jfazz23

2020 MLB Sign Stealing Discussion

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no coincidence the two teams under fire are responsible for the past 3 world series championships..punishments are warranted and players involved should be punished to some degree. 

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Good, screw 'em. The question is if it's enough to stop this, and I'm not sure it is.

At minimum all the Astros offensive players knew about it. Either everyone gets punished or no one since it'd be impossible to prove if one player was more involved than another. They probably didn't want to get in a pissing match with the MLBPA. Comes across as weak.

I'd expect Astros players numbers to be down across the board. This scandal resulted in such an advantage.

 

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Cora looks to have been the mastermind, but Hinch let it go on.  Also players have MLBPA protecting them first and far-most so justice against players might be slower in coming. 

Players all knew and went along with it.  Fiers knew and he was a pitcher.

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Have always been a bit bitter how the Astros tanked so hard and completely gamed the system to build a contender. They were within their right to do so but it still always felt so cheap. This whole sign stealing thing just shows how far they were willing to go and how little integrity they have. Glad they got a stiff punishment.

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Wow. I think they are essentially banned for life, no franchise is gonna touch this sort of toxicity.

And it's warranted too, they needed to do more than just deter this stuff.

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Beltran was a player at the time - did he take part?  Passan seems to be saying players will not be punished at all - just the management and organizations.  Hopefully HOF voters treat these players the same they treat the steroid cheats and Pete Rose. 

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1 hour ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Houston loses it's manager for a year and important draft picks:

 

has Boston been punished yet?  you think cora gets a year too?

 

1st and 2nd round draft pick next 2 years

Edited by jfazz23

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46 minutes ago, Baseball Jonze said:

This should have lifetime bans.  Also interesting that no players - who were completely involved as well - seem to be getting punished. 

They cheated to win the World Series.  Full Stop.

Cheating to win is no different that using steroids.  Every offensive player should be banned from HOF. 

 

no one thought players would be punished tbh.  but i agree. this is worse than what pete rose did

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I think it's possible Cora gets more. He was apparently firmly entrenched in the Houston saga before the replay booth scheme in Boston. I don't see how his punishment will be any less. If I were MLB I'd be getting this over with as soon as possible.

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2 minutes ago, jfazz23 said:

has Boston been punished yet?  you think cora gets a year too?

Pure speculation on my part but I’d expect Boston ownership to follow Houston’s lead here and fire Cora.

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Just now, meh2 said:

Pure speculation on my part but I’d expect Boston ownership to follow Houston’s lead here and fire Cora.

 

not sure if they are related, but im wondering if this makes the new GM trade Betts and try to rebuild farm system

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MLB could have gotten out ahead of this after other sign-stealing scandals, or taken proactive steps to eliminate sign-stealing using technology of their own.  Instead they waited until titles were tainted.

 

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53 minutes ago, Low and Away said:

The Astro's have gone a step farther and fired both the GM and manager.

 

Done. Boom.

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1 hour ago, TribeFoo said:

Good, screw 'em. The question is if it's enough to stop this, and I'm not sure it is.

At minimum all the Astros offensive players knew about it. Either everyone gets punished or no one since it'd be impossible to prove if one player was more involved than another. They probably didn't want to get in a pissing match with the MLBPA. Comes across as weak.

I'd expect Astros players numbers to be down across the board. This scandal resulted in such an advantage.

 

 

How much? You can't possibly say.

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2 minutes ago, sportsfreak2744 said:

 

How much? You can't possibly say.

 

No, but I think we can all agree that knowing what pitch is coming is an immense advantage.

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Wow.  Good for MLB.  Get those cheaters out of the game and fire their asses.  They have no business having anything more to do with baseball.  Feel for my 2017 Yankees, but also, every single person adversely affected by their arrogance.  This will set the Astros back for ages to come.

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23 minutes ago, jfazz23 said:

 

not sure if they are related, but im wondering if this makes the new GM trade Betts and try to rebuild farm system

 

Why would you ever blow up a roster when their best hitters are:

Devers (23), Benintendi (25), Bogaerts (27), Betts (27), Martinez (32)

 

That's the make of a team in the middle of it's window, not the end.

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1 minute ago, sportsfreak2744 said:

 

Why would you ever blow up a roster when their best hitters are:

Devers (23), Benintendi (25), Bogaerts (27), Betts (27), Martinez (32)

 

That's the make of a team in the middle of it's window, not the end.

 

no bullpen, if sale is now a 4 ERA guy then they dont have SP to compete.  no farm system.  betts is gone next year regardless.  who knows what Tendi is.  who knows if JDMs back doesnt get worse an the best is behind him.  morale might be low if Cora gets a year....

not to mention they may lose top draft picks for the next 2 years...possibly 3rd or 4th best team in division.  

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2 minutes ago, TribeFoo said:

 

No, but I think we can all agree that knowing what pitch is coming is an immense advantage.

Data seems inconclusive at best.  Could make a case that knowing the pitch is a form of a mind screw.  

 

Beltran seemed to do worse when knowing. But i think I'd agree with you,  just haven't decided to what extent.  

 

I'd be willing to be convinced otherwise,  but I'd put this behind PED use in terms of flagrant cheating

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1 minute ago, jfazz23 said:

 

no bullpen, if sale is now a 4 ERA guy then they dont have SP to compete.  no farm system.  betts is gone next year regardless.  who knows what Tendi is.  who knows if JDMs back doesnt get worse an the best is behind him.  morale might be low if Cora gets a year....

not to mention they may lose top draft picks for the next 2 years...possibly 3rd or 4th best team in division.  

 

I'm pretty confident in saying that not all of these negative outcomes will come to fruition.

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35 minutes ago, jfazz23 said:

has Boston been punished yet?  you think cora gets a year too?

 

1st and 2nd round draft pick next 2 years

Yes.  Alex already making travel plans to relocate to Puerto Rico

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Just now, WahooManiac said:

Data seems inconclusive at best.  Could make a case that knowing the pitch is a form of a mind screw.  

 

Beltran seemed to do worse when knowing. But i think I'd agree with you,  just haven't decided to what extent.  

 

I'd be willing to be convinced otherwise,  but I'd put this behind PED use in terms of flagrant cheating

 

using electronics to steal signs is systematic.  steroids (unless teams were distributing) arent.  id actually say this is worse than individual steroid use (although i hated/hate steroid use)

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