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Tom Brady 2020 Outlook

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12 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

 

That's because Peyton connects with the average American. Brady does not.

 

No he doesn’t. Peyton has been royalty ever since he was born — and has demanded to be treated as such. 
 

Brady is the exact opposite.

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It would really stink if all the wheels fall off this year for Brady with the supporting cast he will have. 

I would love to see a 40 TD year out of him. 

Brady better for Arians hand to get OJ int he mix more. With the type of arm Brady has now, he is gonna need that athletic big man over the middle often. 

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Arians does not change his system for ANYONE.

That's why he got fired in Pittsburgh.  Yes they won Superbowls, but he was about to get Big Ben killed.

Andrew Luck got sacked so many times playing for Arians that he ended up retiring early.

Carson Palmer got sacked silly in Arizona under Arians, and ended up getting a couple of serious injuries, and that was it.

But he will change it for Brady.  He says.  Yeah.

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27 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Arians does not change his system for ANYONE.

That's why he got fired in Pittsburgh.  Yes they won Superbowls, but he was about to get Big Ben killed.

Andrew Luck got sacked so many times playing for Arians that he ended up retiring early.

Carson Palmer got sacked silly in Arizona under Arians, and ended up getting a couple of serious injuries, and that was it.

But he will change it for Brady.  He says.  Yeah.


Spot on 🦈 

 

he’s already made comments to that end.  
Brady will have some input but Arians runs his system and that won’t ever change.  He’ll retire before it happens. 

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4 hours ago, joshua18 said:

No he doesn’t. Peyton has been royalty ever since he was born — and has demanded to be treated as such. 
 

Brady is the exact opposite.

I have hated Tom Brady and the Patriots for a long long time.  That said I respect the hell out of his work ethic and his outlook.  He's always putting himself mentally as the underdog, constantly saying he has a lot of work to do to improve and putting in the time to get better out of his craft.

That said, I think to the average American he sounds like a perfect football specimen created in a lab.  While it's true that his draft status and his days at Michigan made him an underdog, he passed that territory in most Americans minds a LONG LONG time ago.  So now I would say that his mindset when being interview sounds alien to a lot of folks.  He doesn't celebrate his success, he ignores it and almost laments it publicly.

Of course, I am definitely biased, like I said initially.  I don't think Peyton is necessary more relatable, but I think his public persona is.  He's Archie's kid and Eli's bro, but he's also the "cut that meat" guy.  Brady acts like a perfect human specimen.  Peyton acts like your goofy neighbor.

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10 hours ago, joshua18 said:

No he doesn’t. Peyton has been royalty ever since he was born — and has demanded to be treated as such. 
 

Brady is the exact opposite.

 

Pretty sure they both grew up wealthy, Brady just didn't have the football pedigree of the Mannings.

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40 minutes ago, sSektor said:

 

Pretty sure they both grew up wealthy, Brady just didn't have the football pedigree of the Mannings.

Yeah.  Not sure Peyton has “demanded” much of anything as far as media attention is concerned.

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34 minutes ago, BMcP said:

Yeah.  Not sure Peyton has “demanded” much of anything as far as media attention is concerned

Bingo.    All PFM ever demanded was his teammates putting as much time into the offense and winning as he did.   Nobody studied more or worked harder.    Coming from a football family drove Peyton to be greater than even his famous dad.   

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4 hours ago, Impreza178 said:

Bingo.    All PFM ever demanded was his teammates putting as much time into the offense and winning as he did.   Nobody studied more or worked harder.    Coming from a football family drove Peyton to be greater than even his famous dad.   


Peyton always demanded the most money, the most attention and the least responsibility when things went wrong. He always threw teammates under the bus when they lost big games — the 2005 divisional playoffs vs PIT when he did that to his O-line is just one example. Getting Jim Mora fired less than one month after being called out publicly for leading the league in pick-sixes is another.

 

In return his teams got the greatest regular season QB of all  time and a lot of first rd playoff byes.

 

Brady studied harder, and did far more with less talent. Peyton had a HOF RB the first 8 years of his career (Faulk, Edge) while Brady had none — just one example.

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2 hours ago, joshua18 said:


Peyton always demanded the most money, the most attention and the least responsibility when things went wrong. He always threw teammates under the bus when they lost big games — the 2005 divisional playoffs vs PIT when he did that to his O-line is just one example. Getting Jim Mora fired less than one month after being called out publicly for leading the league in pick-sixes is another.

