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Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion

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@hailtoyourvictor what "hazard pay" is this you speak of? my wife works for a hospital, along with several of our friends at other hospitals, and i've yet to hear anything about hazard pay, or anything related to pay versus number of COVID patients. is this something that your state does specifically? pretty sure it's not nationwide.

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53 minutes ago, GamblorLA said:

 

Restaurants are open for take out here so I've been throwing some business to mom and pop.  Some of the more popular ones seem to be doing well.  There's a thai place that has a whole system down where you call in your order and then they bring it to your car.  Of course, many other places are closed or taking a beating.  Certain foods aren't usually take out, few people get take out at more upscale places, etc.  

Chain restaurants were already bailed out by the crooks.  The worst snippet here is Shake Shake getting a $10million loan when they have $100million cash on hand, as small places are denied loans.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/19/business/small-businesses-ppp-loans-chain-restaurants/index.html

At the end of the day, this will be a great benefit to large chains because their competition in local business will be destroyed and they can tighten their stranglehold.  When you compare the amount of campaign contributions, speaking fees, lobbying, fake jobs for family members, and other bribes that are thrown around by large corporations vs small business, I think you'll be able to guess which businesses DC will save and which ones they will be pleased to see die.  

This is an opportunity in a way, to reevaluate where we are headed.  So far it looks like the things that made our society fragile, as discussed in that rolling stone historian interview someone posted, will be exacerbated.

I read that Shake Shake gave back their 10 million loan due to public backlash. This is what fear of the unknown does to people, it make them greedy and selfish and only think of the themselves aka the great toilet paper collection.

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Well, was hoping for a bit more time for data and more testing before relaxing stay at home orders for some in whole States in places like Georgia. Montana seems like a better place to start based on recent Federal guidelines. Balancing Lives vs Livelyhoods is where we're at 

The second wave of Spanish Flu was far more deadly than the first. 

 

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5 hours ago, tonycpsu said:

 

Definitely.  The financial hardship, including the massive unemployment numbers, have been discussed here a lot.  What I don't think people understand is that reopening businesses doesn't force customers to show up.  Maybe there will be a spike as people rush to hair stylists and dentists, but a lot of the public is still going to proceed with caution, meaning demand is not going to return to pre-lockdown levels for a very long time.  Just as a second wave of infections can happen, so too can a second wave of layoffs when business owners don't get the jolt they might be expecting.

Exactly. I may not be working as I still have symptoms but my job is considered essential. Before all this we had 72 plumbers and three full crews for our water damage restoration portion of the business. Have stayed open the entire time. They laid off everyone but 5 plumbers and they rotate a crew for water damage every week. If went from 3-4 new jobs a day to 1-2 a week. 

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Even relaxing standards isn’t going to give all these people their job back. Not everyone is going to be hired back on after being laid off. Even essential jobs that have issues finding bodies on a regular basis when there isn’t a pandemic aren’t going to be hiring everyone back. There isn’t enough business. 

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2 hours ago, osb_tensor said:

@hailtoyourvictor what "hazard pay" is this you speak of? my wife works for a hospital, along with several of our friends at other hospitals, and i've yet to hear anything about hazard pay, or anything related to pay versus number of COVID patients. is this something that your state does specifically? pretty sure it's not nationwide.

 

Some hospitals offer hazard pay, some don't.

 

It is something our health system announced it would pay out on Monday last week. On Thursday they announced they were no longer going to offer it because our COVID volumes at my hospital weren't high enough.

 

Even if our hospital met volume criteria, they are saying I wouldn't qualify for it because I don't spend enough of my shift with COVID patients. It's b/s.

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9 hours ago, Backdoor Slider said:

 

Maybe some are protesting for this reason. I know a guy who had stage 2 colon cancer. He’s had some concerns recently and wants to be seen. But it’s not emergency and therefore he can’t. He is angry and supports the protesters. 

As always, these things are extremely nuanced, yet everyone just wants to scream “JUST STAY HOME. DO WHAT YOURE TOLD. STOP BEING SELFISH!” With zero room for nuance. Not unexpected for an online forum I suppose, but frustrating nonetheless.

 

I get what you are saying.  I go for a walk every day, usually spin through the public park. Initially I'd see people tossing a ball and in one instance, having a birthday party and my gut reaction was wut!  But then I realized those people all very likely live together.  (The birthday party was 2 parents and several kids who were all obviously in the same family at an isolated picnic table).  

Walking around my neighborhood, most people have masks and virtually everyone keeps their distance.  Though yes, masked me sometimes momentarily steps within 6 feet.  

Truth be told, a closer look at those FL beach pics and it kind of looks like clumps of couples and families that are pretty well spaced apart.  

I've seen some numbers thrown around suggesting it is pretty hard to catch it when outside.  

Acknowledging all of that, with the way it spreads and our lack of knowledge about it, it makes sense to err on the side of caution, especially with things we can do without.  I believe you said yourself, Mich got hard hit, probably just because the wrong people happened to come through the airport.  It seems like a really volatile situation. 

