jfazz23 2,529 Posted November 21, 2019 Author Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 hour ago, FitzMagic said: At the end of the day, cheating pays off. It's not like the Asstros will lose their WS title or bonuses will be given back, or people will lose their jobs. Oh no, just Brandon Taubman loses his job because the Asstros draw the line there. what if they lose, lets say 2 or 3 1st round draft picks and all of their international money for 3 years? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kenag122002 140 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 hour ago, jfazz23 said: what if they lose, lets say 2 or 3 1st round draft picks and all of their international money for 3 years? Sounds fair to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Low and Away 1,565 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Interesting as there is a rumor that Alex Cora maybe implicated with the Astros. He was a bench coach with the Astros in 2017. Just what baseball doesn't need is multiple WS but in doubt with scandals. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jfazz23 2,529 Posted November 22, 2019 Author Share Posted November 22, 2019 8 minutes ago, Low and Away said: Interesting as there is a rumor that Alex Cora maybe implicated with the Astros. He was a bench coach with the Astros in 2017. Just what baseball doesn't need is multiple WS but in doubt with scandals. yanks automatically win the previous 3 world series!!!! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Low and Away 1,565 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 1 minute ago, jfazz23 said: yanks automatically win the previous 3 world series!!!! Dodgers would have a better claim in two of those. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
meh2 3,133 Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 On 11/21/2019 at 1:52 PM, FitzMagic said: At the end of the day, cheating pays off. It's not like the Asstros will lose their WS title or bonuses will be given back, or people will lose their jobs. Oh no, just Brandon Taubman loses his job because the Asstros draw the line there. I have a strong feeling this will prove to be not true. This article from Fangraphs does a good job of highlighting some of the recent punishments doled out by MLB: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/what-the-astros-might-deserve/. I think the biggest punishment will come down to the originator of the cheating and I think the two most likely possibilities are the owner or the GM. If they have sufficient evidence, it won't surprise me in the least to see the ban hammer come out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChicksDigTheOPS 2,479 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 On 11/21/2019 at 1:04 PM, kenag122002 said: Sounds fair to me. not remotely enough imo. They used advanced cheating to steal a championship. wouldn't most franchises glady exchange some draft picks and international money for that? I mean, the point of the picks and $ is to win a title. it almost feels like a loop. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tonycpsu 5,212 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 It's not "fair", but there's no version of fair that changes the outcome. Even in the highly improbable event that the championship were somehow officially stripped, it doesn't change history. Everyone knows the Astros were champions in 2017, and no asterisk in a record book or taking down of banners changes that. So what else could be "fair" for this level of offense? Jeff Passan said recently on an ESPN podcast that the maximum fine allowed is $2 million, which is a rounding error on a slightly above replacement-level player's contract for one season. So a direct financial penalty isn't going to right this wrong. Multiple years of first round picks taken away will hurt them on the field, which will translate into some lost revenue as well, but you're right that any team would roll the dice on that proposition and hope to come out ahead. I'm sure there's a combination of the maximum fine, a number of picks lost, and suspensions of the GM, coach, and any players that were involved that would add up to the financial benefit of winning the title, but the math gets pretty fuzzy there. The right move here is probably just to do enough to deter future teams from cheating and then start a working group to analyze how to put an end to sign-stealing, which ironically will almost certainly involving some use of technology to transmit signs securely. As long as the tech exists, it will be used to cheat, and the one thing the Astros are correct about is that they're not the only ones. Better to use the tech to combat the cheating, which could also help pace of play by doing away with the increasingly complicated sets of signs in place to prevent them from being stolen. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hanghow 415 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 If a team is willing to run an illegal video feed in order to steal signs, then am I supposed to believe that they may not try to intercept verbal communications? Wouldn't the hitter hear the catcher, anyway, in a lot of cases? I don't understand the case for "technology" somehow solving the problem of teams being willing to blatantly cheat and steal from their opponents. There's not going to be a magic bullet if you're not willing to hammer teams that are caught doing it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tonycpsu 5,212 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Hanghow said: f a team is willing to run an illegal video feed in order to steal signs, then am I supposed to believe that they may not try to intercept verbal communications? Why would you assume verbal? Tech is small enough that the catcher could easily tap a tiny device out of view of the batter, baserunners, and opposing coaches. The signal from that could be sent to a pitcher via earpiece, a vibration in their glove, or whatever. Everything could be strongly-encrypted, and if a team can easily break modern encryption algorithms and not get caught, well, they can get themselves a lot more than a heads-up that a breaking ball is coming. And of course there's nothing saying MLB has to use tech *or* punish cheaters. They can do both. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Big Bat Theory 7,292 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 2 hours ago, Hanghow said: If a team is willing to run an illegal video feed in order to steal signs, then am I supposed to believe that they may not try to intercept verbal communications? Wouldn't the hitter hear the catcher, anyway, in a lot of cases? I don't understand the case for "technology" somehow solving the problem of teams being willing to blatantly cheat and steal from their opponents. There's not going to be a magic bullet if you're not willing to hammer teams that are caught doing it. The NFL uses direct signal calling from a coach to the QB. Put an earbud in one ear of a pitcher or maybe some sort of earpiece in his "reinforced" cap and call the pitches from the dugout. The NFL has made signal calling secure. It really isn't rocket science. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BMcP 8,122 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 On 11/26/2019 at 5:47 PM, The Big Bat Theory said: The NFL uses direct signal calling from a coach to the QB. Put an earbud in one ear of a pitcher or maybe some sort of earpiece in his "reinforced" cap and call the pitches from the dugout. The NFL has made signal calling secure. It really isn't rocket science. That assumes you’re comfortable leaving the catcher with no role in calling pitches - the one player best positioned to figure out what will work against a hitter he is directly adjacent to and has been studying closely all game. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
