1972Miamidolphins

Tom Brady 2020 Outlook

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Wow lol.  Carolina lost to Denver in the SB my man.

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3 hours ago, SyNdicateZ said:

Didnt the pats beat cam in the SB? Dont thinks hes undeafted.

Pats beat Jake Delhomme in the SB

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2 hours ago, DezedandConfused said:

Pats beat Jake Delhomme in the SB

Nearly 10 years before Cam Newton entered the NFL...

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5 hours ago, SyNdicateZ said:

Didnt the pats beat cam in the SB? Dont thinks hes undeafted.

NO 

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They did not.

 

Cam didn't make it to the Super Bowl for the Pats to beat him

Only got past the divisional round once

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5 hours ago, mocha4313 said:

They did not.

 

Cam didn't make it to the Super Bowl for the Pats to beat him

Only got past the divisional round once

Cam played in a Super Bowl, they lost to Denver...Or am I reading your post wrong?

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Just now, hockeyfan77 said:

Cam played in a Super Bowl, they lost to Denver...Or am I reading your post wrong?

I am saying Cam only made the Super Bowl (or past the divisional round) once. That happened to be one of the few years the Patriots were not there.

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3 minutes ago, mocha4313 said:

I am saying Cam only made the Super Bowl (or past the divisional round) once. That happened to be one of the few years the Patriots were not there.

Ah, I see, sorry was confused for a 2nd there

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Most QBs never make it to the Superbowl.  Even very good ones.  Cam has made it to one, so far.  If he is healthy, I am liking his chances to get back to that game another time or two 

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Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Most QBs never make it to the Superbowl.  Even very good ones.  Cam has made it to one, so far.  If he is healthy, I am liking his chances to get back to that game another time or two 

You know has? Many times?

The guy he's replacing--you know the guy who with this Patriots roster could muster a wild card round loss to the Titans and a narrow division win

I do like it though personally. So much less fun in stomping a Jarrett Stidham led team even if it is the Patriots (want them to have some hope like the Chiefs did in 2018) and personally I don't see them as any more of a threat than the Broncos--honestly even less tbh

We will see though. I have been seeing a lot of analysts say the Patriots will be better than the Bucs and I think it is downright insane: the Bucs are a ton more talented and even saying that is disrespectful to Brady

Edited by mocha4313
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I'd be lying if I said Brady's pseudoscience male version of Gwyneth Paltrow mindset doesn't concern me in the current public health climate. He might need to stock up on some of Russel Wilson's concussion curing miracle drink.

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1 hour ago, mocha4313 said:

 

We will see though. I have been seeing a lot of analysts say the Patriots will be better than the Bucs and I think it is downright insane: the Bucs are a ton more talented and even saying that is disrespectful to Brady

As much as In want you to be wrong, I don't think you are

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The Bucs have a bad O-line and were losing almost all the time in 2019, so they had to throw all the time.  Evans and Godwin put up stats in that situation.  And the Bucs D was tough to run against, but pretty horrible against the pass.  Bill Parcells often said that a team is as good as its record, and I think he was correct.  Although they had some flashy fantasy performances in 2019, it is ridiculous to say that the Bucs are more talented than the Patriots. 

New England's O-line, when fully healthy, is one of the best.  The New England defense is very solid, especially in the secondary.  The skill position players aren't very flashy but they mostly got the job done last year, and some help arrived in the draft.

And that is not even considering coaching.  Arians is well regarded in the fantasy community because his offenses pile up yards and points, but he has never really won anything as a head coach.

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18 hours ago, DezedandConfused said:

Pats beat Jake Delhomme in the SB

lol oh ok. im off. 

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6 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

The Bucs have a bad O-line and were losing almost all the time in 2019, so they had to throw all the time.  Evans and Godwin put up stats in that situation.  And the Bucs D was tough to run against, but pretty horrible against the pass.  Bill Parcells often said that a team is as good as its record, and I think he was correct.  Although they had some flashy fantasy performances in 2019, it is ridiculous to say that the Bucs are more talented than the Patriots. 

New England's O-line, when fully healthy, is one of the best.  The New England defense is very solid, especially in the secondary.  The skill position players aren't very flashy but they mostly got the job done last year, and some help arrived in the draft.

And that is not even considering coaching.  Arians is well regarded in the fantasy community because his offenses pile up yards and points, but he has never really won anything as a head coach.

