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Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Backdoor Slider said:

I think we should dive into the missteps of media darling Cuomo, who refused to close the busiest city in the world quickly, argued with Trump when Trump suggested the feds might make the decision if he wasn’t willing to, and now the whole nursing home problem. Yikes. I wonder why we’re so quick to bash one, and crickets on the other. 🤔

One seems to be taking steps to rectifying/limiting the effects of their mistake while the other seems to be doubling down at every turn and actively making things worse. 

 

 

Eta by all means criticize both. They've earned it. But it's incredibly dangerous and misleading to try lumping these two into the same pile under some both sides argument. 

Edited by AnonymousRob
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34 minutes ago, Thenewwildone8 said:

Probably because most media companies are owned by Democrats and they don’t want people voting for Republicans. 

 

Surprise surprise, "The Virus is a hoax!" guy is out of touch with reality.

Media companies are giant corporations, like Disney.  Most of the media outlets (CNN, Fox, NYT) are owned by a handful of these giant corporations. They are owned by whoever owns the stock. 

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Meanwhile, back on planet earth, in addition to cruise lines that operate under foreign flags and lobbying firms, looks like some of your bailout money is going to go to predatory lenders.  

 

 

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On 5/7/2020 at 7:33 PM, daynlokki said:

Well not opening things up all at once across the entire nation, that’s for sure. Mississippi just went from phase 1 to 2 in ONE WEEK. I’d probably follow the guidelines of the CDC and Dr Fauci, which we definitely aren’t doing currently. I mean, that’s what they are paid for. States are giving our entire scientific community a huge middle finger right now and I have a horrible feeling that’s going to come back to bite us far, far more than a depression would. Which we are more likely than not having anyways. 

I do agree that states really aren’t doing jack **** to lead to the best case scenario for opening. You really have two things:

1) States rushing to open when there’s high risk in doing so.

2) States staying closed sitting on their a** hoping things magically go away.

When in reality we should be working on providing massive testing infrastructure and securing high risk areas so we can safely allow people to resume life like we see in other areas.

I genuinely don’t get what states are doing. This is my problem with the staying closed. States are just closed not doing anything to move in the right direction. Pathetic. 

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12 hours ago, Sidearmer said:

 

Unemployment rate just tripled. The stock market is not a good indicator of the economy right now.

Nor is it going up indicative of the stock markets real value.

A lot has been pumped into the markets to keep them afloat. Not to mention even before the crash the markets were ridiculously high and over bought. There’s a good chance a lot of people putting money into the markets thinking they’ll ride the wave up are going to be in for a rude surprise. 

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Yeah, it's just the valuation of the biggest corps and means very little about the state of the economy for most people.  Corona will help the stock market in some ways. They are getting massive hand outs from the feds. A lot of small businesses will be destroyed.  If Joe's coffee goes out of business, that's great for Starbucks. If Mary's salon goes down, that's great news for Super Cuts.  If Billy's Burgers shutters that's awesome for Burger King. 

It also means the middle class shrunk, local workers will probably get paid less, consumers have fewer choices and less money will circulate within those communities, instead being sucked out into Wall Street. 

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34 minutes ago, Gohawks said:

I do agree that states really aren’t doing jack **** to lead to the best case scenario for opening. You really have two things:

1) States rushing to open when there’s high risk in doing so.

2) States staying closed sitting on their a** hoping things magically go away.

When in reality we should be working on providing massive testing infrastructure and securing high risk areas so we can safely allow people to resume life like we see in other areas.

I genuinely don’t get what states are doing. This is my problem with the staying closed. States are just closed not doing anything to move in the right direction. Pathetic. 

They are closed because testing is nowhere near where it should be to reopen. If testing was prevalent it would be a completely different story. 

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1 minute ago, daynlokki said:

They are closed because testing is nowhere near where it should be to reopen. If testing was prevalent it would be a completely different story. 

They are closed because it is not pc to open and could destroy your business.

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13 minutes ago, daynlokki said:

They are closed because testing is nowhere near where it should be to reopen. If testing was prevalent it would be a completely different story. 

Testing is nowhere near where it should be because states aren't doing anything. That's my entire point.

There is no plan to reopen. There is no target date, no outline, and no action plan. Nothing. States are closed sitting on their a** hoping for a magic solution to rain down from the sky or who knows what. If we had an outline that went something like "We will build X quick access testing facilities in the state of Y to allow it to open by Z" then people in said state would have no problem waiting for said date. The problem is states keep pushing back the reopening date without doing anything or having a plan in motion. Posting plans to reopening presented by the White House is great but if the states don't have action plans it's pointless.  

