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2019-2020 Off-Season and Hot Stove Thread

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7 hours ago, sngehl01 said:

Really weird take to write them off so easily. They absolutely have a chance. Price had an extremely solid first 16 games of the season. E-Rod could take another step forward. Sale may return to his former self, or closer to it. The lineup isn't really lacking. 

I'm not saying the Yankees or any number of other teams aren't on paper, but we haven't played the season yet, they definitely have a shot. They may need more things to break right but Boston winning the world series this year wouldn't be any sort of underdog story. 

 

Not saying the Yankees roster isn't better, but the Red Sox right now probably have close to a top 5 roster in the league, obviously in the top 10.  Mindblowing to me honestly.  The Yankees Farm system is stacked. What happens if Jasson Dominguez lives up to the hype and becomes a Mookie Betts/ Mike Trout like talent. Going to trade Verdugo and Jeter Down for more servicable prospects so they don't have to pay them too? 

 

It's not like the Yankees are going to be anything but an elite roster in 2021 and beyond too, totally unsure about potentially giving up a year with 3 elite stud hitters in their primes + JD Martinez to push for a year or more back when the competition will in no way be less and E-Rod.Price, or Sale could be dead arm by then. 

 

Bottom line, I think throwing away 2020 to free up cap to overpay other pitchers in hopes they can catch up to the Yankees is silly, especially since you have to already make up the Betts production (and more if their 3 top pitchers go south faster).  

 

Theres a middle ground between paying all your top prospects to compete this year and punting a year that seems to be lost here. Being sustainable means nothing. You're either competing or you're not, and a Mookie Trade basically says you're not, and with that roster it  seems like a questionable decision.

Edited by brockpapersizer

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The Yankees won 103 games last year and added Gerrit Cole and get Severino back.  They are loaded.

The Red Sox won 84 games last year and still have problems with their pitching.  The Sox could win a WC game but most likely get bounced if everything went right for them this year.  They are not adding payroll at the trade deadline to fix any holes in the bullpen or if they have some injuries.

 

Chaim Bloom was brought in to fix things. 

Sadly trading Betts for a few good prospects since they are not signing him to a long term deal is the smart thing to do.

The reported Dodger deal is a good one for both sides. 

The Padre one with Wil Myers was gross and hard to understand for the Sox other than to create a bidding thing with another team like the Dodgers.

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18 minutes ago, Brooklyn Dude said:

The Yankees won 103 games last year and added Gerrit Cole and get Severino back.  They are loaded.

The Red Sox won 84 games last year and still have problems with their pitching.  The Sox could win a WC game but most likely get bounced if everything went right for them this year.  They are not adding payroll at the trade deadline to fix any holes in the bullpen or if they have some injuries.

 

Chaim Bloom was brought in to fix things. 

Sadly trading Betts for a few good prospects since they are not signing him to a long term deal is the smart thing to do.

The reported Dodger deal is a good one for both sides. 

The Padre one with Wil Myers was gross and hard to understand for the Sox other than to create a bidding thing with another team like the Dodgers.

Once you make the playoffs, anything can happen in a short series. The current world champs a Josh Hader from not even being in the NLDS.

Either blow it up or give it one last go. Trading Mookie and NOT also selling Xander for actual impact prospects is just treading water. Xander will be past his opt out date by the time Boston can put something together that is better then their current roster with mookie.

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I mean Gerrit Cole could just as easy get hurt or not be able to get away with as much pinetar as he used in Houston.

 

Still seems really bad to give up one of Sales remaining great years and prime seasons for multiple elite hitters because one team in your division has a better on paper roster than you right now. Winning a series comes down to whose hot and there are  two wild card spots.

 

As a Dodgers fan I look forward to having better championship odds for the season and getting back a compensation pick if they don’t re-sign Mookie. I hope they give Mookie 400 million dollars too, even though I know they won’t.

Edited by brockpapersizer
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1 hour ago, Slatykamora said:

Once you make the playoffs, anything can happen in a short series. The current world champs a Josh Hader from not even being in the NLDS.

Either blow it up or give it one last go. Trading Mookie and NOT also selling Xander for actual impact prospects is just treading water. Xander will be past his opt out date by the time Boston can put something together that is better then their current roster with mookie.

 

Sure anything can happen but the odds would be strongly against this current squad winning the whole thing if you are being fair.

 

Lets see if they can attach a lot of the David Price money to the Mookie deal.  That would give them some additional needed relief.

And who knows what the plan is as far as the rest of the veteran players.  Chris Sale isn't the same pitcher anymore.

