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Tom Brady 2020 Outlook

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6 minutes ago, Impreza178 said:

i don’t care much for “rings” when determining the GOAT QB.


Media, HoF voters, coaches, and players themselves do though. Manning and Brady's legacies are set in stone and the former isn't even in the same stratosphere achievement wise anymore. All Manning truthers have to cling onto is hypothetical scenarios now. Nobody is going to care about debating this 10 years down the line when Brady has (probably) long retired and the national disdain for the Pats beating everyone goes away. Then reality hits and Manning is on the outside looking in, possibly even further down the list once Rodgers and Mahomes accomplish a bit more.


Reality sucks I guess

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Rodgers?  Oh lol.  Mahomes, I can maybe believe.  But Peyton Manning is always going to be PFM.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, SharkSwimmer said:

I think a lot of the stats quoted in that video are indicative of our modern era of runaway offense.

Certainly the combination of Belichick and Brady was a potent one.  Surely neither would have had as much success without the other.

But is Brady the hands down greatest of all time?  I disagree.  It's Montana for me.  And, this may not surprise you, but I hated Montana while he was playing, too.  And Michael Jordan.

So the stat of a 42-58 win/loss record for Belichick before Brady started for him is modern runaway offense?

Or having 4 losing seasons in 5 years with the Browns who went to the playoffs 5 of 6 years before he got there?

Or going 5-13 with Bledsoe, a former number 1 overall pick and SB runner up QB?

People talk about Matt Cassell and NE going 11-5 in 2008 while missing the playoffs, but that was 5 games worse than the year before when they went 16-0, with you guessed it Brady as the QB. 

I find all of that pretty interesting.   Not discrediting Belichick necessarily as they both wouldn’t have been as successful without the other but there’s far too much of the sentiment that Belichick gets most of the credit when he’s never been to a SB as a head coach and only has 1 playoff appearance without Tom Brady as his starter.

Again it is what it is, but some people seem to continue to find ways to downgrade one of the most accomplished QBs time and time again.
 

“He doesn’t have the arm talent”

”He doesn’t make Peyton Manning type pre snap reads”

”He’s not mobile”

”He had the GOAT head coach”

”He’s Giselle’s husband”

 “He’s been on a cheating organization”

”He played in a weak division”

Yet what I see is a guy who was pick 199 and came in as the 4th string QB his rookie year, who told Robert Kraft that picking him was the best decision the Patriots ever made.

A guy who had the confidence and the work ethic of a first rounder but the chip on the shoulder to prove everyone wrong because he wasn’t. A guy who constantly took less to make the team better around him instead of taking the most salary like he could have. 
 

A guy who is a consistent winner in a sport that doesn’t have consistent winners unless you are the greatest of the great.

Tom is the GOAT to me, because he has clearly been one of the greatest QBs but also he’s the most accomplished. When you combine both that puts you on another level.

With that said I don’t really care who does better without each other Brady or Belichick but I just thought it was interesting to see how things looked before Brady came in to the picture.

Edited by Shake
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The “He’s been on a cheating organization” one on your list seems pretty darn important.  I would rephrase that as “He has cheated and accepted discipline for having cheated without exhausting his right of appeal, and also benefited from having coaches who cheated to put him in the best position to succeed.”  
 

Not sure how any of this relates to Thomas’ 2020 outlook, but it seemed only fair to mention it.

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2 minutes ago, BMcP said:

The “He’s been on a cheating organization” one on your list seems pretty darn important.  I would rephrase that as “He has cheated and accepted discipline for having cheated without exhausting his right of appeal, and also benefited from having coaches who cheated to put him in the best position to succeed.”  
 

Not sure how any of this relates to Thomas’ 2020 outlook, but it seemed only fair to mention it.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, sSektor said:

 

 

He’s not talking about his split from Bridget for Gisele here?

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37 minutes ago, BMcP said:

The “He’s been on a cheating organization” one on your list seems pretty darn important.  I would rephrase that as “He has cheated and accepted discipline for having cheated without exhausting his right of appeal, and also benefited from having coaches who cheated to put him in the best position to succeed.”  
 

Not sure how any of this relates to Thomas’ 2020 outlook, but it seemed only fair to mention it.

It relates because if Tom can carve up a defense he knows the signals for thanks to a cheating coach, can he do the same if he does not have that level of intell handy?

Answer:  No.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, BMcP said:

The “He’s been on a cheating organization” one on your list seems pretty darn important.  I would rephrase that as “He has cheated and accepted discipline for having cheated without exhausting his right of appeal, and also benefited from having coaches who cheated to put him in the best position to succeed.”  
 

