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2020 MLB Sign Stealing Discussion

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Sign stealing is okay with me. I was even fine with PEDs. It's just a game. If people need to cheat to feel better so be it. They didn't steal a poor kid's lunch money.

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6 minutes ago, OaksterDan said:

 

Blatantly cheating at baseball is bad, yes.  But it's still just a game.  Kershaw is a "laughingstock" but he still makes his 30 million a year playing a game, so, tough to feel too bad for him.  Encouraging bodily harm via throwing a ball 95+ mph at somebody's head in retaliation for this is dangerous and stupid, and far far worse than cheating at a game.  Every time.  

Very well said. If anyone reading this thread DOESN'T agree with this attitude towards cheating vs. inflicing bodily harm, please step in the batters box vs. Chapman and take one to the thigh, then return to this thread. 

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29 minutes ago, OaksterDan said:

Blatantly cheating at baseball is bad, yes.  But it's still just a game.  Kershaw is a "laughingstock" but he still makes his 30 million a year playing a game, so, tough to feel too bad for him.  Encouraging bodily harm via throwing a ball 95+ mph at somebody's head in retaliation for this is dangerous and stupid, and far far worse than cheating at a game.  Every time.  

Agree to disagree. There are worse things than bodily harm and cheating somebody out of a lifelong goal is one of them.

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27 minutes ago, MSkibisky said:

Very well said. If anyone reading this thread DOESN'T agree with this attitude towards cheating vs. inflicing bodily harm, please step in the batters box vs. Chapman and take one to the thigh, then return to this thread. 

Can I have the $30 million paycheck and World Series ring?

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Just now, Hanghow said:

Can I have the $30 million paycheck and World Series ring?

Sure. But the thigh was just a guess. Could be ribs, could be helmet, could be hand.

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2 minutes ago, Hanghow said:

Agree to disagree. There are worse things than bodily harm and cheating somebody out of a lifelong goal is one of them.

BIG TIME disagree here. A fastball to the head could end ALL your goals. You do realize that could kill someone right? There is no excuse for that. EVER.

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9 minutes ago, MSkibisky said:

BIG TIME disagree here. A fastball to the head could end ALL your goals. You do realize that could kill someone right? There is no excuse for that. EVER.

I don't muster much outrage for people who cheat others out of something important and then come to physical harm as a direct result. Sorry. There's an easy way to avoid it. Not saying it's right, but I have more important things to worry about.

Edited by Hanghow
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Just now, Hanghow said:

I don't muster much outrage for people who cheat others out of something important and then come to physical harm as a direct result. Sorry.

We can just agree to disagree then, and that's fine. 

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21 hours ago, fletch44 said:

Have the catcher signal for a changeup and throw a fastball to the ribs. That will end these shenanigans real quick.

You get caught peaking or relaying signs from 2B or some coach doing it and you will get your batter drilled...when I was coaching HS baseball right around the end of my days doing it, the chart number wristbands were coming out - in a lot of ways these were designed to stop sign stealing from those trying to pick the coaches signs.   For my daughters fast pitch team we still use them and both the P and C have them on I read out a 3 digit number and they look at a wristband chart kind of like a QB has and both know what it is.  Obviously this works a little better with coach calling pitches.  But you could do same for Catchers, they look a their chart, and put down 3 number sequence.  

 

I mean wasnt one of the most famous HR in baseball history - Bobby Thomsons shot heard round the world supposedly the product of the Giants having a guy with Binoculars in the scoreboard in centerfield and then pulling or putting up some sort of number based on the pitch?  That was nearly 70 years ago and pitcher catchers haven't modernized?  

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4 hours ago, meh2 said:

20 years from now all signs will be communicated electronically using technology. And the headlines will be “Astros accused of using NASA technology to intercept signaling.”

LOL.  Yeah I posted a few posts up from you that they could have that technology now, not 20 years from now.  The NFL already uses it.

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I'm shopping Bregman in dynasty. Screw that guy, and screw every player who was complicit in this. It's like the old MVP Baseball games where you could "guess pitch". It's a disgrace, and I'm floored that so many people went along with it. The Astros are that person who cheats at Monopoly by stashing extra money under the table. Only the consequences here are far more real - positive for them, but negative for everyone else playing and the fans watching. I grew up in the steroid era and was devastated having so many childhood heroes fall from grace. This feels even more criminal. The pitcher-batter showdown matchup IS baseball. Timing is everything. They disgraced the sport, deliberately. A coordinated, calculated cheat code used over a significant period of time. I'm not sure what the punishment should be. It will be difficult to pinpoint the catalysts. In my eyes, every hitter who didn't say "don't bang the trash can during my at-bats" is complicit. They all had that option - just like players back in the day all had the option to NOT use steroids. Only this feels more calculated. I'm not fully against stripping the Astros of their 2017 title. I think letting them play the 2020 season, but excluded from the playoffs should be on the table. But I bet money will get in the way -- and in Manfred's eyes that will probably put even more of a microscope on this unwanted drama. But a few suspensions here and there, or fines, is far from enough. There need to be severe consequences that remind Hinch, Bregman, Springer and company every day how badly they f****** up, and how badly they disgraced the game. 

Edited by ChicksDigTheOPS
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You are shopping Bregman on a fantasy team because of this?  Really?  Too funny.  That is unless your fantasy team is stealing signs too.

