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2019-2020 Off-Season and Hot Stove Thread

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The "low-level catching prospect" is Edgardo Rodriguez. Fangraphs said this about him a year ago:

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It’s not abundantly clear whether or not Rodriguez will be able to catch as, at age 18, he’s already a pretty big, long-levered kid who was initially unsure if he even wanted to try it. But Rodriguez can really hit. He has excellent timing, bat control, and feel for all-fields contact, and he can open up and get his barrel on pitches inside. He might end up at first base or in an outfield corner, but he might hit enough to profile at those spots and if he can catch, his ceiling is sizable.

 

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In summary:

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Jeff Passan of ESPN reports that the Rays are acquiring Jose Martinez along with Randy Arozarena in a six-piece trade with the Cardinals.

As reported earlier on Thursday, the Rays will ship top pitching prospect Matthew Liberatore to St. Louis in the deal. Tampa Bay will also send over young catching prospect Edgardo Rodriguez, per Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic, and the teams will exchange compensatory draft picks for 2020, with the Rays getting a Compensation Round A pick and the Cardinals getting a Compensation Round B selection. Martinez hit .269/.340/.410 with 10 homers in 373 at-bats for St. Louis last year, while Arozarena -- one of the better outfield prospects in the Cards' system -- impressed with an .891 OPS in his 23 at-bats after a late-season promotion. Martinez will likely rotate between first base and DH for Tampa Bay, possibly with some playing time in the corner outfield. Arozarena figures to begin the 2020 campaign at Triple-A Durham.

Source: Jeff Passan on Twitter    Jan 9, 2020, 7:25 PM ET

So the earlier reports that Bader and O'Neil went to TB weren't true?  If so getting Arozarena instead makes far more sense for their outfield.  OTOH Jose Martinez makes like the 200th 1B/DH type they have now.

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13 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

In summary:

So the earlier reports that Bader and O'Neil went to TB weren't true?  If so getting Arozarena instead makes far more sense for their outfield.  OTOH Jose Martinez makes like the 200th 1B/DH type they have now.


Yeah but Martinez is a righty. Something they needed to be part of their 7 platoons. 

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Tampa’s list of full time position players next year:

1. Meadows

2. Adames

3. There is no 3.

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9 hours ago, KingJoffrey said:

Good deal for the Rays - They continue to pull off smart deals.

Trading the 2nd best LHP prospect in the league for Yandy Diaz 2.0? Not sure this trade will be looked back on as good. Worst case you do this in June if you have a shot to win the East. This move is awful. 

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Yeah this is just an odd move for Rays...to give up one of the very best LH pitchers-- even if he is still pretty far away-- feels strange to me.

Not sure this is a move they pull under past FO stewardship?

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13 hours ago, meh2 said:

Tampa’s list of full time position players next year:

1. Meadows

2. Adames

3. There is no 3.

 

good Ole KK is number 3, after that, yea nobody hah

 

This deal makes me super nervous trading away such a promising LHP but the Rays get the benefit of the doubt, earned that much but def have an eyebrow raised watching Liberatore's development now

 

EDIT: Snell McKay McClanahan are all LHP too though and more advanced at this point so not like they are lacking top end LHP talent i suppose

Edited by kmoore1521

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3 hours ago, Backdoor Slider said:

Trading the 2nd best LHP prospect in the league for Yandy Diaz 2.0? Not sure this trade will be looked back on as good. Worst case you do this in June if you have a shot to win the East. This move is awful. 

This was my initial reaction as well but the more I think about it I’m thinking this deal is more about obtaining Arozarena then it is about Martinez. I’m willing to give Tampa the benefit of the doubt here after seeing some of the deals they’ve made over the last few years. Arozarena seems to have some impressive tools and it wouldn’t surprise me to see him develop into a Tommy Pham-lite. 

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13 hours ago, KingJoffrey said:

Good deal for the Rays - They continue to pull off smart deals.

 

I can't help but to disagree. if this prospect Liberatore was as good as some say then the Rays should have/could have gotten so much more than they did. multiple other teams could have offered more for this top pitching prospect. the Rays could have gotten an all star.

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29 minutes ago, SpecialFNK said:

 

I can't help but to disagree. if this prospect Liberatore was as good as some say then the Rays should have/could have gotten so much more than they did. multiple other teams could have offered more for this top pitching prospect. the Rays could have gotten an all star.

 

Very true, time will tell, but if we making bets right now, ill side with the Rays evaluation over anyone on pitching prospects hah hope they were right dealing him 🤞

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2 hours ago, meh2 said:

This was my initial reaction as well but the more I think about it I’m thinking this deal is more about obtaining Arozarena then it is about Martinez. I’m willing to give Tampa the benefit of the doubt here after seeing some of the deals they’ve made over the last few years. Arozarena seems to have some impressive tools and it wouldn’t surprise me to see him develop into a Tommy Pham-lite. 