 

In return his teams got the greatest regular season QB of all  time and a lot of first rd playoff byes.

 

Brady studied harder, and did far more with less talent. Peyton had a HOF RB the first 8 years of his career (Faulk, Edge) while Brady had none — just one example.

Brady cheated for years - and benefited for years from people cheating on his behalf.  

In return, his teams got many SB victories.  
 

If Peyton was doing all this “demanding” to have the most money, he sure wasn’t very good at it.  But he was a tremendous player, one of the best ever, and treated the rules of the game - and his fellow players and coaches - with due respect.

 

 

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Neither Peyton Manning nor Tom Brady are perfect (although Tom's face still is at 43--creepy).  Both have their flaws and both lost plenty of big games.  

But now imagine this:  If Peyton had played for Bill Belichick.

How many championships would they have won together?

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15 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Neither Peyton Manning nor Tom Brady are perfect (although Tom's face still is at 43--creepy).  Both have their flaws and both lost plenty of big games.  

But now imagine this:  If Peyton had played for Bill Belichick.

How many championships would they have won together?

 

 Less than 6.

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34 minutes ago, dmb3684 said:

 

 Less than 6.


Well played 😉

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Posted (edited)

I thought my days of Brady debates were over...but i'm up early and i have some time to kill...and in these tough times, i consider it my duty to inform the public...

 

9 hours ago, joshua18 said:

Peyton always demanded the most money, the most attention and the least responsibility when things went wrong. He always threw teammates under the bus when they lost big games — the 2005 divisional playoffs vs PIT when he did that to his O-line is just one example. Getting Jim Mora fired less than one month after being called out publicly for leading the league in pick-sixes is another.

 

In return his teams got the greatest regular season QB of all  time and a lot of first rd playoff byes.

Brady studied harder, and did far more with less talent. Peyton had a HOF RB the first 8 years of his career (Faulk, Edge) while Brady had none — just one example.

 

 

Yeah, we should give Brady credit for inspiring greatness in untalented losers like Teddy Bruschi, Rodney Harrison, Ty Law, Richard Seymour, Mike Vrabel and McGinest...you know, the guys who led the league's worst defense in 2001, 2003, and 2004. Not like any of those guys went to the hall of fame recently...

 

Seriously, i don't think anyone debates Brady's greatness. He's one of the greatest QBs ever. But this whole 'brady won with less talented scrubs' is complete nonsense. He was a game-manager with a legendary defense during the early stages of his career, and counted on the greatest ever WR and TE (along with decent defenses) for the remainder of his career. Those are the facts, and the rest is completely irrelevant.

 

It's not difficult to argue that Brady consistently had the best supporting cast of all the 'great' QBs, without being the greatest QB himself. In this context, his 6 rings make sense. Super bowl wins are often a combination of good offense, defense and coaching. His lack of individual accomplishments - NFL MVPs and statistical records - also make sense.

 

Side note: It's funny how younger Patriots fans (and casual bandwagoners) practically ignore all the other Patriots legends to justify Brady's phony 'GOAT' status. Now who's gonna teach these kids that Ty Law was the reason they beat Peyton Manning in the big game, and not Brady...

 

 

6 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Neither Peyton Manning nor Tom Brady are perfect (although Tom's face still is at 43--creepy).  Both have their flaws and both lost plenty of big games.  

But now imagine this:  If Peyton had played for Bill Belichick.

How many championships would they have won together?

 

If we're going the hypothetical route, these questions are better

 

If Brady faced the Patriots defense in those big games, how many Super bowls would he have won?

 

If Peyton Manning had the top ranked Patriots defense - instead of the 19th and 20th ranked defense in 2003 and 2004 - would he have won the Superbowl? The way he did in 2015 with Denver, for example.

 

Tom Brady played with a top 10 defense in 16 of his seasons. Peyton Manning played with a top 10 defense in 7 of his seasons. Would Peyton have won more rings overall if he had Brady's defenses?

 

Shockingly, Aaron Rodgers has played with a top 10 defense in just 3 of his seasons (in one of them, he won the Superbowl). Would he have more rings overall if he had Brady's defenses?

 

Re: the 'did more with less talent' argument -- If Peyton got a college basketball player like Julius Thomas catching 12 TDs in back to back seasons, how many would he have thrown to somebody like Gronkowski?

 

We will never know...

