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Lamar Jackson 2020 Outlook


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36 minutes ago, BGDDYKWL said:

I wouldn't sell. He missed a rushing TD by inches and had a 30-yard TD called back for a hold that I don't believe really affected his run. All things considered that's a solid game against that defense. 

That said, he's one of the worst passers in the league, and he has very limited weapons. 

You're not gonna get value for him in a deal. I'd ride it out and hope we get an uptick. My guess is he hovers around QB5 ROS. 

 

I feel exactly the same way. I watched the game and he looked explosive running the ball, still have concerns with the passing game but that's also the best defense they play all year.

Edited by vercrazy
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39 minutes ago, lolcopter said:

You're tripping, he'll be lucky to finish in the top half

Trust me, I fully understand the frustration, particularly with the draft capital people used to get him, but outside of the top 15 is ridiculous. I'd be very surprised if he finished outside the top 10. 

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31 minutes ago, Deke said:

Ravens need to trade for Jamison Crowder asap.

 

Ravens arent even using Duvernay properly, so I doubt Crowder would be a great fit. If I were the Ravens I would be trading a 1st to Atlanta for Julio.

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2 minutes ago, Evincar said:

 

Ravens arent even using Duvernay properly, so I doubt Crowder would be a great fit. If I were the Ravens I would be trading a 1st to Atlanta for Julio.

What's the point of adding more "souljas" if you're never gonna use them (Never!!)?

 

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9 hours ago, vercrazy said:

 

Well, 4 turnovers is a pretty bad performance, no other way to slice it. I'm still somewhat optimistic going forward but the lack of good decision-making dampens my outlook.

 

That said, on the bright-side Wentz was even more awful, so I guess I was technically correct?



oWXI4Zc.jpg

I have to call you out for using this pic.  Hermes didn't say that line!

 

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7 hours ago, Evincar said:

 

Ravens arent even using Duvernay properly, so I doubt Crowder would be a great fit. If I were the Ravens I would be trading a 1st to Atlanta for Julio.

I love julio, but unfortunately this isn't street fighter where he can go "yoga arms" and catch one of lamars errand passes.
julio.jpg

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11 minutes ago, TroutFister said:

I love julio, but unfortunately this isn't street fighter where he can go "yoga arms" and catch one of lamars errand passes.
julio.jpg

 

do they go pick up groceries or something?

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41 minutes ago, Al.Davis said:

Can't help but notice that Lamar has a grand total of THREE more fantasy points year to date than Gardner Minshew, who is being benched for a 6th round rookie.  Yeah!

 

6 good games for Minshew compared to 3 for Lamar.

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QBs like Jackson crack me up. They are able to have one flukey season (Cam, Vick, etc) but it's not a sustainable style of play. It was OBVIOUS last season that Lamar Jackson is inaccurate and just not a good passing QB. All it takes is teams to adjust and now his "2nd time through the lineup" he is struggling because he is not a great passer.

It's just funny because when I (or anyone else) say these things last season. during Jackson's flukey season, or when Tebow was entering the NFL, or when Cam had his fluke season, people laugh at you like you're absolutely crazy. But why don't people learn that this style of QB play is not sustainable?

 

Honestly, I scratched my head when Baltimore let Hurst go bc I think Jackson needs 2 legit pass catching TEs.

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Let's get this thread back to Lamar Jackson instead of people taking offense to opinions.

He's pretty much what I predicted he would be tbh so I can't say I'm surprised by his performance this year.

 

They should have kept Hurst.

Edited by ThreadKiller
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@UVA_Drew, let's just agree to disagree and move on.

 

I think players like Lamar, Cam, etc are not good real life QBs with sustainable play because they are not very good in the passing game. You have stated that you disagree with this and think they are good real life QBs/passing QBs with sustainable play.

Let's move on because I don't care to go back and forth with someone who is going to take it so personal.

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So thoughts going forward for dynasty/keeper leagues? He's having a "rough" season but I'm looking to possibly buy low in a league where I don't already own him.  He has weapons and they should have a good run game so I would think things start to turn around.  I own Brown and Andrews and I sure hope this ship gets turned around quickly. The receivers are open, just just missing them.

 

This last match-up was probably his toughest and he does have Indy next. But look at the fantasy playoff schedule, it is all green.  When looking at the final stretch I think I have to start buying low here. Maybe find a good deal...

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4 minutes ago, Big Nate said:

So thoughts going forward for dynasty/keeper leagues? He's having a "rough" season but I'm looking to possibly buy low in a league where I don't already own him.  He has weapons and they should have a good run game so I would think things start to turn around.  I own Brown and Andrews and I sure hope this ship gets turned around quickly. The receivers are open, just just missing them.

