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2020 MLB Sign Stealing Discussion

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33 minutes ago, meh2 said:

Pure speculation on my part but I’d expect Boston ownership to follow Houston’s lead here and fire Cora.

I’d expect this to happen this afternoon or tomorrow

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Just now, sportsfreak2744 said:

 

I'm pretty confident in saying that not all of these negative outcomes will come to fruition.

 

dont have to.  really if 2 come into play boston is at best the 3rd best team in division. they def dont have a pen, so basically if Sale isnt a 220 inning 2.7 era guy they are prob an 85 win team

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24 minutes ago, tonycpsu said:

MLB could have gotten out ahead of this after other sign-stealing scandals, or taken proactive steps to eliminate sign-stealing using technology of their own.  Instead they waited until titles were tainted.

 

No idea why Mr. Spaeder assumes MLB has “skirted responsibility” for any of these - they are quite partially responsible for all.

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He's using "responsibility" in the "accountability" sense.  One can be responsible for failing to act to prevent something without taking responsibility, and that's what  they seem to be doing.

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14 minutes ago, sportsfreak2744 said:

 

Why would you ever blow up a roster when their best hitters are:

Devers (23), Benintendi (25), Bogaerts (27), Betts (27), Martinez (32)

 

That's the make of a team in the middle of it's window, not the end.

makes me wonder if it is time to sell offensive players involved in these scandals..im going to assume that their numbers will drop this upcoming season as they get acquainted to playing fair ball.

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I think I'm in the minority, where I really don't care if the Astros were stealing signs.I don't think that is what made them a great team or what made the difference in them winning the World Series. but maybe I'm naive or ignorant to the scope of everything.

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If those were the numbers Benintendi put up WITH help I'll be watching his ABs through my fingers this year.

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10 minutes ago, SpecialFNK said:

I think I'm in the minority, where I really don't care if the Astros were stealing signs.I don't think that is what made them a great team or what made the difference in them winning the World Series. but maybe I'm naive or ignorant to the scope of everything.

disregard this post..posted twice

Edited by larfboy

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3 minutes ago, larfboy said:

coincidence the last 3 World Series championships involves Astros and Red Sox? 

 

their teams were still stacked with talent.

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2 minutes ago, SpecialFNK said:

I think I'm in the minority, where I really don't care if the Astros were stealing signs.I don't think that is what made them a great team or what made the difference in them winning the World Series. but maybe I'm naive or ignorant to the scope of everything.

coincidence the last 2/3 World Series championships involves Astros and Red Sox with Astros having barely lost to the Nats this past year? 

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11 minutes ago, SpecialFNK said:

I think I'm in the minority, where I really don't care if the Astros were stealing signs.I don't think that is what made them a great team or what made the difference in them winning the World Series. but maybe I'm naive or ignorant to the scope of everything.

I don't have the time to look right now, but I have seen a thread on twitter detailing the cheating and how it coincided with how well the astros played at home and all the big offensive stats that go with it. It was a giant advantage to know whether a FB or off-speed pitch was coming.

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13 minutes ago, SpecialFNK said:

I think I'm in the minority, where I really don't care if the Astros were stealing signs.I don't think that is what made them a great team or what made the difference in them winning the World Series. but maybe I'm naive or ignorant to the scope of everything.

Im with ya. Not saying it's zero,  not i feel like this advantage isn't the game changer it's being made into.  

Stros are going to regret firing this gm. 

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5 minutes ago, ST. STEVEN said:

I don't have the time to look right now, but I have seen a thread on twitter detailing the cheating and how it coincided with how well the astros played at home and all the big offensive stats that go with it. It was a giant advantage to know whether a FB or off-speed pitch was coming.

 

but the same thing could be said about any team more comfortable playing at home. this doesn't have the mean it was because they were cheating with knowing signs.

if the Astros were not stealing signs with this technology, would they have been stealing signs the old fashioned way which is simply part of baseball history.

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12 minutes ago, ST. STEVEN said:

I don't have the time to look right now, but I have seen a thread on twitter detailing the cheating and how it coincided with how well the astros played at home and all the big offensive stats that go with it. It was a giant advantage to know whether a FB or off-speed pitch was coming.

I have the time,  and the advantage doesn't strike me as giant. They were better on the road lol. 

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/which-players-might-have-benefited-from-the-astros-sign-stealing/

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/how-much-did-the-astros-really-benefit-from-sign-stealing/

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/if-the-astros-stole-signs-how-much-did-it-help-them/

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6 minutes ago, SpecialFNK said:

 

but the same thing could be said about any team more comfortable playing at home. this doesn't have the mean it was because they were cheating with knowing signs.

if the Astros were not stealing signs with this technology, would they have been stealing signs the old fashioned way which is simply part of baseball history.

Sign stealing the old fashioned way I’m fine with that’s baseball. Going this far with technology and banging garbage cans is ridiculous. There’s no defending it. It has to be punished 

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LOL at astro apologists saying it was not a big deal. Did you watch how close the games in the world series were.....Maybe if your team got robbed of the title you would care more. They need to be stripped. Punishment is not close to severe enough yet.

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3 minutes ago, BxBOMBERs28 said:

Sign stealing the old fashioned way I’m fine with that’s baseball. Going this far with technology and banging garbage cans is ridiculous. There’s no defending it. It has to be punished 

 

I understand a punishment because as far as I know it's in the rules. but I don't think it's as big of a deal as people want to make it out to be.

from what I remember on MLB network, this specific video room used for stealing signs is different than the regular video room. this specific room used for the cheating should be off limits during game time.