Not sure how any of this relates to Thomas’ 2020 outlook, but it seemed only fair to mention it.

 

22 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

It relates because if Tom can carve up a defense he knows the signals for thanks to a cheating coach, can he do the same if he does not have that level of intell handy?

Answer:  No.


Like I told Dashoe earlier in this thread, Tom Brady lives rent free inside your mind. You eat, sleep and breathe Tom Brady, and to be honest by reading your posts about him it’s clear that you can’t be objective.Which means there’s no rational conversation to be had here because you’re gonna believe what you want regardless. But my question is how you can knock Tom for cheating if that’s what you believe but apparently not knock the supposed ringleader Belichick?

 

Also for people who want to talk about cheating, didn’t Peyton Manning have HGH shipped to his house but it was for his wife, right? 🤔 But he’s near the top of your list right? How could that be?

But we’re talking about deflate gate which can be disproved by 7th grade science which also was never proven by the NFL after an expensive and exhaustive investigation. Also they whooped the Colts a** worse with a properly inflated ball in the 2nd half of that game and beat the Legion of Boom in the SB, again with proper inflation. 

With all that said I don’t spend much time on these forums anymore because they’re not really that informative like they used to be but I’ll check back at the end of the season assuming we have one and if Tom has a good year I’ll expect to see some crow eating in here.

Edited by Shake
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3 minutes ago, Shake said:

 


Like I told Dashoe earlier in this thread, Tom Brady lives rent free inside your mind. You eat, sleep and breathe Tom Brady, and to be honest by reading your posts about him it’s clear that you can’t be objective.Which means there’s no rational conversation to be had here because you’re gonna believe what you want regardless. But my question is how you can knock Tom for cheating if that’s what you believe but apparently not knock the supposed ringleader Belichick?

 

Also for people who want to talk about cheating, didn’t Peyton Manning have HGH shipped to his house but it was for his wife, right? 🤔

 

But we’re talking about deflate gate which can be disproved by 7th grade science which also was never proven by the NFL after an expensive and exhaustive investigation. Also they whooped the Colts a** worse with a properly inflated ball in the 2nd half of that game and beat the Legion of Boom in the SB, again with proper inflation. 

With all that said I don’t spend much time on these forums anymore because they’re not really that informative like they used to be but I’ll check back at the end of the season assuming we have one and if Tom has a good year I’ll expect to see some crow eating in here.

Cool.

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My answer is the Belichick has his team very well prepared and they are in supreme physical shape and they also cheat.  Some teams are wise to their ways, and some teams get their sidelines filmed the week before the game.

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2 hours ago, sSektor said:


Media, HoF voters, coaches, and players themselves do though. Manning and Brady's legacies are set in stone and the former isn't even in the same stratosphere achievement wise anymore. All Manning truthers have to cling onto is hypothetical scenarios now. Nobody is going to care about debating this 10 years down the line when Brady has (probably) long retired and the national disdain for the Pats beating everyone goes away. Then reality hits and Manning is on the outside looking in, possibly even further down the list once Rodgers and Mahomes accomplish a bit more.


Reality sucks I guess


Uh huh

NE fans would like nothing more than PFM fading away.  Won’t happen.   Manning and Brady are the defining duo among a generation of HOF caliber qbs.    They’ll be compared until the end of football as we know it.  

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1 hour ago, Impreza178 said:

NE fans would like nothing more than PFM fading away.

 

He already did in 2016. ESPN isn't even desperate enough to bring up this dead debate anymore and we're in the middle of a quarantine with no sports going on. It's essentially a dead horse topic left for the remote reaches of the internet and broadcast radio at this point 

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Chiefs vs Bucs in Superbowl. Who wins?

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The Bucs are only going to be playing the Chiefs in the Superbowl this year in various Madden games in New England area mom's basements.

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2 hours ago, Impreza178 said:


Uh huh

NE fans would like nothing more than PFM fading away.  Won’t happen.   Manning and Brady are the defining duo among a generation of HOF caliber qbs.    They’ll be compared until the end of football as we know it.  


Like Joe Montana and Dan Marino — 2 all-time greats with the one having the most rings being clearly superior.

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7 hours ago, joshua18 said:


Like Joe Montana and Dan Marino — 2 all-time greats with the one having the most rings being clearly superior.


Marino and Elway would be the classic comp.  same draft class, huge numbers...one has titles and one doesn’t. Is that because Elway is clearly superior?   