 

yeah. most of the people who don't like the deal for tampa, i'm seeing them analyze it as basically liberatore-for-jomart with at best kind of a hand-wave at the other stuff in the deal, which is understandable just because arozarena hasn't gotten a lot of press and most people don't know much about him. but i think arozarena is actually the #1 player in the deal for them. like, check out his numbers from last year

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/randy-arozarena/19290/stats?position=OF

even klaw, who's usually pretty sarcastic about players like this, doesn't completely dismiss the idea of him hitting enough to be a regular in LF, which is a pretty high bar offensively. he does say it's an unusual profile, that's probably going to depend on maintaining a .300-ish BA, but he seems to think it's possible. arozarena's never struck out much and seemed to take a fairly big step forward last year even accounting for the ball.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, kmoore1521 said:

 

good Ole KK is number 3, after that, yea nobody ha

 

With his injury history KK should have an asterisk as a full time player.

 

 

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16 hours ago, meh2 said:

Tampa’s list of full time position players next year:

1. Meadows

2. Adames

3. There is no 3.

 

3 hours ago, kmoore1521 said:

good Ole KK is number 3, after that, yea nobody hah

This deal makes me super nervous trading away such a promising LHP but the Rays get the benefit of the doubt, earned that much but def have an eyebrow raised watching Liberatore's development now

EDIT: Snell McKay McClanahan are all LHP too though and more advanced at this point so not like they are lacking top end LHP talent i suppose

Hopefully Brandon Lowe will end up as #4 and their full time 2B. 

I mean with all these 1B/DH/OF types they have now gotten can they continue to carry all four of Yandy Diaz, Joey Wendle, Mike Brosseau and Daniel Robertson on the 26 man roster?  One of them has to play 3B and one has to be infield utility I'm guessing.  So I'd think one or two of those guys would have to be kicked off.    Which could help Brandon Lowe's number of plate appearance this season maybe.  

I think the deal is a good one for TB because they almost factory produce pitching down there.  But hitting has always been their weakness and I agree Arozarena was the real get in the trade.  A young talented player under team control to bookend with Auston Meadows in the other corner who is also young and under team control.  Sounds good to me.  Of course that leaves Hunter Renfroe as one more of the endless DH guys they have now if Arozarena can become a full time player.

And I agree Nick Lowe is screwed.  Hope they move him in a trade because he has some real power and has nothing left to prove in the minors.

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https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28458841/source-mookie-betts-red-sox-agree-record-27m-deal
 

Outfielder Mookie Betts is getting a one-year, $27 million deal from the Boston Red SoxThe Red Sox on Friday also reached one-year deals with outfielder Jackie Bradley Jr. ($11 million) and relievers Brandon Workman ($3.5 million), Matt Barnes ($3.1 million) and Heath Hembree ($1.6125 million), sources told ESPN.

 

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2 hours ago, shakestreet said:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28458841/source-mookie-betts-red-sox-agree-record-27m-deal
 

Outfielder Mookie Betts is getting a one-year, $27 million deal from the Boston Red SoxThe Red Sox on Friday also reached one-year deals with outfielder Jackie Bradley Jr. ($11 million) and relievers Brandon Workman ($3.5 million), Matt Barnes ($3.1 million) and Heath Hembree ($1.6125 million), sources told ESPN.

 

 

JBJ seems excessive.  wonder if this forces them to trade Betts?

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15 minutes ago, jfazz23 said:

JBJ seems excessive.  wonder if this forces them to trade Betts?

The number for Jackie is what had been predicted all along.  They knew it would have to be 11 mil or they would go to arbitration and lose if they offered anything lower.  Why I don't know as the arcane workings of arbitration numbers are beyond me but this number seemed set in concrete from the beginning and that is one reason they want to move him before the start of the season.  He is a FA at the end of the season and they definitely won't be keeping him next year if he stays this year.

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5 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

The number for Jackie is what had been predicted all along.  They knew it would have to be 11 mil or they would go to arbitration and lose if they offered anything lower.  Why I don't know as the arcane workings of arbitration numbers are beyond me but this number seemed set in concrete from the beginning and that is one reason they want to move him before the start of the season.  He is a FA at the end of the season and they definitely won't be keeping him next year if he stays this year.

 

do you think betts number increases, decreases or has no effect on his likelihood of being traded?

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10 hours ago, wily mo said:

 

yeah. most of the people who don't like the deal for tampa, i'm seeing them analyze it as basically liberatore-for-jomart with at best kind of a hand-wave at the other stuff in the deal, which is understandable just because arozarena hasn't gotten a lot of press and most people don't know much about him. but i think arozarena is actually the #1 player in the deal for them. like, check out his numbers from last year

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/randy-arozarena/19290/stats?position=OF

even klaw, who's usually pretty sarcastic about players like this, doesn't completely dismiss the idea of him hitting enough to be a regular in LF, which is a pretty high bar offensively. he does say it's an unusual profile, that's probably going to depend on maintaining a .300-ish BA, but he seems to think it's possible. arozarena's never struck out much and seemed to take a fairly big step forward last year even accounting for the ball.

