

People thought they were rebuilding in 2018? They signed JD Martinez going into that year; going into this year they have traded their best overall player for prospects and an injured player, none of whom are ready to contribute currently. 

 

On 3/5/2020 at 1:07 PM, OaksterDan said:

Lol, yeah they aren't gonna finish behind Baltimore. I should clarify: they are gonna finish last out of all the Major League teams in their decision.

Are you done trolling? Betts wasn’t going to sign an extension and trading him at the deadline would’ve brought a lot less. In the meantime Sale’s, Eovaldi’s and health and contracts were causing issues. Let’s say Betts stayed, did that look like a division winning team? Nope.

 

Sure the Red Sox could’ve beat thee Yankees offer for Cole and then signed Wheeler too, went well over the top luxury tax bracket and lost draft picks. Is that what you wanted? 

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7 hours ago, Thenewwildone8 said:

 

Are you done trolling? Betts wasn’t going to sign an extension and trading him at the deadline would’ve brought a lot less. In the meantime Sale’s, Eovaldi’s and health and contracts were causing issues. Let’s say Betts stayed, did that look like a division winning team? Nope.

 

Sure the Red Sox could’ve beat thee Yankees offer for Cole and then signed Wheeler too, went well over the top luxury tax bracket and lost draft picks. Is that what you wanted? 

 

Calm down, it's ok for people to have different perspectives on things.  I didn't want my favorite team to trade its best player.  The statuses of other teammates and free agents is irrelevant to that.  I never advocated signing Cole and Wheeler, that's a nice little strawman argument you've set up.  BUT.  That would've been better, from my perspective, than draft picks (which will never add up to the value of a Cole or Wheeler) and an extra 75 mil per year lining John Henry's pockets.  You disagree.  And that is ok!  

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It will be fun to follow the careers of these prospects they draft. I assume theyre all going to turn into superstars, since thats what they lpst to maintain them, right?

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1 hour ago, itslarry said:

It will be fun to follow the careers of these prospects they draft. I assume theyre all going to turn into superstars, since thats what they lpst to maintain them, right?

Just like every one of these mega deals works out for the best, right ? Pujols, Miggy, Arod, Heyward, Crawford, Mauer, Zito, Wright, Fielder etc ,the list goes on. How many of them end up being worth it ?

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23 hours ago, fletch44 said:

Just like every one of these mega deals works out for the best, right ? Pujols, Miggy, Arod, Heyward, Crawford, Mauer, Zito, Wright, Fielder etc ,the list goes on. How many of them end up being worth it ?

You named petty much all players who weer past their primes when they signed. 

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On 3/18/2020 at 9:01 AM, itslarry said:

It will be fun to follow the careers of these prospects they draft. I assume theyre all going to turn into superstars, since thats what they lpst to maintain them, right?

 

If they end up with an above-average outfielder and an above-average 2b out of this deal in Verdugo and Downs, I think they'll have gotten enough to at least justify making the trade, talent-wise.  Hopefully that's what happens, but I doubt it.  Most prospects don't pan out, and I'm not expecting above-average out of a 24 year old outfielder who already has serious back problems.  

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Red Sox options were IMO:

2020: Likely finish behind Yankees and likely TB while having Mookie on the roster. 2021: have nothing to show for Mookie leaving

2020: Likely finish behind Yankees and likely TB while NOT having Mookie on the roster but instead with pieces you got for trading him "early" that can contribute moving forward.

 

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that option 2 was the clear choice. However, if you make decisions with emotion rather than logic and are mad bd "they didn't keep my favorite player", you might think option 1 would be the best move.

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3 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

Red Sox options were IMO:

2020: Likely finish behind Yankees and likely TB while having Mookie on the roster. 2021: have nothing to show for Mookie leaving

2020: Likely finish behind Yankees and likely TB while NOT having Mookie on the roster but instead with pieces you got for trading him "early" that can contribute moving forward.