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16 hours ago, sSektor said:


Media, HoF voters, coaches, and players themselves do though. Manning and Brady's legacies are set in stone and the former isn't even in the same stratosphere achievement wise anymore. All Manning truthers have to cling onto is hypothetical scenarios now. Nobody is going to care about debating this 10 years down the line when Brady has (probably) long retired and the national disdain for the Pats beating everyone goes away. Then reality hits and Manning is on the outside looking in, possibly even further down the list once Rodgers and Mahomes accomplish a bit more.


Reality sucks I guess

 

Oh really?

 

Peyton Manning is very much, in the same stratosphere as Brady. Peyton Manning is comfortably one of the greatest of all time, and arguably better than Brady.

And its not difficult to argue why:

 

NFL MVPs: Peyton 5, Brady 3.

All Pro: Peyton 7, Brady 3.

They even have the same number of pro-bowls - 14.

All of that - with Peyton playing fewer seasons, btw. No hypotheticals here.

 

Since All Pro is picked by the media - it would appear that the media - is very much of the belief that Peyton had a better career than Brady. I mean, 7 versus 3...is a big difference, right?

 

 

Peyton also holds the record for most ever yards and TDs in a single season - records he set with both the Colts and the Broncos. If Mahomes, or any other QB, wants to be recognized as the most prolific QB ever - he has to beat Peyton Manning's records, and not Tom Brady's. No hypotheticals here either: 5477/55.

 

BTW, Mahomes already beat Brady's single season record for yards, AND equalled his record for TDs (50). So he's already got Tom Terrific looking up at him...f***, that was easy!!

 

Finally, how about this for REALITY:

Tom Brady will end his career with fewer individual accolades than Peyton Manning. Fact. Or as you would say, Set in STONE. 😀

There's also a very realistic chance that Mahomes and Rodgers finish their careers with MORE than a puny 3 NFL MVPs and 3 All Pro Nominations. Rodgers already has 2. Whoops.

 

So who's the one falling down the list here? Tom Brady, and his cult.

 

The 'nationwide disdain' you refer to doesn't actually exist, btw.

What we see is a 'nationwide deification' of a man that is being pushed by the NFL and its casual fan-base as the 'face' of the sport. 10 years down the line, when a different 'face' holds all the team and individual records, more people will see Brady for what he truly was: a great, but overrated QB.

 

15 hours ago, Shake said:

I find all of that pretty interesting.   Not discrediting Belichick necessarily as they both wouldn’t have been as successful without the other but there’s far too much of the sentiment that Belichick gets most of the credit when he’s never been to a SB as a head coach and only has 1 playoff appearance without Tom Brady as his starter.

 

Again it is what it is, but some people seem to continue to find ways to downgrade one of the most accomplished QBs time and time again.
 

With that said I don’t really care who does better without each other Brady or Belichick but I just thought it was interesting to see how things looked before Brady came in to the picture.
 

 

Except...Belichick won 2 superbowls with the Giants as an assistant coach.

here's a fact: Bill Belichick would have at least 2 super bowl rings even if he had never met Tom Brady. I'd say that's a pretty solid coaching record.

 

It seems to me that you're the one 'downgrading' the Patriots legendary defense and coach for the sake of bigging up Brady's phony  GOAT status.

If you're a Patriots fan, that is shameful. You should celebrate the team, instead of a single player. Peace.

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👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

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Sustained applause.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, predator_05 said:

 

Oh really?

 

Peyton Manning is very much, in the same stratosphere as Brady. Peyton Manning is comfortably one of the greatest of all time, and arguably better than Brady.

And its not difficult to argue why:

 

NFL MVPs: Peyton 5, Brady 3.

All Pro: Peyton 7, Brady 3.

They even have the same number of pro-bowls - 14.

All of that - with Peyton playing fewer seasons, btw. No hypotheticals here.

 

Since All Pro is picked by the media - it would appear that the media - is very much of the belief that Peyton had a better career than Brady. I mean, 7 versus 3...is a big difference, right?

 

 

Peyton also holds the record for most ever yards and TDs in a single season - records he set with both the Colts and the Broncos. If Mahomes, or any other QB, wants to be recognized as the most prolific QB ever - he has to beat Peyton Manning's records, and not Tom Brady's. No hypotheticals here either: 5477/55.

 

BTW, Mahomes already beat Brady's single season record for yards, AND equalled his record for TDs (50). So he's already got Tom Terrific looking up at him...f***, that was easy!!