Teams have stolen signs since the beginning of baseball.  With TV cameras it went up a notch.  Now it is digital devices.  Technology is not going to stop nor is sign stealing.  Again, use it to protect your signs because I am sure many teams are doing stuff just like more teams than the Blue Jays were probably doing it with the TV cameras.  Go the NFL route and just call signs out to the pitcher directly.  This is not rocket science.

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I still find it odd that nobody questioned the odd looking bat boy at the end of the Astros dugout.

giphy.gif

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10 hours ago, meh2 said:

I still find it odd that nobody questioned the odd looking bat boy at the end of the Astros dugout.

giphy.gif

Wasn't the narrative the Nats were changing signs every inning? Seems like it was common knowledge at least where the Astros were concerned. 

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14 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

You are shopping Bregman on a fantasy team because of this?  Really?  Too funny.  That is unless your fantasy team is stealing signs too.


If they have been consistently doing this over the last few years and the league finds a way to really put a stop to it, you have to imagine it will hurt the overall batting line for the players benefitting from it.  The Astros as a team have had the best k rate over the last 3 years and not sure anyone’s really close over the same time period, hard to think their sign stealing didn’t have a large part in all of that.

 

I would not be surprised to see a noticeable drop in their teams production next year.  Could affect each player differently and bregman for sure could just keep improving as he has each year, but wouldn’t be a terrible idea to discount everyone on that team just a bit.

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1 hour ago, BackyardBaseball said:

If they have been consistently doing this over the last few years and the league finds a way to really put a stop to it, you have to imagine it will hurt the overall batting line for the players benefitting from it.  The Astros as a team have had the best k rate over the last 3 years and not sure anyone’s really close over the same time period, hard to think their sign stealing didn’t have a large part in all of that.

I would not be surprised to see a noticeable drop in their teams production next year.  Could affect each player differently and bregman for sure could just keep improving as he has each year, but wouldn’t be a terrible idea to discount everyone on that team just a bit.

Bregman?  Really?  No one is going to lose much if any stats on the Astros next year let alone Bregman.  Overreaction much here I say.

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Bregman is an a-hole to begin with, cheating or no.  I, for one, am delighted to see this team properly called out for systematically cheating the game of baseball.  AJ and Luhnow, not to mention all the players, are going to be answering a lot of questions and their reputations will be forever tarnished.

I did find it funny that Alex Cora seems to be the connecting thread between the Sox iWatch cheating and the Astros video cheating.

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18 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

You are shopping Bregman on a fantasy team because of this?  Really?  Too funny.  That is unless your fantasy team is stealing signs too.

Teams have stolen signs since the beginning of baseball.  With TV cameras it went up a notch.  Now it is digital devices.  Technology is not going to stop nor is sign stealing.  Again, use it to protect your signs because I am sure many teams are doing stuff just like more teams than the Blue Jays were probably doing it with the TV cameras.  Go the NFL route and just call signs out to the pitcher directly.  This is not rocket science.

 

If I played purely for money I'd feel differently -- but I play fantasy baseball from the heart! I don't want Bregman on my squad for the same reason that I have had Ryan Braun and Nelson Cruz on my DND list for years. I believe in a sort of moral karma in sports, as nutty as that may sound. I may be missing out on some statistical opportunities, but I just capped off a keeper-league threepeat and I have no intention of tempting the Fantasy Baseball Gods! <-- this team has ZERO Astros players. This is not coincidence. I own Bregman in a deep dynasty. 😇

(It doesn't help that Bregman has always seemed like an arrogant little ****. I highly doubt he feels a speck of remorse about any of this - except in terms of public perception.)

From a vindictive perspective... damn does that Nats championship feel good. They embarrass a more talented team at home, and now Houston is probably the mosted widely hated team in American professional sports. The freaking New York Yankees seem endearing by comparison. 

Edited by ChicksDigTheOPS

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2 hours ago, BackyardBaseball said:


If they have been consistently doing this over the last few years and the league finds a way to really put a stop to it, you have to imagine it will hurt the overall batting line for the players benefitting from it.  The Astros as a team have had the best k rate over the last 3 years and not sure anyone’s really close over the same time period, hard to think their sign stealing didn’t have a large part in all of that.

 

I would not be surprised to see a noticeable drop in their teams production next year.  Could affect each player differently and bregman for sure could just keep improving as he has each year, but wouldn’t be a terrible idea to discount everyone on that team just a bit.

yea I don't think it will have a huge impact. but I also don't think  they have been hitting trash cans for every ab in every home series. atleast I would hope Houston would be smart enough to pick and choose when to cheat but u never know.

bregmans spilts were better 2 of last 3 years away. other year he was just  a little bit worse on the road. (which most hitters are)

 

yuli did have 966 ops at home vs 815 away (2017 he was better away)

springer same thing better away.

 

that is a huge crutch to know whats coming and you know it can only be used half the time so I don't think the overall production came from cheating. now who knows how many wins or clutch/key hits/runs where attributed to the cheating.

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On 11/15/2019 at 7:30 AM, FitzMagic said:

Sign stealing is okay with me. I was even fine with PEDs. It's just a game. If people need to cheat to feel better so be it. They didn't steal a poor kid's lunch money.

well they kinda are if they are taking a clean players roster spot and even league minimum.

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47 minutes ago, colepenhagen said:

well they kinda are if they are taking a clean players roster spot and even league minimum.

They didn't take a kid's lunch money, though, they only took... hold on a sec... his dad's job. 

Ouch, that's... like... much worse.

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