 

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16 minutes ago, Brooklyn Dude said:

 

Sure anything can happen but the odds would be strongly against this current squad winning the whole thing if you are being fair.

 

 

 


I would bet hard against any one team winning the World Series if I get the field 

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10 hours ago, Brooklyn Dude said:

The Yankees won 103 games last year and added Gerrit Cole and get Severino back.  They are loaded.

The Red Sox won 84 games last year and still have problems with their pitching.  The Sox could win a WC game but most likely get bounced if everything went right for them this year.  They are not adding payroll at the trade deadline to fix any holes in the bullpen or if they have some injuries.

This is really neither here nor there. The Red Sox are absolutely good enough to compete now. Chris Sale was pure dominance until this last year, writing him off and calling him toast after 1 year is a bit much for me. His HR rate was higher than ever before, but we also had the happy happy fun ball. Cole is coming off a season where he threw nearly 250 innings. 

The Red Sox may have "problems" with their pitching on paper right now but that really doesn't mean a thing. How many guys far outperformed expectations heading into 2019? Plenty. With the offensive strength of this club + their top 3 guys being capable arms they shouldn't be counted out, at all. They obviously wouldn't be my first, second, or even third choice to win the WS but they are far from having no chance to win it. 

They have some nice prospects as is. They have a team that can compete now. Give this season a shot and if you're not in it mail off Mookie at the deadline. If Price is throwing like he did the first half last year you don't even have to attach him to Betts to move him, or if you do you won't be washing so much of Betts value off. 

I really hate the all or nothing approach teams are taking now. Houston did it and I hated it then (though it's working out now). It's like teams are content trading 5 year windows of contention with 2-3 other clubs in their division and being a powerhouse for 5 of every 15 years then just decent (if you're lucky) ball clubs at other times. 

TL;DR - Yeah, the Yankees are better, but Boston has the pieces to make a run and they should give it a go. 

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3 hours ago, sngehl01 said:

This is really neither here nor there. The Red Sox are absolutely good enough to compete now. Chris Sale was pure dominance until this last year, writing him off and calling him toast after 1 year is a bit much for me. His HR rate was higher than ever before, but we also had the happy happy fun ball. Cole is coming off a season where he threw nearly 250 innings. 

The Red Sox may have "problems" with their pitching on paper right now but that really doesn't mean a thing. How many guys far outperformed expectations heading into 2019? Plenty. With the offensive strength of this club + their top 3 guys being capable arms they shouldn't be counted out, at all. They obviously wouldn't be my first, second, or even third choice to win the WS but they are far from having no chance to win it. 

They have some nice prospects as is. They have a team that can compete now. Give this season a shot and if you're not in it mail off Mookie at the deadline. If Price is throwing like he did the first half last year you don't even have to attach him to Betts to move him, or if you do you won't be washing so much of Betts value off. 

I really hate the all or nothing approach teams are taking now. Houston did it and I hated it then (though it's working out now). It's like teams are content trading 5 year windows of contention with 2-3 other clubs in their division and being a powerhouse for 5 of every 15 years then just decent (if you're lucky) ball clubs at other times. 

TL;DR - Yeah, the Yankees are better, but Boston has the pieces to make a run and they should give it a go. 

LOL!!!!!!  After Triston Casas and a little nod to Dalbec just named one decent prospect?  The cupboard is bare.  Dombrowski traded everyone else and would have traded Casas this year if he was still GM.  And every site that rates prospects by team says the same thing.  Boston's farm is in the bottom tier right now.

The problems with pitching are not on "paper" either.  Eovaldo has tanked.  Price is a head case.  Martin Perez wouldn't make the Yankee rotation as a middle reliever.  And Sale is a major concern with his arm now.  Only E-Rod looks solid going into this season.

The Red Sox are not taking an all or nothing approach.  They are attempting to get out from under two bad contract situations (remember 27 mil is what Mookie is drawing this season) so they can restock the farm while still being competitive.  They have Xander and JD signed up and they would love to have the money to secure Devers for years to come.

They are trying to avoid drastic draft penalities and money taken away from their allotment pool for international players which will occur this season unless they get under the luxury tax.  What is it about this that some people don't seem to get.  A poor farm + no restocking of same mean YEARS in the wilderness.  No replacements from the farm AND no prospects to trade for good vets other teams are trying to move.  They are trying to avoid that.  The only way they can do that is re-setting the luxury tax.  Period.