 

Finally, how about this for REALITY:

Tom Brady will end his career with fewer individual accolades than Peyton Manning. Fact. Or as you would say, Set in STONE. 😀

There's also a very realistic chance that Mahomes and Rodgers finish their careers with MORE than a puny 3 NFL MVPs and 3 All Pro Nominations. Rodgers already has 2. Whoops.

 

So who's the one falling down the list here? Tom Brady, and his cult.

 

The 'nationwide disdain' you refer to doesn't actually exist, btw.

What we see is a 'nationwide deification' of a man that is being pushed by the NFL and its casual fan-base as the 'face' of the sport. 10 years down the line, when a different 'face' holds all the team and individual records, more people will see Brady for what he truly was: a great, but overrated QB.

 

 

Except...Belichick won 2 superbowls with the Giants as an assistant coach.

here's a fact: Bill Belichick would have at least 2 super bowl rings even if he had never met Tom Brady. I'd say that's a pretty solid coaching record.

 

It seems to me that you're the one 'downgrading' the Patriots legendary defense and coach for the sake of bigging up Brady's phony  GOAT status.

If you're a Patriots fan, that is shameful. You should celebrate the team, instead of a single player. Peace.


Your lack of reading comprehension is mind boggling. You bolded the section where I said Belichick has never been to a SB as a head coach without Tom, facts by the way, and then you proceed to talk about two SB wins as an assistant coach with the Giants? Wow. 
 

I’m not downgrading anything necessarily as I said earlier, I just find it interesting that Belichick never had success as a head coach without Tom. 1 playoff appearance in 5 seasons with the Browns who had been to the playoffs 5 of 6 seasons before he got there, 5-11 with the Patriots in 2000 while having Bledsoe at QB, and missed the playoffs in 2008 when Tom was hurt, granted they were 11-5 but that’s 5 games worse than the 16-0 they went in 2007 with Brady.

In 7 seasons as a head coach without Tom Brady as his starter he went to the playoffs 1 time and only had 2 winning seasons.

 

These are facts, this is an unbiased look at the history of Belichick as a head coach without Brady, we have no evidence of Brady without Belichick at this moment. Maybe Brady will fall on his face and be terrible the next 2 years, maybe Belichick wins 2 more SBs the next 2 seasons but for now this is what we have to go on.  It’s unfortunate that Brady haters, which you clearly are, and there are quite a few in this thread can not be unbiased in your assessment of one of the greatest QBs to ever play.
 

BTW, not a Patriots fan. No need to be a fan of that team to enjoy watching one the greatest to ever play the game.
 

 

Edited by Shake
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42 minutes ago, BMcP said:

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

 

5 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Sustained applause.


What a shocking turn of events that Brady haters would agree with other Brady haters.

 

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

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1 minute ago, Shake said:

 


What a shocking turn of events that Brady haters would agree with other Brady haters.

 

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Could you please stop with the “hater” talk?  I don’t “hate” anyone, including Tom Brady.  I’m not a fan of him at all, but I don’t hate him.  I wish we could just focus on discussing football.

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1 minute ago, BMcP said:

Could you please stop with the “hater” talk?  I don’t “hate” anyone, including Tom Brady.  I’m not a fan of him at all, but I don’t hate him.  I wish we could just focus on discussing football.


It’s a figure of speech, not literal. Of course you should know that, but I digress.
 

Yep. Back to football. Everyone feel free to dislike Brady as you wish, career Brady or 2020 season Brady.

3...2...1.....GO!

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Why are we even discussing the regular season between Peyton and Brady . I mean yeah it’s good for argument sake , but it’s all about SB rings and playoff wins . I’m not a Brady/Pats fan , but I do acknowledge greatness . And Brady is definitely one of the GOAT’s . But folks always have & always will... hate on the Patriots dynasty . For a plethora of reasons I won’t divulge into further . I do rank him above Peyton though , but that doesn’t mean I don’t view Manning as a GOAT neither , which he most definitely is . And before Rodgers got hurt a few years back , I honestly thought he was the greatest and most talented QB . I considered him the GOAT at the time . Not from his accomplishments ofcourse , but he was literally a God at that point, all you had to do was tune into a Packer game and see with your own eyes the special things he was doing. Now I view Mahomes in that same light. If he continues on his current trajectory and (knock on wood) stays healthy for the majority of his career. All of us will be forgetting the Bradys & Mannings of this world. 

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3 hours ago, predator_05 said:

REALITY:

 

6 vs 2

 

This is all anybody is going to care about decades down the line. Maybe you can start a change.org petition to change the overwhelming public perception or something.

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