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2020 MLB Sign Stealing Discussion

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52 minutes ago, SpecialFNK said:

 

multiple Astros players said they lied to Manfred and that they did cheat in 2019? show me that.

Please don’t be obtuse.

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1 hour ago, SpecialFNK said:

 

I thought Correa's interview was brilliant. his memory of what happened in the World Series was spot on, the Dodgers failed with runners on base.

How does the Dodgers not hitting prove one way or another if the Astros were stealing signs? 

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On 2/17/2020 at 3:30 PM, SpecialFNK said:

 

  1. using the baseball as a weapon isn't how to punish players. that is vigilantly.
  2. you don't get the information without players talking, and players don't talk without immunity.
  3. players couldn't be punished, it was up to management to stop what was going on. one could fault AJ Hinch for that since he knew it was happening.

 

Totally agree...  I can see them getting throw at as it is baseball's way, I just hope that they don't head hunt...  Go for the hip...  But like you said, if there was no immunity, this would not even be in the news...

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2 minutes ago, Low and Away said:

How does the Dodgers not hitting prove one way or another if the Astros were stealing signs? 

 

I didn't say the Astros were not stealing signs. the Dodgers hurt themselves by failing in the WS. even if the Astros were stealing signs and cheating the Dodgers still could have won if they did better.

 

8 minutes ago, BMcP said:

Please don’t be obtuse.

you said "You are aware that multiple players have already spoken up saying that they are lying about not cheating in 2019.  It won’t be long before more evidence surfaces."

what did you mean? did Astros players say they lied? if so show me this. did non Astros players say the Astros must be lying? no doubt, I expect them to say that but they wouldn't know. their speculation and opinion don't really matter.

people saying the Astros must have cheated in 2019 are going by their opinion, not evidence.

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19 minutes ago, SpecialFNK said:

 

I didn't say the Astros were not stealing signs. the Dodgers hurt themselves by failing in the WS. even if the Astros were stealing signs and cheating the Dodgers still could have won if they did better.

 

you said "You are aware that multiple players have already spoken up saying that they are lying about not cheating in 2019.  It won’t be long before more evidence surfaces."

what did you mean? did Astros players say they lied? if so show me this. did non Astros players say the Astros must be lying? no doubt, I expect them to say that but they wouldn't know. their speculation and opinion don't really matter.

people saying the Astros must have cheated in 2019 are going by their opinion, not evidence.


and is there any truth to the commissioners report either? I mean we I haven't seen video of Astro's actually banging on trash cans. Shoot it's probably those guys from Major League dressed like Indians in the OF bleachers or could be just random!!! Unless there is irrefutable proof then by golly, it's a shame the MLB tossed the Astro's under the bus like this. #keepthelawyeringgoing lolololol

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52 minutes ago, SpecialFNK said:

what did you mean? did Astros players say they lied? if so show me this. did non Astros players say the Astros must be lying? no doubt, I expect them to say that but they wouldn't know. their speculation and opinion don't really matter.

I thought it was fairly obvious that I was referring to non-Astros players - specifically, players who played against the Astros last season.

So let me make sure I understand this correctly: whatever the Astros told Manfred does matter - even though no effort was made to substantiate their claims by way of obtaining actual evidence - but the opinions of players on other teams, playing within easy earshot of the Astros, don’t matter at all.  Do I have that right?

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It's hilarious that people believe them that they weren't cheating in 2019.  We already know Manfred's report left out details about 2017's cheating, which the Wall St Journal subsequently found out about and reported on.  Does anybody really think he went to great lengths to verify anything about 2019 with no Fiers-esque witnesses going public?

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4 minutes ago, OaksterDan said:

It's hilarious that people believe them that they weren't cheating in 2019.  We already know Manfred's report left out details about 2017's cheating, which the Wall St Journal subsequently found out about and reported on.  Does anybody really think he went to great lengths to verify anything about 2019 with no Fiers-esque witnesses going public?

Manfred “it’s only a piece of metal”wants all this stuff to disappear. 

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11 minutes ago, BMcP said:

I thought it was fairly obvious that I was referring to non-Astros players - specifically, players who played against the Astros last season.

So let me make sure I understand this correctly: whatever the Astros told Manfred does matter - even though no effort was made to substantiate their claims by way of obtaining actual evidence - but the opinions of players on other teams, playing within easy earshot of the Astros, don’t matter at all.  Do I have that right?

 

players had complete immunity. there was no reason for them to lie to Manfred. non Astros opinion/speculation on what they think or feel doesn't matter. did they KNOW the Astros were cheating and can they provide evidence to prove that, or are they speculating.

speculation should have no part in this, that is why there was an investigation into the Astros and it wasn't just assumed based on speculation.

 

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12 minutes ago, SpecialFNK said:

 

players had complete immunity. there was no reason for them to lie to Manfred. non Astros opinion/speculation on what they think or feel doesn't matter. did they KNOW the Astros were cheating and can they provide evidence to prove that, or are they speculating.

speculation should have no part in this, that is why there was an investigation into the Astros and it wasn't just assumed based on speculation.