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11 minutes ago, Gohawks said:

 

There is no plan to reopen. There is no target date, no outline, and no action plan. Nothing. 

Might I ask what you're basing this off, and what state you're in?

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29 minutes ago, AnonymousRob said:

Might I ask what you're basing this off, and what state you're in?

It doesn't matter what state I am in. What states have legitimate action plans in motion for reopening? What states have legitimate target dates to reopen instead of just extending quarantine each time? 

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Good news :  From what I have heard we will more than likely have a vaccine by September.

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Gohawks said:

It doesn't matter what state I am in. What states have legitimate action plans in motion for reopening? What states have legitimate target dates to reopen instead of just extending quarantine each time? 

I suppose your state doesn't matter, but you were so confident in saying states have nothing I was curious to see if it was specific to your state. California has a legitimate action plan. 

Edited by AnonymousRob
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24 minutes ago, AnonymousRob said:

I suppose your state doesn't matter, but you were so confident in saying states have nothing I was curious to see if it was specific to your state. California has a legitimate action plan. 

My state is Washington if you must know.

Yeah, no they don’t. Just because they are moving into opening certain parts and just because they have a set of guidelines for when they will open doesn’t mean they have legitimate plan.

It’s like saying to get to the moon is a 4 stage plan. First, you figure out how to build a rocket. Second, you build a rocket. Third, you train astronauts. Forth, you calculate a course to the moon. How do I plan to do any of this and by when? Who cares but at least it’s a plan...

California doesn’t have a legitimate action plan. There is no timeline. I don’t see them providing legitimate solutions to testing or how to meet their other criteria. Unless I’m missing something (and if I am feel free to provide sources) California has a rough outline and that’s it. Calling it a plan is a stretch.

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3 hours ago, Gohawks said:

It doesn't matter what state I am in. What states have legitimate action plans in motion for reopening? What states have legitimate target dates to reopen instead of just extending quarantine each time? 

You keep seeming to forget that there is a herd called the coronavirus on the loose which makes any plans tentative at best.  And regards the post above I don;t recall covid-19 messing with plans to build rockets to the moon back in the day.

My state has been making all sorts of plans and consulting with all sorts of businesses.  But it is a state where the totals of infections ares till on the rise so what the hell good are plans until the plague is contained?  All sorts of plans have been made in many states but without enough test kits and regents to make them work and without the coronavirus cooperating these plans don't mean diddly.  There is no magic wand to wave it away.  If you find one let us all know.

This is so modern America with the Instant Fast Food King attitude combined with a participation trophy mentality.  Just get impatient and stomp your feet and make that nasty virus go away because you are tired of waiting it out and you deserve to get what you want immediately so how dare that virus still be around and how dare there be some people still not wanting to practice some Aztec human sacrifice ritual to get the "economy" up and running right away but prefer to value lives over money.

Yes small businesses are hurting so go solve that problem by keeping them afloat in the meantime and don't throw in the towel and declare victory over piles and piles of dead bodies one of which may be yours.  And as much as we can have sympathy for those owners cannot we have some sympathy for workers in those places who, upon them opening before they should, face the choice of risking their very lives for often times minimum wages or choosing life and probably going homeless.

If this sounds like a bit of a rant it is.  I'm tired of reading about wanting people to live being just "pc" and the lack of basic human empathy and decently that attitude implies.  So yeah delete my post if you most but I had to vent and rage about discussions on how many people dying is okay if even waiting one more week would have saved some of those lives.  This country seems to have lost it's moral compass somewhere along the way.

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Reopening without a plan is why I anticipate most of these reopenings are going to land with a thud economically. Poll after poll shows that the majority of people just don’t feel it’s safe yet. There has been this federal-level belief all along that when things reopen it will be just like May 2019. That’s a pipe dream.

At the same time, I’ve come around to the idea of at least giving people a choice. We’ll have a good idea by the end of the month if these reopenings are straight up disasters or not. But as the jobless claims mount, it’s fair to ask how many healthy lives can afford to be ruined.

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7 hours ago, AnonymousRob said:

One seems to be taking steps to rectifying/limiting the effects of their mistake while the other seems to be doubling down at every turn and actively making things worse. 

 

 

Eta by all means criticize both. They've earned it. But it's incredibly dangerous and misleading to try lumping these two into the same pile under some both sides argument. 