Again, Mookie was only the 4th best bat on the team last season.  His MVP season on 2018 corresponds with the allegations it was also the sign stealing system. No allegations have been made about season.  Therefore it is pretty logical to look at what he did last year as more his norm moving forward.  Which means that he is not the guy to put the team on his shoulders and carry them anywhere.

Edited by The Big Bat Theory

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3 hours ago, sngehl01 said:

Chris Sale was pure dominance until this last year, writing him off and calling him toast after 1 year is a bit much for me.

 

I never called him toast but it seems clear he is not the same dominant guy he was. 

Maybe he bounces back but it's hard to count on him being dominant after the last two years of being subpar.  Sale has always struggled late in seasons as his innings pitched got higher.   And David Price has also struggled the last three years with injuries.

 

I think the new GM was given the job of reshaping the team and wants to start right away rather than compete for a wildcard and hope for Gerrit Cole to stink or get hurt. It started last year when they didn't sign a closer for a team that was a year younger and coming off their World Series victory.  I wouldn't fault the Sox if they kept Mookie and the rest of the gang and gave it a shot.   Tough decision to trade Mookie but I do think it turns out to be a good decision in the long run if that package from L.A. is real.

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4 hours ago, sngehl01 said:

This is really neither here nor there. The Red Sox are absolutely good enough to compete now. Chris Sale was pure dominance until this last year, writing him off and calling him toast after 1 year is a bit much for me. His HR rate was higher than ever before, but we also had the happy happy fun ball. Cole is coming off a season where he threw nearly 250 innings. 

The Red Sox may have "problems" with their pitching on paper right now but that really doesn't mean a thing. How many guys far outperformed expectations heading into 2019? Plenty. With the offensive strength of this club + their top 3 guys being capable arms they shouldn't be counted out, at all. They obviously wouldn't be my first, second, or even third choice to win the WS but they are far from having no chance to win it. 

They have some nice prospects as is. They have a team that can compete now. Give this season a shot and if you're not in it mail off Mookie at the deadline. If Price is throwing like he did the first half last year you don't even have to attach him to Betts to move him, or if you do you won't be washing so much of Betts value off. 

I really hate the all or nothing approach teams are taking now. Houston did it and I hated it then (though it's working out now). It's like teams are content trading 5 year windows of contention with 2-3 other clubs in their division and being a powerhouse for 5 of every 15 years then just decent (if you're lucky) ball clubs at other times. 

TL;DR - Yeah, the Yankees are better, but Boston has the pieces to make a run and they should give it a go. 

I don't understand all the negatively on how the Astros rebuilt their team. They had a new owner and a new GM that inherited a pretty terrible team. Even the minor league system was terrible at the time and it's not like they could have gone all-in when Bud Norris was their best pitcher. How exactly would you have rebuilt differently?

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19 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

LOL!!!!!!  After Triston Casas and a little nod to Dalbec just named one decent prospect?  The cupboard is bare.  Dombrowski traded everyone else and would have traded Casas this year if he was still GM.  And every site that rates prospects by team says the same thing.  Boston's farm is in the bottom tier right now.

The cupboard is bare? What tells you that, some arbitrary top 100 list? Arms like Mata, Houck, Groome and Ward may not be top 100 specs but that have a lot of potential. Noah Song is down their prospect list but a nice prospect arm. Jarren Duran looks like he can be an outstanding OF too, he draws some walks, has 40+ SB speed and hits for a high average. You already mentioned Casas and Dalbec. Their system may not be great, or even really good, but they have some guys down there to help. 

19 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

The problems with pitching are not on "paper" either.  Eovaldo has tanked.  Price is a head case.  Martin Perez wouldn't make the Yankee rotation as a middle reliever.  And Sale is a major concern with his arm now.  Only E-Rod looks solid going into this season.

I mean, cool story bro? This is a lot of conjecture. 

19 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Again, Mookie was only the 4th best bat on the team last season.  His MVP season on 2018 corresponds with the allegations it was also the sign stealing system. No allegations have been made about season.  Therefore it is pretty logical to look at what he did last year as more his norm moving forward.  Which means that he is not the guy to put the team on his shoulders and carry them anywhere.

A wRC+ of 135 was their 4th best bat? I'm not sure if this helps your argument buddy (it was also one of the 25 best in baseball). I'm pretty confident anyone would take 30 homers, 16 SB and a .295 BA from their 4th best, or even 1st best, hitter. 

 

I don't know why saying Boston has the ability to win a world series this year is really going out on a limb. If they trade Betts then yeah, they should seriously focus on the future, but they could very well hold them and have more than a decent shot at it. Outside of NYY and Houston I don't know anyone who I'd say is definitively better. A's, Twins, Indians, can make an argument for any just like you can Boston. 

