fletch44

Corey Kluber 2020 Outlook

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Unfortunate. I liked him as a rebound candidate.  Would still draft him, but will be moving him down my list with his home park.

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5 hours ago, Light Tower Power said:

^^^Probably better than his old park with the short porch in right versus lefties. They blasting the AC all summer long this year.

Yeah what is the new ballpark in Texas like other than AC finally.  Don't know how players avoided serious heatstroke at the old ballpark there in the past.  Anyway the Rangers seem to be on the rise somewhat so maybe this will be a decent landing spot for Kluber.  At least their management is spending money unlike the cheapskate Indians ownership.

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Wow the Indians just gave him away, salary dump, I'm surprised more teams weren't in on him considering how little they had to give up.

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This may make Kluber more valuable. If you believe in him as a comeback candidate he will be good no matter where he is pitching. If people really drop him do the the change in ballpark it is misguided; realistically, the change in park should have a minimal effect on him.

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He is used up.  

Now he is in a lot better hitter's park.

No thanks.

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4 hours ago, B&F said:

He is used up.  

Now he is in a lot better hitter's park.

No thanks.

How do you know it is a better hitter's park?  It's brand new and never been played in yet.

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CLE picked up option and then traded him for a RP and a pinch runner/defensive replacement type?

Something doesn't add up.

 

 

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not reliant on a zippy fastball - I don't see why he can't rebound from injury and win 14ish games with a sub 3.50 ERA and a solid helping of strikeouts. I think a lot of folks are off him, I like Kluber as a (potential) draft day value. 

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4 hours ago, papasmurf said:

CLE picked up option and then traded him for a RP and a pinch runner/defensive replacement type?

Something doesn't add up.

 

 

 

They picked up the option just so they could trade him, rather than lose him for nothing.  They probably thought they'd get more in the trade though, for sure.  

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Old stadium had that ridiculous jet stream out to RCF/RF, so sometimes it dimensions sometimes its conditions.  I would have to think the newer park being inside wont have those kinds of conditions but who knows.  

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Rangers are doing some good, they just gave up a reliever for Kluber and added

Rangers signed LHP Joely Rodriguez to a two-year, $5.5 million contract.

The deal, as reported by Jon Morosi of MLB.com and Jeff Passan of ESPN, includes a club option for a third season. Rodriguez, 28, just finished off a successful 2019 stint in Japan where he posted a 1.64 ERA and 77/14 K/BB ratio over 60 1/3 innings with the Chunichi Dragons. The southpaw was reportedly touching 100 mph in NPB, so he's an intriguing bullpen addition for Texas.

there should have been 29 other teams on this guy, lefty throwing 100 77/14 kratio?

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On 12/15/2019 at 7:19 PM, azeri98 said:

Wow the Indians just gave him away, salary dump, I'm surprised more teams weren't in on him considering how little they had to give up.

 

im kinda pissed the yanks didnt go after him.  i think a lot of teams fans should be.  how do the angels not go after him??? or dodgers? mets? braves? phils? brews? cards? cubs?

i mean so many teams could use him

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I mean, is it possible the Rangers made this offer in jest and uncorked the champagne when it was accepted? This deal only makes sense if Kluber truly is toast. If he regains form and pitches like a #1 or #2 it's indefensible for the Indians.

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Just now, TribeFoo said:

I mean, is it possible the Rangers made this offer in jest and uncorked the champagne when it was accepted? This deal only makes sense if Kluber truly is toast. If he regains form and pitches like a #1 or #2 it's indefensible for the Indians.

 

i mean, i imagine the Rangers will give him  a physical/MRI so if there is structural dmg on his arm they will see it...

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7 hours ago, ChicksDigTheOPS said:

not reliant on a zippy fastball - I don't see why he can't rebound from injury and win 14ish games with a sub 3.50 ERA and a solid helping of strikeouts. I think a lot of folks are off him, I like Kluber as a (potential) draft day value. 

 

This it the key.  He has to turn into Rich Hill throwing all curveballs.   All his other pitches were absolute garbage.

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3 hours ago, B&F said:

 

This it the key.  He has to turn into Rich Hill throwing all curveballs.   All his other pitches were absolute garbage.

um according to fangraphs his FB velocity was 93 in 2017 when he won 18 games and the cy young with a 2.25 era. it was 92.4 in 2018 when he had a 2.89 era and 3rd in cy young. 

last year before his fracture forearm he was avg 92.3 on his 4 seam.  his cutter is also within .5 of the previous couple years......and hes always been a second half pitcher.  so he isnt much off his 2017/2018 velocity

Edited by jfazz23

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I don’t think Kluber has lost a ton of velo, but he’s lost some and he’ll continue to lose more as he ages. I found this tweet interesting:


There’s obviously sample size issues when looking at last year’s data, but I attribute his ineffectiveness to 3 things:

1. Loss of command. In March/April he gave up 15 free passes in just 31 innings. That was more than any other stretch in his career. He also hit 3 batters. That was the same as he had in 215 innings in 2018.

2. Ineffectiveness of his sinker. All 4 of his home runs allowed came off his sinker in just 163 pitches. Compare that to 2018 when he threw 1005 sinkers and gave up 10 home runs. Hitters hit .390 off it with a .732 slugging % off it. His four seamer was also quite hittable but over an even smaller sample.

3. Loss of spin rate. Spin rate off his cutter dropped from 2604 to 2503. His curve dropped from 2607 to 2538. Four seamer dropped from 2410 to 2332. His curve was still an elite pitch as hitters hit .176 off it with a 37.2% whiff rate. But compare that to his Cy Young season in 2017 when hitters hit .099 off it with a 49.0% whiff rate.

Despite all that I think Kluber can still be effective in 2020 but he might have to make some changes to his pitch mix, i.e. more curves and cutters and fewer sinkers and four seamers.

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I think Kluber's best days may be coming to an end. He's pitched a lot of innings for the Tribe and he may not have too many more good years left in his arm. I think the Indians used the trade mainly as a salary dump. The Indians don't have a lot of spare cash so they have to spend it wisely and they probably think Kluber is expendable as he enters the next season at age 34. I think it was a risk avoidance trade for them.

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6 hours ago, BCMarch10 said:

I think Kluber's best days may be coming to an end. He's pitched a lot of innings for the Tribe and he may not have too many more good years left in his arm. I think the Indians used the trade mainly as a salary dump. The Indians don't have a lot of spare cash so they have to spend it wisely and they probably think Kluber is expendable as he enters the next season at age 34. I think it was a risk avoidance trade for them.

His family is worth 5.5 billion dollars, he’s made over 500+ million on his investment of initially buying team in early 2000s.  He has plenty of spare cash, he’s just a cheap piece of s*** disgrace of an owner who won’t ever win anything for city of Cleveland as long as he’s writing the checks.  Larry is a disgrace.  Don’t make excuses for this loser.  He sucks.  

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On 12/16/2019 at 7:51 PM, jfazz23 said:

 

im kinda pissed the yanks didnt go after him.  i think a lot of teams fans should be.  how do the angels not go after him??? or dodgers? mets? braves? phils? brews? cards? cubs?

i mean so many teams could use him

I was pissed my team didn’t beat that offer too.  On the flip side, there has to be a reason for that right?  Safe to say mlb teams have more intel on players than we do.  The fact that no one offered more than a very underwhelming package is a bit of a red flag.  

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