 

 

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40 minutes ago, larfboy said:

makes me wonder if it is time to sell offensive players involved in these scandals..im going to assume that their numbers will drop this upcoming season as they get acquainted to playing fair ball.


I believe the Red Sox only did it 2018? Correct me if wrong 

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23 minutes ago, WahooManiac said:

oh yea are you suuuuure about that??

 

2017 Astros Postseason Offensive Stats 

Home 9 games 

Runs/G - 5.7

Average - .273

HRs - 18

Ks - 49

OBP - .343

 

Road 9 games 

Runs/G - 3.0 

Average - .208 

HRs - 9

Strikeouts - 80 

OBP - .284

this proves nothing by the way BUT THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU CHEAT. Now we have a right to question everything the Astros have done the last few years. This Championship is forever tarnished and that’s  the biggest punishment there is. They deserve everything they received and more 

Edited by BxBOMBERs28
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12 minutes ago, SpecialFNK said:

 

I understand a punishment because as far as I know it's in the rules. but I don't think it's as big of a deal as people want to make it out to be.

from what I remember on MLB network, this specific video room used for stealing signs is different than the regular video room. this specific room used for the cheating should be off limits during game time.

 

 

I couldn’t disagree more. I think it’s a big deal using electronics during a game to figure out what pitch it coming. Takes away the whole deception of the game. You think pitchers don’t think it a big deal? 

Edited by BxBOMBERs28
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9 minutes ago, BxBOMBERs28 said:

I couldn’t disagree more. I think it’s a big deal using electronics during a game to figure out what pitch it coming. Takes away the whole deception of the game. You think pitchers don’t think it a a big deal? 

It's a big deal for the game, but it's more a sign of baseball as a sport being behind the times, while the world evolves around them. 

So in an X's and O's sense. Sign stealing is worse, It's also a baseball only problem, that it could address. Where the steroids problem was less in a X's and O's sense but had a more morally wrong sense. Where everyone in any competitive sport agrees its bad.

Edited by Slatykamora
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6 minutes ago, BxBOMBERs28 said:

I couldn’t disagree more. I think it’s a big deal using electronics during a game to figure out what pitch it coming. Takes away the whole deception of the game. You think pitchers don’t think it a big deal? 

 

people have been stealing signs with a different method for a very long time in baseball. stealing signs with this technology is wrong because as far as I know it's written in the rules, but stealing signs in general is not.

 

 

12 minutes ago, BxBOMBERs28 said:

lmao oh yea are you suuuuure about that??

 

2017 Astros Postseason Offensive Stats 

Home 9 games 

Runs/G - 5.7

Average - .273

HRs - 18

Ks - 49

OBP - .343

 

Road 9 games 

Runs/G - 3.0 

Average - .208 

HRs - 9

Strikeouts - 80 

OBP - .284

this proves nothing by the way BUT THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU CHEAT. Now we have a right to question everything the Astros have done the last few years. This Championship is forever tarnished and that’s  the biggest punishment there is. They deserve everything they received and more 

 

I think it could make a difference who the pitchers Houston was facing.

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1 hour ago, SpecialFNK said:

I think I'm in the minority, where I really don't care if the Astros were stealing signs.I don't think that is what made them a great team or what made the difference in them winning the World Series. but maybe I'm naive or ignorant to the scope of everything.

I don't think it was that big of a deal because I think every team does something these days and has for some time.

"Technology" banned but sign stealing otherwise is okay and actually encouraged?  That's stupid.  Toronto stole signs for years using sophisticated cameras from a hotel room (there was a hotel inside the park with rooms facing the outfield) at their old park.  Every team in the AL East changed up signs like every inning because everyone knew they were doing it.  No one got on them for using technology.  And cameras are technology too.

Technology isn't going away.  Use it to hide your signs.  Don't ban it.

And yes I'm a Sox fan but I defended Houston before the Sox video room thing came out.

51 minutes ago, SpecialFNK said:

 

but the same thing could be said about any team more comfortable playing at home. this doesn't have the mean it was because they were cheating with knowing signs.

if the Astros were not stealing signs with this technology, would they have been stealing signs the old fashioned way which is simply part of baseball history.

Probably.  Or they would have used Toronto's technology of cameras.  I'd guess a lot of teams still use cameras one way of the other.  Hell, a good quality cell phone (or slightly "enhanced" mock-up one) being used by a "fan" in the outfield while apparently just texting friends during a game could be used now.  You cannot stop the march of technology.  Use it to hide stuff and get off the high horse.  The technology genie is out of the bottle and will never be put back in.

 

31 minutes ago, Fbaseballgod said:


I believe the Red Sox only did it 2018? Correct me if wrong 

Yep.  Lead to one of their worst years ever, haha.

19 minutes ago, Slatykamora said:

It's a big deal for the game, but it's more a sign of baseball as a sport being behind the times, while the world evolves around them. 

So in an X's and O's sense. Sign stealing is worse, It's also a baseball only problem, that it could address. Where the steroids problem was less in a X's and O's sense but had a more morally wrong sense. Where everyone in any competitive sport agrees its bad.

I concur.  Yes both Houston and Boston broke rules and have to be punished but the rules are silly in this day and age because sign stealing has always been condoned and encouraged in baseball.  Saying one method of sign stealing is bad and another is good makes no sense.  It's like saying it's good to hand in a hand written book report but bad to hand in a word processor / printed out one.  Makes zero sense to me.  Like the rules committee is living back in the 18th century.

Again you CAN use technology to hide your signs just as well as steal them.  That's the "cure".  Not pretending you don't live in the 21st century.

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48 minutes ago, Fbaseballgod said:


I believe the Red Sox only did it 2018? Correct me if wrong 

 

Image result for ok gif

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