 

The thing that drives me crazy, though, is how the Rays trading for a player suddenly makes them such a much better prospect.  Before this trade most lists had Arozarena around #15-20 in the Cards' system, and most at 40 or 45 FV.  The Rays made a pretty poor trade, and now all the TB apologists have come out of the woodwork on Twitter to talk up Arozarena like he has some immense upside.  Saw people suggesting he "could be good enough to rate 50 FV".  Give me a break, you thought he was a nobody yesterday.  The Rays wanting him doesn't suddenly make him some kind of top prospect.

Sure, Arozarena could turn out to be a good MLBer.  But his profile screams 4th OF - good contact skills (not great though), limited power, somewhat speedy, but not going to be a big time base stealer either.  Rays must like what they see, but that doesn't mean he's suddenly better.  

The other suggestion I've seen several times from different sources is that if the Rays are trading away Liberatore, they must have reasons they don't like him.  Sell high before other scouts find his flaws, type of logic.  If that's the case then the Rays' scouting department failed big time by investing a 1st round pick in him just a year and a half ago.  His velocity and curveball have shown to be everything they should be, so if there's something else there the Rays don't like, they shouldn't have drafted him in the first place.  Just seems like another off the wall guess on why the Rays made a trade that nobody can understand when examined logically.

This is your classic fantasy trade offer of "here's some of my bench players and some lint from my pocket for one of your good players," and the Rays were the one sucker that accepted.  As someone else pointed out, I don't see a reason they couldn't have done a similar trade in-season if they felt they needed to add depth.  They have plenty of OF depth, and if anything, they could have probably gotten J-Mart on his own (or another flawed, no-defense, right handed bat) for a much lesser prospect than Liberatore.

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6 hours ago, jfazz23 said:

do you think betts number increases, decreases or has no effect on his likelihood of being traded?

You mean his arbitration number?  That's probably what everyone predicted for awhile now is my guess so his ability to be traded given his salary this year shouldn't effect his trade value I would guess.  It is the one year of control only that is the hang-up for other teams interested in him because they have to give up someone to get him.  If it was 27 mil as a one year free agent they would be banging down the door to get to him if they are all in this year.

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AL East is filled with good LHP, greatly improving JM’s value.

Red Sox - Sales Price Erod Perez

Yankees - Paxton Happ (for now)

Jays - Ryu

Oriols - Means

Liberatore won’t be ready until 2022.  There’s a lot that can happen in the next few years.

 

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Here in STL, Cards fans are pretty stoked about this deal.

We've been trying to find a taker for JMart for over 2 years now, and getting a top-tier prospect for him seems like a best-case-scenario.

 

With that said, JMart is one hell of a hitter and has a great personality. Your team will be more fun to watch and root for with him on the roster. He can hit in the middle of your order and will drive in runs. He wasn't a fit in STL because he is (and has always been) an absolute butcher in the field, no matter where you put him, and there is no DH in the National League (yet).

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4 hours ago, mcdowellstl said:

Here in STL, Cards fans are pretty stoked about this deal.

We've been trying to find a taker for JMart for over 2 years now, and getting a top-tier prospect for him seems like a best-case-scenario.

Don't get too attached to Liberatore.  Because other things seem to be going on too.  Probably won't happen but Rotoworld blurb sez:

Quote

The Cardinals and Rockies have conducted trade talks in a potential deal for Nolan Arenado.

Bruce Levine of radio station WSCR 670 AM heard from a source that the potential return heading from St. Louis to Colorado would include starting pitcher Dakota Hudson, closer Carlos Martinez, outfielder Tyler O'Neill and prospect pitcher Matthew Liberatore. The Cardinals would also be responsible for most or all of the $234 million remaining on Arenado's contract. The two teams are likely not close to a deal at this time.

Jan 11, 2020, 4:04 PM ET

Colorado would be the worst thing for Liberatore too.  Well any pitcher anyway.

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I don't think Arrenado is a real option either. Arrenado contract has a 2 year opt out clause. plus we just signed Carp to a 2 year extension to play 3B. Anyway he has a full no trade clause.  Just like Stanton nixed his deal to the Cards Arrenado can name his next team if he wants out of Colorado.

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I was actually listening to that broadcast on 670 AM discussing the rumored Cards/Rockies talks for Arenado. That RW blurb exaggerates a little. Levine said those were the various names his source said were being discussed by the two teams, not a full package or any actual offer.

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