Also it's kind of a negotiating ploy type thing.  Or a speed limit thing.  People are going to push the boundaries so they need to be set conservatively. 

Running with the wwii example, I'd bet that the rationing and stuff was probably not optimized and sometimes people could have had more butter or meat or whatever without really hurting the cause.  But refining the rationing so people could have a little more stuff they didn't really need wasn't the primary concern.  Same thing here.  We do need to gradually ease the restrictions as we learn more.  A big thing will be if it turns out once you've had it you're more or less all clear, and testing is abundant.  But I think it's still time to be conservative.  

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11 hours ago, brockpapersizer said:


Once again. Regardless of the CBA,  every player in every sport under contract already has the option to not honor their contract and not get paid, even if there was no pandemic.
 

I know this isn't the case for every player, but I absolutely assume that most players are eager to pay and get paid. These guys worked real hard most or all of their adult lives and much of their "childhood" to get to where they are professionally. Most MLB careers are well under 10 years, I'm assuming under 5. Losing 5 to 50% of your most profitable financial years of your working life is something that most of these guys do not want to do. 

The money is a factor of course but so is their health and the health of their families 

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I'm supposed to go for my second round of chemo and they have now put it off. I don't have a date when I will be going back.

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44 minutes ago, azeri98 said:

I'm supposed to go for my second round of chemo and they have now put it off. I don't have a date when I will be going back.

Why wouldn't that be considered "essential"? 

That's nuts. 

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4 minutes ago, 2ndCitySox said:

Why wouldn't that be considered "essential"? 

That's nuts. 

You would think. I had my first round just before the virus got bad. Now they tell me it's too dangerous for me to go to the hospital because of my weak immune system from the first round. I'm so pissed off. 

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In a bit of personal good news I was recalled to my job after a three week furlough. I work in corporate retail and the hope is we’ll be able to open some stores with restrictions (i.e. face masks, limiting the number of people in the store, etc.) in the next few weeks.

I can’t support what the Georgia governor is doing. This is the dude who’s done basically nothing and found out like two weeks ago asymptomatic people can spread it and thought it was breaking news. They’re re-opening pre-peak. Can’t see how it ends well.

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57 minutes ago, azeri98 said:

You would think. I had my first round just before the virus got bad. Now they tell me it's too dangerous for me to go to the hospital because of my weak immune system from the first round. I'm so pissed off. 

 

Damn, that sucks.  It sounds like it's more for your protection than they are out of resources, but that doesn't make it any better.  

Hopefully they figure out a way to segregate things so people like you can get their treatment without crossing paths with COVID patients.  

Best of luck to you. 

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3 hours ago, azeri98 said:

I'm supposed to go for my second round of chemo and they have now put it off. I don't have a date when I will be going back.

 

That is terrible.

 

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8 hours ago, JE7HorseGod said:

Near Atlanta here.  Certainly not a surprise given Kemp's previous statements during the crisis.  Gonna have to hold our breath and see what happens I guess.  Hope for the best.  Cases will almost certainly go up.

 

It will be sort of a test case. It will be interesting to see what happens with hospital admissions.  

If it goes well there could be a domino effect with other states opening soon after.

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Texas Gov. Greg Abbott announces team to restart the economy, loosens some restrictions

Quote

Gov. Greg Abbott on Friday announced initial steps to reopen the Texas economy during the coronavirus pandemic, including those that in the next week will loosen surgery restrictions at medical facilities, allow all retail stores to provide product pickups and reopen state parks.

 

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27 minutes ago, tonycpsu said:

IF...IFFFFFFF cases do not spike upwards dramatically in the states of Arizona, Texas, and i would like to say Florida.. but their situation does concern me more than others... i could certainly see this 3 state idea working which contains 5 major league ball parks with domes/retractable roofs proceeding forward. It would certainly be interesting to see who MLB determines to play where and the division set up. IMO, it would make sense for MLB to place 2 divisions per state, and when they have played whatever amount of games allocated to within that division, they take a few days break and relocate to another state to play their share of games within the other division. For example:

AL EAST. Blue Jays play each division team 20 times (random numbers).. accounts for 80 games = half the season. Situated in Arizona. 80 games played. Move to Texas to play AL Central for 20 games. Just an idea. Dont see why it wouldnt work, though. Break inbetween gives teams/staff to clear out.. sanitze facilities.. time for the disease to die on its own on whatever surface.

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1 hour ago, tonycpsu said:

initial steps to reopen the Texas economy during the coronavirus pandemic

 

Virus health concerns aside for a moment, the oil collapse alone will be devastating for Texas.

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serious question, not sarcasm.

do these governors think that there will be a different result now than when they locked things down a few weeks ago?

there are no vaccines, or any such mechanisms that i'm aware of, preventing the spread of the virus other than isolation/distancing. if we/they lower the restrictions now, aren't we just going to slip back into the likelihood of skyrocketing cases and the overloading of healthcare systems?

what data exists that indicates the general public is now "safe." 