colepenhagen 3,476 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 35 minutes ago, BMcP said: That assumes you’re comfortable leaving the catcher with no role in calling pitches - the one player best positioned to figure out what will work against a hitter he is directly adjacent to and has been studying closely all game. just have catcher call it with a microphone in code. alpha bravo Charlie wisko tango Charlie wisko alpha bravo. sp shakes. meeting on the mound... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kenag122002 140 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 5 hours ago, colepenhagen said: just have catcher call it with a microphone in code. alpha bravo Charlie wisko tango Charlie wisko alpha bravo. sp shakes. meeting on the mound... Omaha, Omaha Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cs3 3,471 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 On 11/26/2019 at 2:47 PM, The Big Bat Theory said: The NFL uses direct signal calling from a coach to the QB. Put an earbud in one ear of a pitcher or maybe some sort of earpiece in his "reinforced" cap and call the pitches from the dugout. The NFL has made signal calling secure. It really isn't rocket science. Cool, now the catcher has no idea what's coming. Its much simpler to embed some kind of switch on the catcher's glove or wherever it can be hidden from view, and give the pitcher a receiver. No matter what they eventually do, I really doubt that teams ever start sending in all pitch calling from the dugout rather than having the catcher make the calls 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Overlord 527 Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 (edited) This is so much worse than a black eye for baseball. It throws into doubt the integrity of years of results and erodes fan confidence that they are watching a fair product. I mean, it's all bread and circuses anyway, but the least they can do is ensure that the teams play by the rules. [...] Edited December 14, 2019 by tonycpsu No politics here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tonycpsu 5,212 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Ken Rosenthal and Evan Drellich, The Athletic: MLB’s sign-stealing controversy broadens: Sources say the Red Sox used video replay room illegally in 2018 Quote Before the 2018 season, after years of barely enforcing its broad rules regarding replay rooms, the league made it crystal clear: Replay rooms cannot be used to help steal signs. The newly clarified rules, in combination with the fines the league levied on the Red Sox and Yankees and warnings it issued in ’17, were intended to end the replay-room chicanery. For the Red Sox, and possibly other clubs, it did not. Three people who were with the Red Sox during their 108-win 2018 season told The Athletic that during that regular season, at least some players visited the video replay room during games to learn the sign sequence opponents were using. The replay room is just steps from the home dugout at Fenway Park, through the same doors that lead to the batting cage. Every team’s replay staff travels to road games, making the system viable in other parks as well. [...] “It’s cheating,” one person who was with the 2018 Red Sox said. “Because if you’re using a camera to zoom in on the crotch of the catcher, to break down the sign system, and then take that information and give it out to the runner, then he doesn’t have to steal it.” The Red Sox declined to comment at the time of publication. Major League Baseball said in a statement, “The Commissioner made clear in a September 15, 2017 memorandum to clubs how seriously he would take any future violation of the regulations regarding use of electronic equipment or the inappropriate use of the video replay room. Given these allegations, MLB will commence an investigation into this matter. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
larfboy 268 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 On 1/7/2020 at 8:58 AM, tonycpsu said: Ken Rosenthal and Evan Drellich, The Athletic: MLB’s sign-stealing controversy broadens: Sources say the Red Sox used video replay room illegally in 2018 Damn...the Dodgers got hosed back to back World Series... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jfazz23 2,529 Posted January 11, 2020 Author Share Posted January 11, 2020 21 hours ago, larfboy said: Damn...the Dodgers got hosed back to back World Series... yanks would have beaten them both times anyways. 😁 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Big Bat Theory 7,292 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Houston loses it's manager for a year and important draft picks: Quote According to The Athletic, the Astros will lose first- and second-round picks each of the next two years and see both manager A.J. Hinch and GM Jeff Luhnow suspended for a year as punishment for illegally stealing signs during the 2017 season. The team will also be levied a $5 million fine, which is the maximum the league constitution allows. Former assistant GM Brandon Taubman, who was fired after a separate scandal two months ago, is getting placed on baseball's ineligible list. Former Astros bench coach and current Red Sox manager Alex Cora could also face a suspension at a later date. No players are being punished. That hardly seems right, but it makes things a whole lot easier for the league in not having to fight the MLBPA. Source: The Athletic Jan 13, 2020, 2:03 PM ET 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sonny_D 1,962 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Ban Cora and Hinch for life. Both overrated and suck anyway. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Baseball Jonze 360 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 This should have lifetime bans. Also interesting that no players - who were completely involved as well - seem to be getting punished. They cheated to win the World Series. Full Stop. Cheating to win is no different that using steroids. Every offensive player should be banned from HOF. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
billofwa 325 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 11 minutes ago, Sonny_D said: Ban Cora and Hinch for life. Both overrated and suck anyway. The majority of managers are overrated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FantasyGeek2018 406 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 They forgot to strip the titles also...Dodgers get both world series victories. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mikewastaken 413 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Jim Crane just fired them both on live TV. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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