 

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that option 2 was the clear choice. However, if you make decisions with emotion rather than logic and are mad bd "they didn't keep my favorite player", you might think option 1 would be the best move.

 

Even what the "best move" is, is relative though.  Is it the best move to get 6 seasons of decent play (even this is not a given) out of 2 or 3 players, instead of 1 season of extraordinary play from one player?  Sports is just entertainment, I find it more entertaining to watch as many seasons as possible of the highest quality play now, while I can.  I guess I should be assuming that one of these prospects can replicate the value of one Betts season (highly unlikely) for even one season at any point in their careers, which is taking greatness for granted.  If you prefer an everlasting cycle of "good but not great" then sure, teams should always trade their stars on the verge of free agency for younger, cost-controlled, unproven players.  Congrats, now you are the Oakland A's. 

Angels are dummies for signing Mike Trout I too, I suppose.  

 

Everyone wants to strive to be like the Oakland A's ever since Moneyball, without admitting

A. this strategy has never won the A's a World Series, or even a League Championship.

B. encouraging this strategy is just buying into a narrative that owners shouldn't re-invest their profits into team payroll.  There is no extra honor in winning a World Series the "moneyball" way.  All it means is the rich owner of the team pockets extra profit out of a championship, as opposed to the players.  

 

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Basically with your argument, the Red Sox should've traded Pedro for prospects heading into the 2004 (instead of getting Schilling) season because the Yankees were better than them and he was an impending free agent.  I'm glad Bloom wasn't GM of the Sox back then or the Curse of the Bambino might still be in existance.  Although at least we'd have a lot of exciting first round/wild card game losses to bemoan!!!

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1 hour ago, OaksterDan said:

 

Even what the "best move" is, is relative though.  Is it the best move to get 6 seasons of decent play (even this is not a given) out of 2 or 3 players, instead of 1 season of extraordinary play from one player?  Sports is just entertainment, I find it more entertaining to watch as many seasons as possible of the highest quality play now, while I can.  I guess I should be assuming that one of these prospects can replicate the value of one Betts season (highly unlikely) for even one season at any point in their careers, which is taking greatness for granted.  If you prefer an everlasting cycle of "good but not great" then sure, teams should always trade their stars on the verge of free agency for younger, cost-controlled, unproven players.  Congrats, now you are the Oakland A's. 

Angels are dummies for signing Mike Trout I too, I suppose.  

 

Everyone wants to strive to be like the Oakland A's ever since Moneyball, without admitting

A. this strategy has never won the A's a World Series, or even a League Championship.

B. encouraging this strategy is just buying into a narrative that owners shouldn't re-invest their profits into team payroll.  There is no extra honor in winning a World Series the "moneyball" way.  All it means is the rich owner of the team pockets extra profit out of a championship, as opposed to the players.  

 

 

-No one said those things. At least I didn't and I'm the one you quoted. The argument is do you lose with Betts in 2020 and then he is guaranteed to walk in 2021 and you get nothing to show for it or do you move him now so that you have something to show for it?

-If the Sox had a team that could compete IMO for a WS this year with Betts, I would understand keeping him because a title would be worth it. But as a realist, I don't see how they would have competed as I think TB and NY were ahead of him even if he stayed. That said, I'd rather get something for him now because you can come in 3rd with our without Betts.

 

-Why did you include Mike Trout and his contract and situation? What does that have to do with anything?

Saying that the Red Sox should have paid Betts is a different argument, so I'm not sure why you even mention that side of it. The argument here is the fact that they weren't going to. So the fact that they were not going to leads to the decision "do I likely lose with Betts in 2020 and then get nothing when he leaves in 2021? Or "do I likely lose without Betts in 2020 and get whatever I can get for him now because he was going to leave anyway in 2021?"

I truly don't understand how anyone wouldn't understand the reality with this.

If you truly think the Sox had a championship roster this year if they kept Betts, than I don't know what to say besides roll my eyes.

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