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8 minutes ago, osb_tensor said:

serious question, not sarcasm.

do these governors think that there will be a different result now than when they locked things down a few weeks ago?

there are no vaccines, or any such mechanisms that i'm aware of, preventing the spread of the virus other than isolation/distancing. if we/they lower the restrictions now, aren't we just going to slip back into the likelihood of skyrocketing cases and the overloading of healthcare systems?

what data exists that indicates the general public is now "safe." 

I think in Kemp's case, it's not that people won't get sick, it's that he believes the healthcare system here in GA won't be overburdened.  They've set up remote testing facilities for people to drive through and get tested.  They've set up triage care in convention centers.  That kind of thing.

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8 minutes ago, osb_tensor said:

serious question, not sarcasm.

do these governors think that there will be a different result now than when they locked things down a few weeks ago?

there are no vaccines, or any such mechanisms that i'm aware of, preventing the spread of the virus other than isolation/distancing. if we/they lower the restrictions now, aren't we just going to slip back into the likelihood of skyrocketing cases and the overloading of healthcare systems?

what data exists that indicates the general public is now "safe." 

The general public is likely not going to be safe until Fall of 2021 (18 months/vaccine?) or later. I guess my question would be, what are your expectations? That we keep completely sheltered in our homes for another year+?
In many places, the “curve” has been flattened, or will be in the next week or two. Even here in Michigan, where we were hit relatively hard compared to our population, we never got to the point where we ran out of ventilators or beds. And now it’s getting better. 
Is it going to spike again once restrictions are loosened? Sure. Likely. But as long as the system isn’t overwhelmed, things are going to open back up. Waiting until it’s “safe” was never the plan.

 

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6 minutes ago, osb_tensor said:

serious question, not sarcasm.

do these governors think that there will be a different result now than when they locked things down a few weeks ago?

there are no vaccines, or any such mechanisms that i'm aware of, preventing the spread of the virus other than isolation/distancing. if we/they lower the restrictions now, aren't we just going to slip back into the likelihood of skyrocketing cases and the overloading of healthcare systems?

what data exists that indicates the general public is now "safe." 

The assumption is that the health systems are/should be better prepared now. So it is gradually opening things up with social distancing and go from there.  What is the alternative? If it spreads a symptomatic then we may all be infected already. Antibody test will tell us some if this info

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@JE7HorseGod @Backdoor Slider @Dr. Whom

thank you for the responses.

horsegod, yeah, makes sense.

slider, my personal expectation would be that until we have enough PPE for the public to participate in routine activities, we do not reopen/return to normal. for example, i cannot buy hydrogen peroxide, disposable gloves, hand sanitizer or face masks. if we return to normal operation, i am expected to return to work, and my employer has stated they cannot get any PPE... what do i do? until we can answer this question, i don't feel that we're adequately prepared for a return to normal.

whom, similar response as horsegod, and it makes sense. i do question whether healthcare systems are more prepared. i can speak for a couple of our local hospitals, and  confidently state that we have no more ventilators now than we did one month ago. what we started with, is what we are still equipped with.

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8 minutes ago, osb_tensor said:

@JE7HorseGod @Backdoor Slider @Dr. Whom

thank you for the responses.

horsegod, yeah, makes sense.

slider, my personal expectation would be that until we have enough PPE for the public to participate in routine activities, we do not reopen/return to normal. for example, i cannot buy hydrogen peroxide, disposable gloves, hand sanitizer or face masks. if we return to normal operation, i am expected to return to work, and my employer has stated they cannot get any PPE... what do i do? until we can answer this question, i don't feel that we're adequately prepared for a return to normal.

whom, similar response as horsegod, and it makes sense. i do question whether healthcare systems are more prepared. i can speak for a couple of our local hospitals, and  confidently state that we have no more ventilators now than we did one month ago. what we started with, is what we are still equipped with.

I think it's fair to question.

There's so much I feel like we don't know, given that so few tests were available, what happens if a second wave is just as bad or even worse than the first.

Nonetheless, it appears that for some states, the time is upon us to find out.  So we just have to hope for the best.

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1 hour ago, osb_tensor said:

slider, my personal expectation would be that until we have enough PPE for the public to participate in routine activities, we do not reopen/return to normal. for example, i cannot buy hydrogen peroxide, disposable gloves, hand sanitizer or face masks. if we return to normal operation, i am expected to return to work, and my employer has stated they cannot get any PPE... what do i do? until we can answer this question, i don't feel that we're adequately prepared for a return to normal.

 

Some prominent nerds put together this plan, which mathematician Vi Hart summarizes in the following video:

 

The plan includes a four-step roadmap for a return to normal, step one of which involves a massive increase in testing capacity and widespread availability of PPE.  Absent those, easing of restrictions, no matter how well-intentioned and carefully executed, is likely to lead to a large spike in cases, dragging out the process of a return to normal.

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