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Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion

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18 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Thanks so much for the article link.  Since this has a high "baseball" content to say the least I'm gonna re-post it in that thread too.  Early on some people were quoting one lone ball player who was a player rep as well saying he had the pulse of how the players felt because he was a rep etc.  Well there are several player reps in this article as well as a good cross section of players quoted who don't think the Arizona Bubbledome scenario is so great and that a lot of players wouldn't want to do it.

I also think it was smart to quote them anonymously because it allowed them the freedom to say how they really felt without ticking off their owners or the front office.

BTW it seemed discussion of players and baseball was more the other thread (coronavirus and baseball) thing to me so I posted your link there.

LOL that was me too.

I'm just sharing the info as it comes along, for or against.  Their opinions are more important than mine on the subject of them playing anyway.

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2 hours ago, tonycpsu said:

 

Sure, every business cycle is different, and occurs in a different context.  There are no apples-to-apples comparisons, but an apples-to-pears comparison has more merit than "well, I've never had a pear before, so I assume it tastes nothing like an apple".  There are similarities and differences, but a lot of the results cited in the article (less job-related stress, more sleep, more time for exercise, etc.) are pretty intuitive, so I think the burden of proof is on those who say the economic hardship will be worse for society overall than more deaths from the disease will.

Personally think this is going to be way different then 2008. Things haven't played out though. So all I can say is we shall see.

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1 hour ago, TribeFoo said:

We all have the same goals here. Get the economy opened up and return to life as semi-normal. Problem is we now have 50 outbreaks instead of one thanks to a derelict federal response and a select group of brainless governors. This key error is going to drag this out WAY longer than necessary. Baseball is a national game and every state is at a different stage in their outbreak. Working around that is practically impossible.

If you think we were ever not going to have 50 outbreaks instead of one, you (and whoever liked this post) are more interested in blame game and politics, and aren’t paying attention to every place around the world AND taking into account the size and scope of our country.

Michigan, by most accounts, shut down early and did most everything right. Right on the heals of Ohio in closing schools (March 13) and shutting down the state. Ohio even has a higher population (7th in country) than Michigan (10th). Yet Michigan is 3rd in cases and deaths, while Ohio is 17th. There’s really no blame to be had. Likely, the disease came into Detroit Metro Airport first. 

Now you guys want to twist yourselves into a pretzel to somehow blame a handful of people, just know that many of us know it’s either intentionally disingenuous or ignorant. You choose.

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34 minutes ago, tonycpsu said:

 

Of course unemployment and social isolation are problematic, and I've never said they are not.  There's no need to read my words uncharitably just to score a cheap dunk.  We can just have a conversation here without this straw man nonsense.

What I am saying is that without an understanding of how problematic they are, we can't compare them to the demonstrable harm caused by the virus.  My effort to look at historical examples was to hopefully get in the ballpark of what we can expect, and I was surprised by the results.  Your response is, essentially, "well, this is different."  It is!  But we're no closer to a means of comparing the economic harm of the restrictions against the harm of the virus than we were when we started, and it's not my job to prove your point for you.  Bring something to the table that supports your position, or accept that there is compelling historical evidence that economic harm can reduce mortality.

I'm a big proponent of gradually opening up restrictions once we're well over the hump.  However, doing so prematurely could mean a second wave that could lead to more people getting sick, and more dying.  We can accept as a given that these restrictions are making life difficult and miserable for many, and we can see in the numbers that COVID itself is doing the same.  Ultimately, this is going to have to come down to a decision on when and how quickly to loosen restrictions, and I'd like that to be evidence-based.

I am sorry, if you're gonna leave the lane open, I'm gonna take it to a the hole.  I can't help myself.  

We can agree to disagree.  I do not accept that the .54% reduction in the mortality rate in past US recessions is relevant to the public health issues we'd have today by locking up for a year. No past recessions account for mass social isolation. We know social isolation is very bad for your health. That alone may increase the mortality rate. 

https://www.hrsa.gov/enews/past-issues/2019/january-17/loneliness-epidemic

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/11/181116110632.htm

Unemployment rate will be greater than all past recessions outside of maybe the great depression. So again, I don't take think this would be comparable to any past US recession. 

Just because we have more data on problem A than problem B doesn't mean we should put all our eggs into solving problem A and that "there's no point speculating about a downside we can't measure".