I wouldn't want any part of him in dynasty/keeper. As mentioned, literally every single one of these types of QBs have had a short shelf life, and the second their legs/body started breaking down it was all over. Hell I'd barely even want him this year when he's still essentially 100%. He'll continue to decline til he's eventually no longer serviceable, and it'll be a fairly rapid process. 

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7 minutes ago, Chippa said:

That’s an absurdly low completion percentage for the 2010’s.

His legs are what made him good

I believe you can be a decent qb if you have the legs, and your passing ability is lacking. Not very traditional, but it can be affective for a limited time

problem is that once the legs go, it’s over. 

 

Agreed.

 

I just don't think it's a sustainable style of offense in real life. For example, Cam still got like 17-18 points last week against Buffalo and he was absolutely HORRENDOUS in that game. I'm able to separate and say "hey Cam got some points due to settings, but he's still a terrible QB".

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1 minute ago, Chippa said:

Yep. Funny enough, cam will prob go down in history as the qb who had the longest sustained success as a running qb. But that’s really because he’s built like a superhero. 
 

 

That I'd probable agree with. He's been banged up a bit over the past few years but in general he's lasted the longest as a QB with that style.

 

Even though in EVERY game I've ever seen him play, he throws several hospital balls, has terrible mechanics, extremely inaccurate and clearly has limited football IQ. Though most of these traits are common with all running QBs. It's why we call them "running QB's. If they were good passers, we'd actually call them just "QBs".....

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1 hour ago, ThreadKiller said:

QBs like Jackson crack me up. They are able to have one flukey season (Cam, Vick, etc) but it's not a sustainable style of play. It was OBVIOUS last season that Lamar Jackson is inaccurate and just not a good passing QB. All it takes is teams to adjust and now his "2nd time through the lineup" he is struggling because he is not a great passer.

It's just funny because when I (or anyone else) say these things last season. during Jackson's flukey season, or when Tebow was entering the NFL, or when Cam had his fluke season, people laugh at you like you're absolutely crazy. But why don't people learn that this style of QB play is not sustainable?

 

Honestly, I scratched my head when Baltimore let Hurst go bc I think Jackson needs 2 legit pass catching TEs.

You just called 17 almost historic level MVP level games (LJ), a super bowl run and 5 very-good-to-great seasons (Cam) and...everything Mike Vick did with both the Falcons AND the Packers a fluke. You then went on to compare them to...Tim Tebow. That's simply amazing in how incorrect it is. How long does a player have to be good and productive for you to NOT call them a fluke? Just curious? 

I don't now what is going on with LJ. He's certainly backslid for whatever reason (coaching, league wide defensive adjustments, roster talent, OLine quality / injuries, lack of offseason personal development, a little bit of each). However--that opinion above is just wrong and bad.

Also LJ's football IQ is not "clearly limited". That's a completely subjective statement and there's nothing "clearly" about it. I don't know what's going to happen with his career. I think there are a lot of valid things to be discussed about the struggles of this offense and this qb right now. "I'm gonna pat myself on the back because Lamar Jackson, Cam Newton, and Michael Vick were all flukes and were basically Tim Tebow and I knew it all along" is not one of them.

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1 hour ago, yossarian said:

You just called 17 almost historic level MVP level games (LJ), a super bowl run and 5 very-good-to-great seasons (Cam) and...everything Mike Vick did with both the Falcons AND the Packers a fluke. You then went on to compare them to...Tim Tebow. That's simply amazing in how incorrect it is. How long does a player have to be good and productive for you to NOT call them a fluke? Just curious? 

I don't now what is going on with LJ. He's certainly backslid for whatever reason (coaching, league wide defensive adjustments, roster talent, OLine quality / injuries, lack of offseason personal development, a little bit of each). However--that opinion above is just wrong and bad.

Also LJ's football IQ is not "clearly limited". That's a completely subjective statement and there's nothing "clearly" about it. I don't know what's going to happen with his career. I think there are a lot of valid things to be discussed about the struggles of this offense and this qb right now. "I'm gonna pat myself on the back because Lamar Jackson, Cam Newton, and Michael Vick were all flukes and were basically Tim Tebow and I knew it all along" is not one of them.

 

I didn't compare them to Tim Tebow but ok?... I just listed off QBs who when I labeled as bad passers/QBs, that opinion was met with such backlash.

And what are you even talking about? What do you define as fluke? You don't think his 2019 season was a fluke? So you think he's likely to sustain it? Lamar Jackson is not a good passer but on his first time through the lineup, he had lots of success because of his insane athletic ability (besides throwing).

I just don't think Lamar Jackson will be in the elite category of QBs beyond last year. Which is why I think last year was his outlier IMO.