 

giphy.gif

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8 minutes ago, SpecialFNK said:

 

players had complete immunity. there was no reason for them to lie to Manfred. non Astros opinion/speculation on what they think or feel doesn't matter. did they KNOW the Astros were cheating and can they provide evidence to prove that, or are they speculating.

speculation should have no part in this, that is why there was an investigation into the Astros and it wasn't just assumed based on speculation.

 


Manfred should have released a more thorough report if he didn't want speculation.  He purposefully left stuff out and acted pissed when it leaked.  Why should he be above questioning? 

Maybe he likes the headlines.  Baseball never gets this much attention in Jan/Feb.  It's usually basketball's offseason stealing MLB's in-season headlines.  

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48 minutes ago, SpecialFNK said:

 

players had complete immunity. there was no reason for them to lie to Manfred. non Astros opinion/speculation on what they think or feel doesn't matter. did they KNOW the Astros were cheating and can they provide evidence to prove that, or are they speculating.

speculation should have no part in this, that is why there was an investigation into the Astros and it wasn't just assumed based on speculation.

 

I actually set forth a valid reason above, which you quoted: they want to behave as if this was all in the distant past to make life easier on them this upcoming season.  
 

The players who have spoken up have provided evidence - they have claimed to have heard whistling, etc., emanating from the Astros dugout during at-bats.  Why Manfred would consider MLB to have conducted a thorough and full investigation without bothering to speak to players who were on the field with the Astros during games in 2019 is anyone’s guess.

So when Manfred says the Astros told him something and he chose to believe they were being honest, you don’t believe that’s a form of speculation?  Interesting indeed.

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MLB wants what's best for MLB. And they will only divulge what is necessary to try and make this go away.

 

NFL does this too. Remember Ray Rice? If that video tape never got released to the public, he'd probably still be playing (even with the NFL having knowledge of said tape). 

 

They only want to address what the public has proof of and hope to sweep the rest away.

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1 hour ago, shakestreet said:

 

Seems like we’re seeing an Astros story every 20 minutes, looking forward to when sports media gets something else to sink their teeth into.

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1 minute ago, Steve gar said:

Seems like we’re seeing an Astros story every 20 minutes, looking forward to when sports media gets something else to sink their teeth into.


that’s up to the Astros and Manfred. They haven’t done a good job squashing this. 

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1 hour ago, Steve gar said:

Seems like we’re seeing an Astros story every 20 minutes, looking forward to when sports media gets something else to sink their teeth into.

You’re a way-forward-looking thinker - I like it.

 

We haven’t even seen the report on the Sox yet.

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The Dodgers took the Astros to game 7, even with them cheating.

A 1 game swing, and it's a different out come.

Yet its LA fault they lost, because they should have played better?

Whoever says that is either a politician, or a lawyer.

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3 minutes ago, HOOTIE said:

The Dodgers took the Astros to game 7, even with them cheating.

A 1 game swing, and it's a different out come.

Yet its LA fault they lost, because they should have played better?

Whoever says that is either a politician, or a lawyer.


How any player can feel good winning like that is beyond me.  

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3 hours ago, Members_Only_76 said:

that’s up to the Astros and Manfred. They haven’t done a good job squashing this. 

I don't think there's anything they could do to squash it. There's a lot of people who want the title vacated and the players suspended. Anything short of that does nothing. Actually doing either of those things makes the story a hundred times bigger.

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2 minutes ago, SpartyOn4 said:

I don't think there's anything they could do to squash it. There's a lot of people who want the title vacated and the players suspended. Anything short of that does nothing. Actually doing either of those things makes the story a hundred times bigger.


I hear you but I think if Manfred and the Astros handled this differently and earlier in the off season things would be different now.

 

The other players would t be talking like this in camp. The media wouldn’t be dishing this much if the players and fans weren’t feeding it. 

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27 minutes ago, SpartyOn4 said:

I don't think there's anything they could do to squash it. There's a lot of people who want the title vacated and the players suspended. Anything short of that does nothing. Actually doing either of those things makes the story a hundred times bigger.

Title stripped, rings given back, world series bonuses given back, and real apologies and this will end. If not screw mlb and head hunt astro players all year. 

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Manfred loves this right now.  Going to be so good for ratings.  It’s like the WWE heel right now.  Everyone wants to see the Astros have guys ear holes spotted with 95 mph heaters.  Everyone will be on pins and needles seeing who goes after them.  They’re embracing the heel role with open arms apparently.  Correa broke his rib getting a massage. Guy should shut his pie hole.  Can’t even imagine what happens when 95 MPH spots him in ribs.  Will his body blow up?

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Don’t agree with Nick Markakis though. Not everyone deserves a beating.  Michael Brantley could roll out of bed and hit .300.  Guy is one of best natural hitters in baseball.  Alvarez had nothing to do with this.  Kyle Tucker didn’t.  Gurriel, Altuve, Bregman all fair game, Springer - Reddick - Correa should wear some.  The rest not worth going after.  Not everyone was associated with this scam.

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