 

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1 hour ago, MrBrett said:

Where we're at the moment is buying time. Time to get more data to make better decisions going forward. Time to ramp up testing, better testing methods.Time to make machines to process tests. Time to come up with new therapeutic treatments. Time for companies to collaborate like Google and Apple to come together for virus tracking abilty.

Yes, very expensive and getting more so by the second with real hardship. 

Yesterday, our President said he'll soon make his most important decision he'll ever make on when and how to move forward from where we are currently, buying time.

President can’t stop lockdowns. Only the states can. 

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Posted (edited)

"N.J. coronavirus cases surge to 58,151 with 2,183 deaths. Officials announce 3,599 new cases and 251 new fatalities."

Ugh.. I hope this is at least the peak of it. Maybe in a week or 2 the numbers will begin to subside 😕

 

"Customers picking up food from N.J. restaurants must wear masks, Murphy says"

Starting Monday at 8pm it'll be required. Doesn't need to be a medical grade mask, bandanas will suffice.

Edited by MrBrown

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32 minutes ago, fletch44 said:

I am sorry, if you're gonna leave the lane open, I'm gonna take it to a the hole.  I can't help myself.  

 

You completely misstated my position because it's more convenient to argue against "wants to keep the economy shut down for a year" than my explicit wishes that we return to normal as soon as we can without undue loss of life.  You continue to do so with "put all of our eggs in one basket", which I said from the beginning wasn't my argument.  At this point, yeah, let's agree to disagree.

 

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44 minutes ago, tonycpsu said:

 

You completely misstated my position because it's more convenient to argue against "wants to keep the economy shut down for a year" than my explicit wishes that we return to normal as soon as we can without undue loss of life.  You continue to do so with "put all of our eggs in one basket", which I said from the beginning wasn't my argument.  At this point, yeah, let's agree to disagree.

 

I apologize for misstating your position. I can't keep track of who says what on here. I think what you said here is what everyone wants. My initial post was simply to highlight the complexity of the problem and that due to varying factors there's likely to be an added loss of life the longer we stay in this state. I think we mostly disagree on how mortality rates from past recessions are relevant to our current predicament. Good day and stay healthy.

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6 minutes ago, Backdoor Slider said:

Honestly, I don’t think one person is wondering why we social distance. 

Girls would social distance themselves from me in high school.   Could never figure it out.

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11 minutes ago, Backdoor Slider said:

Honestly, I don’t think one person is wondering why we social distance. 

Besides the guy constantly saying all it’s doing is killing more long term right?


Why do I think there won’t be a season? Because a lot of professional athletes are really, really ******** dumb. 
https://apple.news/AT8dwfbpmT-aZCQN2CxZpjA

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37 minutes ago, daynlokki said:

Besides the guy constantly saying all it’s doing is killing more long term right?


Why do I think there won’t be a season? Because a lot of professional athletes are really, really ******** dumb. 
https://apple.news/AT8dwfbpmT-aZCQN2CxZpjA

And there were like 1400+ comments to that and most all were very highly negative.

Also that just shows that if pro sports try to open too soon with all the perks of endless twice a day tests etc while the health workers are still stressed and most of their fellow Americans still can't go back to work then sports could face a giant backlash.

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Piling on here but...

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/492258-experts-fear-national-naivete-on-covid-optimism

Quote

“There is a disconnect. It’s sort of a national naïveté about what the next 18 months means, maybe a sort of willful refusal to deal with the brutal facts,” said Prabhjot Singh, a physician and health systems expert at the Mount Sinai Health System and the Icahn School of Medicine... “I think the cognitive dissonance will continue, and the shocks will come and go, bearing down hardest on people who have less reservoir.”

 

Quote

“This is a four-quarter game. We're probably now getting to be toward the latter part of the first quarter. New York City is in the middle of the second quarter. Asia is getting past halftime, and Europe may be at halftime,” said Clay Marsh, the vice president and executive dean for health sciences at West Virginia University, who has been tapped to lead his state's coronavirus response team.

 

But some optimism...for 2021 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-11/coronavirus-vaccine-could-be-ready-in-six-months-times

 

Quote

Sarah Gilbert, professor of vaccinology at Oxford University, told The Times on Saturday that she is “80% confident” the vaccine would work, and could be ready by September.


 

Quote

Manufacturing the millions of vaccine doses necessary could take months.

 

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My biggest issue right now for this ending any time soon, is the people that had been sent home being negative and now are returning a month later positive again. This is a VERY strange virus. 100+ in South Korea just yesterday that were sent home negative weeks before are now positive again. I'm concerned.