I'm not a Boston fan by any means, but I find it interesting some people are already writing them off as if they don't have a shot. They do, if they care to take it. 

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13 minutes ago, jctexan said:

I don't understand all the negatively on how the Astros rebuilt their team. They had a new owner and a new GM that inherited a pretty terrible team. Even the minor league system was terrible at the time and it's not like they could have gone all-in when Bud Norris was their best pitcher. How exactly would you have rebuilt differently?

I wouldn't do it differently? I mean, they were in no position to be competitive. They weren't trading off MVP candidates and former cy young award winners. The astros won 76 games in 2010, the red sox won 84 this past year with a down year from beintendi (assuming this isn't his norm - which it may be) and half seasons from sale and price. i'm not saying this team is gonna win 90, but stranger things have happened in baseball. This isn't a bad baseball team, but everyone is acting like they have no shot whatsoever. This is mind boggling. 
 

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30 minutes ago, Brooklyn Dude said:

 

I never called him toast but it seems clear he is not the same dominant guy he was. 

Maybe he bounces back but it's hard to count on him being dominant after the last two years of being subpar.  Sale has always struggled late in seasons as his innings pitched got higher.   And David Price has also struggled the last three years with injuries.

 

I think the new GM was given the job of reshaping the team and wants to start right away rather than compete for a wildcard and hope for Gerrit Cole to stink or get hurt. It started last year when they didn't sign a closer for a team that was a year younger and coming off their World Series victory.  I wouldn't fault the Sox if they kept Mookie and the rest of the gang and gave it a shot.   Tough decision to trade Mookie but I do think it turns out to be a good decision in the long run if that package from L.A. is real.

In 2018 he had a 2.11 era and a 0.86 whip. Went 12-4 and had 237 K's in 158 IP. Only missed about 5 starts that year. If that is subpar I love subpar pitchers.

Edited by FantasyGeek2018
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42 minutes ago, FantasyGeek2018 said:

In 2018 he had a 2.11 era and a 0.86 whip. Went 12-4 and had 237 K's in 158 IP. Only missed about 5 starts that year. If that is subpar I love subpar pitchers.

 

He missed most of August and September in 2018,  and missed more time in 2019. 

If healthy,  he can produce,  but that has become the question lately with him.

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1 hour ago, sngehl01 said:

I wouldn't do it differently? I mean, they were in no position to be competitive. They weren't trading off MVP candidates and former cy young award winners. The astros won 76 games in 2010, the red sox won 84 this past year with a down year from beintendi (assuming this isn't his norm - which it may be) and half seasons from sale and price. i'm not saying this team is gonna win 90, but stranger things have happened in baseball. This isn't a bad baseball team, but everyone is acting like they have no shot whatsoever. This is mind boggling. 
 

My question had nothing to do with Boston. They just won the World Series in 2018, so they obviously have talent and shouldn't be thinking about rebuilding. I've seen quite a few people taking shots at the way the Astros built their team this off-season (you said you hated it) and I don't understand why.   

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Sox are a paper tiger. Their bullpen is still trash.  I don't see Price/Sale/Eovaldi holding up all year. Price and Sale have shown signs of decline.  Eovalidi has been pretty average outside of about half a season in 2018 which is looking more like an aberration.  And it doesn't appear there's any imminent transactions that are going to help them in 2020. I don't see how they're going to be any better this year than last year. They'll hit with or without Mookie but I don't see a very good run prevention team here. 

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Appears Betts/Price to the Dodgers is complete with a 3rd team involved.  Conflicting reports of the 3rd team, possible Joc Pederson going to the Angels (for what??).  Others reporting the Twins as the third team (not sure for what).

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Dodgers send out Verdugo and Maeda, receive back Betts/Price.

 

Red Sox send out Price/Betts, receive Verdugo/Graterol

 

Twins send out Graterol, get back Maeda

 

Separate trade The Dodgers trade Pederson for Rengifo from the Angels.

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13 minutes ago, murraygd13 said:

Dodgers send out Verdugo and Maeda, receive back Betts/Price.

 

Red Sox send out Price/Betts, receive Verdugo/Graterol

 

Twins send out Graterol, get back Maeda

 

Separate trade The Dodgers trade Pederson for Rengifo from the Angels.

The twins wanting Maeda over Gaterol is interesting.

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7 minutes ago, tommyGunZ said:

Huge value boost for Price, right?

Probably not YUGE but this has to be great landing spot for him

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