They did? Lol if they got the job done Brady would still be there. Their skill position is Garbage with a capital G--absolutely horrendous. And no help arrived unless you consider the players at a position infamous for lack of production as a rookie

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

The Bucs have a bad O-line and were losing almost all the time in 2019, so they had to throw all the time.  Evans and Godwin put up stats in that situation.  And the Bucs D was tough to run against, but pretty horrible against the pass.  Bill Parcells often said that a team is as good as its record, and I think he was correct.  Although they had some flashy fantasy performances in 2019, it is ridiculous to say that the Bucs are more talented than the Patriots. 

New England's O-line, when fully healthy, is one of the best.  The New England defense is very solid, especially in the secondary.  The skill position players aren't very flashy but they mostly got the job done last year, and some help arrived in the draft.

And that is not even considering coaching.  Arians is well regarded in the fantasy community because his offenses pile up yards and points, but he has never really won anything as a head coach.

QB: Bucs

RB: both are bad but Bucs if I had to pick--won't argue either way

Receiving Corps: Bucs by infinity

OL: Pats

DL: Bucs

LB: Bucs

Secondary: Pats by a good amount

 

Arians had the Cardinals one game from a Super Bowl, won a chip in Pittsburgh and had the best record in the NFL in 2014 with AZ until Palmer died

Winningest HC in Cardinals history

 

And New England's defense got exposed so hard when they faced not terrible offenses

Secondary==good

LBs=as*

DL=as*

 

Ask Derrick Henry, the Ravens, the Texans who thrashed them, or the historically awful Dolphins OL that manhandled the soft Pats front 7

 

Bucs are more talented by a good amount and if their name wasn't the Patriots no one would talk about this team as a contender

 

That doesn't guarantee they will do better of course. Patriots still have the GOAT coach but on paper the teams are not in the same realm

Edited by mocha4313
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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

The Bucs have a bad O-line and were losing almost all the time in 2019, so they had to throw all the time.  Evans and Godwin put up stats in that situation.  And the Bucs D was tough to run against, but pretty horrible against the pass.  Bill Parcells often said that a team is as good as its record, and I think he was correct.  Although they had some flashy fantasy performances in 2019, it is ridiculous to say that the Bucs are more talented than the Patriots. 

New England's O-line, when fully healthy, is one of the best.  The New England defense is very solid, especially in the secondary.  The skill position players aren't very flashy but they mostly got the job done last year, and some help arrived in the draft.

And that is not even considering coaching.  Arians is well regarded in the fantasy community because his offenses pile up yards and points, but he has never really won anything as a head coach.

Also I am not sure what you are implying on Evans and Godwin but I believe it is something along the lines of them being stat padders and not actually as/more talented as N’Keal Harry and the corpse of Edelman? 😂 ok

And I am pretty sure the Bucs record may have been dragged down by the arm punt machine they spotting the other team 6 points a game and many short fields? the one they replaced with the GOAT? Idk just a hunch

And the Bucs pass D improved tremendously in the second half of the season with a really good defensive coordinator in Bowles at the helm

The Bucs are more talented than the Pats because they are simply better everywhere but two spots

Edited by mocha4313
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6 hours ago, mocha4313 said:

That doesn't guarantee they will do better of course. Patriots still have the GOAT coach but on paper the teams are not in the same realm

Agreed.  Bucs are a 7-9 team who just replaced a young, athletic, but bad-decision-prone 5,000 passer with a 43-year-old who was pretty clearly cooked in 2019.

Meanwhile, the reigning AFC East Champs just got healthy, and younger and more athletic at the QB position.  Mercy!

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Agreed.  Bucs are a 7-9 team who just replaced a young, athletic, but bad-decision-prone 5,000 passer with a 43-year-old who was pretty clearly cooked in 2019.

Meanwhile, the reigning AFC East Champs just got healthy, and younger and more athletic at the QB position.  Mercy!

And worse. Don't forget worse.

And Brady looked cooked because the Patriots are horrendously awful at offense with a broken down Edelman, guy who can't separate from LBs, and still no productive TEs

What year do you want to go by in Brady vs Cam?