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N.J. hospital is 1st in U.S to try placenta therapy on critically ill coronavirus patient
https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/04/nj-hospital-tries-experimental-placenta-therapy-on-critically-ill-coronavirus-patient.html

The procedure is championed by Pluristem Therapeutics, a Haifa, Israel, biotech company. On Tuesday, Pluristem announced that six critically ill COVID-19 patients in Israel had survived at least a week after receiving the cells, with four showing improved respiration.

 

 

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6 hours ago, MrBrown said:

N.J. hospital is 1st in U.S to try placenta therapy on critically ill coronavirus patient
https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/04/nj-hospital-tries-experimental-placenta-therapy-on-critically-ill-coronavirus-patient.html

The procedure is championed by Pluristem Therapeutics, a Haifa, Israel, biotech company. On Tuesday, Pluristem announced that six critically ill COVID-19 patients in Israel had survived at least a week after receiving the cells, with four showing improved respiration.

 

 

Hopefully it works, the article does not say, but i am assuming that 2 of those 6 who were allowed to live longer eventually was able to recover fully, just at a slower rate? You wouldnt know, just throwing it out there.

I am curious though if cells from the same placenta could be used on multiple people or if its just a one per kinda thing.. alot of pregnancies would need to take place if the case of 1 per.

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22 hours ago, jonninho said:

This article is suggesting that people live longer when in times of economic hardship?

really?... i guess we should all just stop working and making money then.. we will all live longer..

Unfortunately, it doesnt appear to me that article takes into account people who develop mental health issues.. or discusses the ones who develop mental health issues and dont even go get checked up.. or how many turn to the bottle? Naturally, the theory makes sense... people dont goto work.. stay home.. live longer.. sure.. less people outside.. less opportunity for crime.. violence.. car accidents.. it does make sense..

but, it doesnt paint a true picture.

You do realize for a lot of people work is very stressful? How is that for their health?

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31 minutes ago, azeri98 said:

You do realize for a lot of people work is very stressful? How is that for their health?

As bad as this may sound.. if you're going to work and are getting 'stressed out' to the point you cant leave your work at work.. it may be a good idea to reconsider the career path..

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25 minutes ago, jonninho said:

As bad as this may sound.. if you're going to work and are getting 'stressed out' to the point you cant leave your work at work.. it may be a good idea to reconsider the career path..

 

Or maybe many people have limited choices, all of which lead to a lot of stress?

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16 hours ago, MrPositive said:

My biggest issue right now for this ending any time soon, is the people that had been sent home being negative and now are returning a month later positive again. This is a VERY strange virus. 100+ in South Korea just yesterday that were sent home negative weeks before are now positive again. I'm concerned.

 

"False test results also could be the cause, other experts said, or remnants of the virus could still be in people’s systems but not be infectious or of danger to the host or anyone else."

At the present time, I think it's probably that -- I'm hoping it is. 

I haven't seen, are the people with reactivation(?) experiencing symptoms? 

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15 minutes ago, IceGoat said:

 

"False test results also could be the cause, other experts said, or remnants of the virus could still be in people’s systems but not be infectious or of danger to the host or anyone else."

At the present time, I think it's probably that -- I'm hoping it is. 

I haven't seen, are the people with reactivation(?) experiencing symptoms? 

Another worthwhile question is incidents of transmission from reactivation.

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17 hours ago, MrPositive said:

My biggest issue right now for this ending any time soon, is the people that had been sent home being negative and now are returning a month later positive again. This is a VERY strange virus. 100+ in South Korea just yesterday that were sent home negative weeks before are now positive again. I'm concerned.

My wife's friend's husband, who is fighting for his life in NYC at age 41, tested negative twice before a positive test the third time. The doctors have been assuming he's had COVID-19 since the beginning, however. To say we have a long ways to go on testing is a huge understatement.

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As I read, I keep thinking....keep feeding the frenzy...there are two camps; the fear camp and the other camp. Personally, I’m over this. We’ve played it enough...✌️

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1 hour ago, IceGoat said:

 

"False test results also could be the cause, other experts said, or remnants of the virus could still be in people’s systems but not be infectious or of danger to the host or anyone else."

At the present time, I think it's probably that -- I'm hoping it is. 

I haven't seen, are the people with reactivation(?) experiencing symptoms? 

There was a slightly ominous study in China that showed some people who had been infected were still showing low antibodies after they recovered.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3078840/coronavirus-low-antibody-levels-raise-questions-about

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