 

To the bolded part? We define "good-to great" differently. I don't think Cam showed any "good-to-great" seasons as a passing/real life QB besides maybe 2015. But that's my opinion. Fantasy QB? Sure (only because rushing counts more than passing). But real life QB/passing QB? No.

I'm not going to argue this all day though. I don't think Jackson is a good passing QB. Get over it. You seem to disagree and think he's a great passing QB, and that's your opinion. GREAT! Unless you're interested in debating it civilly without trying to insult me over it because you're so defensive, I'm not interested so let's just move on.

[...]

Edited by tonycpsu
Removed bickering
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57 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

I didn't compare them to Tim Tebow but ok?... I just listed off QBs who when I labeled as bad passers/QBs, that opinion was met with such backlash.

And what are you even talking about? What do you define as fluke? You don't think his 2019 season was a fluke? So you think he's likely to sustain it? Lamar Jackson is not a good passer but on his first time through the lineup, he had lots of success because of his insane athletic ability (besides throwing).

I just don't think Lamar Jackson will be in the elite category of QBs beyond last year. Which is why I think last year was his outlier IMO.

 

To the bolded part? We define "good-to great" differently. I don't think Cam showed any "good-to-great" seasons as a passing/real life QB besides maybe 2015. But that's my opinion. Fantasy QB? Sure (only because rushing counts more than passing). But real life QB/passing QB? No.

I'm not going to argue this all day though. I don't think Jackson is a good passing QB. Get over it. You seem to disagree and think he's a great passing QB, and that's your opinion. GREAT! Unless you're interested in debating it civilly without trying to insult me over it because you're so defensive, I'm not interested so let's just move on.

 

EDIT: The best part about any of this though?.. That a couple of you take the opinion that Jackson isn't a good real life QB so personally and resort to trying to make it personal by attempting to insult me over it. Grow up.

At this point I'm not even arguing with you about whether or not LJ is a good passing QB. I'm not sure that's something that can be definitively stated at this point. Last season he lead the league in TD passes. This season he's looked tentative and his passes have often been off target. Not sure What's going on there. My issue is with how you define what a good real life QB is.

You seem to not think Cam was a good real life QB while he was playing for the panthers. He was their QB for approximately 8 seasons. They won their division 3 of those and finished 2nd in 2 others. They went to the playoffs in 4 of those seasons. they had 12, 15, and 11 win seasons in there and made a run to the super bowl in one. He was widely regarded as a top tier QB for both fantasy and real life purposes during most of that run.

LJ and the Ravens went 14-2 last season. The season before that, when he took over for the back half of the season they went something like 5-0. Both seasons they made it to the playoffs. If you respond with "anybody can make the playoffs" I'm sure there's a few Browns, WTF, Jets, Lions, etc fans that would love to have a word with you about that. 

Please tell me--how good, for how long, DOES a quarterback have to be before you define them as a "good real life QB" and not a fluke? I'd love to know what your threshold is because from my vantage it seems a bit unrealistic. 

[...]

Edited by tonycpsu
Removed personal stuff
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15 minutes ago, yossarian said:

 

Finally--I'm not sure who you're talking about but I've not at an point insulted you in my replies. If you are referring to my lone response above you are confusing somebody disagreeing with your opinions with somebody insulting you. Clearly that's not how that works. 

 

[...]

Again, I never thought Michael Vick was a good passer. Statistics agree.  I never thought Cam Newton was a good passer. Statistics agree. I never thought Tebow was a good passing QB. Statistics agree. I've never thought Lamar Jackson was a good passer. Time will tell on this one.

IMO, to be a long time successful real life QB, you need to be a good passing QB. I define sustained success differently than you and that's fine. Personally, I don't think that because the Panthers won their division, that automatically means that Cam Newton had a successful season as an elite QB. You said he was universally viewed as a great real life QB? Um, ok? Cool? Tim Tebow was universally viewed as the next big thing while he was in the playoffs with Denver. Based on your logic, since Denver was in the playoffs with Tebow as their QB, that automatically makes him a great real life QB. Nonsense. Context is important and teams can win a division without an elite QB. THAT is "clearly not how it works".

Again, I don't think QBs like this are great real life QBs because at the end of the day, for sustained elite level play, you need to be able to pass. I'm allowed to have that opinion and statistics seem to back it up. You disagree and think they are great passing QBs. Wonderful. I don't care. Let's move on.

Edited by tonycpsu
Enough with the bickering -- last edit / removal before suspension.
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3 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

You disagree and think they are great passing QBs. Wonderful. I don't care. Let's move on.

 yossarian is a notorious fan of Lamar and running qb's. I had this argument with him last season

Edited by Chippa
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