2019: Brady

2018: Brady

2017: Brady

2016: Brady

2015: Cam

2014: Brady

2013: Brady

2012: Brady

2011: Brady

So Brady has been better every year, AND looked better last we saw with a worse supporting cast

 

No need for mercy. We will smack these pretenders if they get to us because we are better at everything except in the secondary but ultimately the Bills beat us to it (and convincingly) now that the two biggest reasons to fear the Patriots for the whole league have been cut in half and replaced with a guy who looked like Trubisky last year

 

You may have a point if Cam had looked better than Brady in 2019 but he didn't. At all. Or in any year since joining with the exception of 2015

 

 

I never thought I would be defending Brady--much less spending so many posts doing so. Always hated him but these takes are simply ridiculous

 

Some bum with one season of outperforming Brady 5 years ago who looked like a bottom 5 QB last we saw is now better than him

SMH

This is the equivalent of calling OBJ better than Julio

 

Except OBJ is a far, far better WR than Cam is a QB

Edited by mocha4313
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1 hour ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Agreed.  Bucs are a 7-9 team who just replaced a young, athletic, but bad-decision-prone 5,000 passer with a 43-year-old who was pretty clearly cooked in 2019.

Meanwhile, the reigning AFC East Champs just got healthy, and younger and more athletic at the QB position.  Mercy!

Also notice how you didn't defend your claim of washed up Edelman, bust WR, 3rd round rookie TEs and Sony "Trent Richardson" Michel as a "solid" skill position group and better than Godwin and Evans

Or the terribleness of the Patriots front 7

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Did you watch Brady play in 2019?  New England was winning in spite of, not because of, their quarterback play.  Meanwhile, Cam is still pretty young for a QB.  I suspect Cam has a lot of good football left in him.  Brady, not so much.  I am thinking about none.

Edelman is fine.  A healthy Sanu plus an improved Harry and maybe some decent play from the rookie TEs and the passing game for New England will be at least decent, and better than it was in 2019.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Did you watch Brady play in 2019?  New England was winning in spite of, not because of, their quarterback play.  Meanwhile, Cam is still pretty young for a QB.  I suspect Cam has a lot of good football left in him.  Brady, not so much.  I am thinking about none.

Edelman is fine.  A healthy Sanu plus an improved Harry and maybe some decent play from the rookie TEs and the passing game for New England will be at least decent, and better than it was in 2019.

Watched every snap he played and the Pats were not winning in spite of him...The O-Line and TE couldn't block, TE couldn't catch, WR couldn't get separation and RB's could run because the O-Line was getting blown-up....If you cant see that watching the games then it's blind hate for the man 

Edited by hockeyfan77
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1 minute ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Did you watch Brady play in 2019?  New England was winning in spite of, not because of, their quarterback play.  Meanwhile, Cam is still pretty young for a QB.  I suspect Cam has a lot of good football left in him.  Brady, not so much.  I am thinking about none.

Edelman is fine.  A healthy Sanu plus an improved Harry and maybe some decent play from the rookie TEs and the passing game for New England will be at least decent, and better than it was in 2019.

Therein lies our disagreement. I refuse to count Brady out when he has a bunch of bums to throw to and dudes like Marshall Newhouse blocking for him. I made that mistake after 2014's Monday night game in Arrowhead when we blew them out 41-14

NE was winning because their defense could feast on awful offenses and keep pressure off their offense. When their defense played a decent team and as expected got bowled over, their offense rarely made up for it.

You are putting that on Brady. Edelman to me is washed, injury prone and had a top 10 drop rate in the league last season. Sanu is a decent WR3, but has never put been anything special despite playing opposite superstars like Julio and AJG his whole career, and regressed hard last season. I think Harry is a bust and rookie TEs are a zero unless you believe they are Gronk level talents (Gronk and Evan Engram are the only TEs I can remember recently with major year 1 contributions and both were way better prospects than Keene and Asiasi)

Harry to me is just a bust. James White is the only good, reliable skill position player to me and he certainly isn't a star

And I guess I see Cam's career being shorter than most QBs with how he has played. Honestly though even a washed Brady (and I don't think he is washed) is a better passer than Cam. Even in Cam's MVP year Brady was a better passer.

I wouldn't be shocked if you put Brett Favre or Kurt Warner in a uniform right now and they were better passers than Cam

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And I expect improvement from New England in many of those areas in 2020.  The O-line will be healthy, Sanu should bounce back, Harry should keep improving, and the rookie TEs look promising imo.

Now add in a QB who is a threat to run on every play instead of an aging statue in the pocket and it might be quite a nice formula.

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Warner and Favre are probably still quite good at passing, but neither could take an NFL hit and keep going. 

Cam delivers the blows.  The man is an athletic marvel when healthy.

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