Edited by predator_05
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You know what won't be boring?  Watching Brady run for his life behind Tampa's putrid O-line.  And watching Brady scream at Arians on the sidelines as all these long-developing plays get Brady repeatedly hit, hurried, flushed from the pocket, and sacked.

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

You know what won't be boring?  Watching Brady run for his life behind Tampa's putrid O-line.  And watching Brady scream at Arians on the sidelines as all these long-developing plays get Brady repeatedly hit, hurried, flushed from the pocket, and sacked.


It’s certainly possible, it’s also possible that the scheme gets adapted. Byron Leftwich is calling plays, and he’s played in West Coast systems before. I know it’s Arians system and he likes to go deep but you don’t bring in the GOAT when you’re trying to win in a small window, which Tampa clearly is trying to, and then stubbornly not adapt somewhat to what Tom likes. Maybe he didn’t adapt to Ben or rookie Andrew Luck or Palmer, but they’re not Brady.

 

Now having said that, considering you’re clearly a Brady hater, I’m not sure a rational conversation can be had here. No matter what happens you’ll find a way to discredit Brady. If he does bad, it’ll be because you said he couldn’t fit the system/bad oline etc, and if he succeeds it’ll be because he had Evans/Godwin/Howard/Brate so of course he was gonna succeed.

Im sorry Tom hurt you for 20 years, and now you’re obsessed with him, but maybe he’s just not that into you? 😁

 

Edited by Shake
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Tom Brady is a good quarterback and there can be no debate that the 2001-2019 Patriots are the most successful team in league history.

But I think we are going to see this year, starkly, just how much of Brady's individual success was down to the team around him.  And, most importantly, to the coach who created the environment that allowed those teams to overachieve for so long.

And, of course, there was the rampant cheating.  Arians is a waterboy compared to Belichick.  If Brady tears up the league in 2020, I will be very impressed.  And EXTREMELY surprised.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Tom Brady is a good quarterback and there can be no debate that the 2001-2019 Patriots are the most successful team in league history.

But I think we are going to see this year, starkly, just how much of Brady's individual success was down to the team around him.  And, most importantly, to the coach who created the environment that allowed those teams to overachieve for so long.

And, of course, there was the rampant cheating.  Arians is a waterboy compared to Belichick.  If Brady tears up the league in 2020, I will be very impressed.  And EXTREMELY surprised.

 


 

The facts presented by Greenberg are pretty interesting in my opinion, especially for people who like to marginalize Tom Brady in the success of the Patriots.

 

Edited by Shake
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If it is from ESPN, it is pretty much garbage.  A pity, too.  That network was half-way decent before Disney bought them out.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

If it is from ESPN, it is pretty much garbage.  A pity, too.  That network was half-way decent before Disney bought them out.

Regardless of where it’s from....it’s factual information. 

People surely don’t mind quoting ESPN when talking about spygate or deflategate.

😂 🤔

Edited by Shake
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I think a lot of the stats quoted in that video are indicative of our modern era of runaway offense.

Certainly the combination of Belichick and Brady was a potent one.  Surely neither would have had as much success without the other.

But is Brady the hands down greatest of all time?  I disagree.  It's Montana for me.  And, this may not surprise you, but I hated Montana while he was playing, too.  And Michael Jordan.

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16 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

I think a lot of the stats quoted in that video are indicative of our modern era of runaway offense.

Certainly the combination of Belichick and Brady was a potent one.  Surely neither would have had as much success without the other.

But is Brady the hands down greatest of all time?  I disagree.  It's Montana for me.  And, this may not surprise you, but I hated Montana while he was playing, too.  And Michael Jordan.


1- Peyton 

2- Montana

3- Brady 

4- Elway

5- Marino

 

For two reasons-  1...i don’t care much for “rings” when determining the GOAT QB.   Rings-  in football more than any other sport is a team award.   2...Only one qb amongst the top 3 redefined what a qb could be without a GOAT coach running the show for most of his career.  

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8 minutes ago, Impreza178 said:


1- Peyton 

2- Montana

3- Brady 

4- Elway

5- Marino

 

For two reasons-  1...i don’t care much for “rings” when determining the GOAT QB.   Rings-  in football more than any other sport is a team award.   2...Only one qb amongst the top 3 redefined what a qb could be without a GOAT coach running the show for most of his career.  

Peyton Manning was one helluva great QB.  His Superbowl win in 2015, when he could barely grip the ball let alone throw it, was something like a miracle.  Big, big football brain.

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