Making things worse? Show me data to support that. Because the way I see it, one is fooling many people who judge based on words, not actions. “He’s taken 8 wrong turns but dog gone it, he’s now trying to fix that!” 😂👌🏼

What’s incredibly dangerous is to blindly believe people at their word, despite results of their actions. “He’s trying” isn’t enough for me, and it shouldn’t be enough for anyone. Yet, here we are.

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2 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

You keep seeming to forget that there is a herd called the coronavirus on the loose which makes any plans tentative at best.  And regards the post above I don;t recall covid-19 messing with plans to build rockets to the moon back in the day.

My state has been making all sorts of plans and consulting with all sorts of businesses.  But it is a state where the totals of infections ares till on the rise so what the hell good are plans until the plague is contained?  All sorts of plans have been made in many states but without enough test kits and regents to make them work and without the coronavirus cooperating these plans don't mean diddly.  There is no magic wand to wave it away.  If you find one let us all know.

This is so modern America with the Instant Fast Food King attitude combined with a participation trophy mentality.  Just get impatient and stomp your feet and make that nasty virus go away because you are tired of waiting it out and you deserve to get what you want immediately so how dare that virus still be around and how dare there be some people still not wanting to practice some Aztec human sacrifice ritual to get the "economy" up and running right away but prefer to value lives over money.

Yes small businesses are hurting so go solve that problem by keeping them afloat in the meantime and don't throw in the towel and declare victory over piles and piles of dead bodies one of which may be yours.  And as much as we can have sympathy for those owners cannot we have some sympathy for workers in those places who, upon them opening before they should, face the choice of risking their very lives for often times minimum wages or choosing life and probably going homeless.

If this sounds like a bit of a rant it is.  I'm tired of reading about wanting people to live being just "pc" and the lack of basic human empathy and decently that attitude implies.  So yeah delete my post if you most but I had to vent and rage about discussions on how many people dying is okay if even waiting one more week would have saved some of those lives.  This country seems to have lost it's moral compass somewhere along the way.

What is waiting one more week going to do if getting the virus is inevitable. The lockdown is to help hospitals not to save every life possible. 

 

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0 confirmed cases in Hawaii and former hot spot Orleans Parish yesterday.

Deaths and hospitalizations on the decline in New York.

From April 3rd through April 25th there were 12 days where there over 30,000 confirmed new cases in the US.  Since then there has been 1.

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5 hours ago, Gohawks said:

California doesn’t have a legitimate action plan. There is no timeline.

 

The problem with timelines is that people get attached to them if circumstances warrant changing them.  By setting out a series of benchmarks for new cases, testing, hospital capacity, etc. and letting time be a free variable that's solved for by meeting those objective criteria, you avoid unnecessarily frustrating and demoralizing the citizens of your state if circumstances beyond your control force a change of plans.  You can also allow different parts of your state to open up as circumstances warrant, which is what's happening in a lot of places.

Setting individual timelines with specific target dates for all 67 of Pennsylvania's counties is absurd when you can just say that each county has to be under X new cases per day, have this much percent of hospital beds available, etc.  It also allows for a simple and understandable explanation for pulling back on the reopening if a second wave starts to occur in any of those counties.

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It’s May 9th and it’s snowing here in New York because there’s a polar vortex. That’s ok, I wouldn’t be able to do anything anyway because the world is shutdown because of a global pandemic. Oh, and apparently there’s an invasion of murder hornets. Other than that things are looking pretty good!

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2 hours ago, duke of queens said:

What is waiting one more week going to do if getting the virus is inevitable. The lockdown is to help hospitals not to save every life possible.

One week.  One month.  Whatever.  Lives are saved.  And yes the lockdown was to save as many lives as possible by way of NOT contracting the virus.  The result being that we receive the bonus thrown in of helping preventing hospitals from getting overwhelmed which by definition happens with every life protected from the virus.  And every life successfully protected is a life saved. 

And lives are not mere stats.  If that "not to save every life possible" wasn't something intellectually abstract but it was your life or one of your loved ones would you think the same?.  And every single person is a loved one of someone else and wants to survive.  "Every life possible" implies it is possible to save that life.  If it is possible then we should try our very best to do it.

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33 minutes ago, meh2 said:

It’s May 9th and it’s snowing here in New York because there’s a polar vortex. That’s ok, I wouldn’t be able to do anything anyway because the world is shutdown because of a global pandemic. Oh, and apparently there’s an invasion of murder hornets. Other than that things are looking pretty good!

lol, same here in Toronto. Waking up to snow on May 9th is a beautiful thing... can 2020 just end already?

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Backdoor Slider said:

Making things worse? Show me data to support that. Because the way I see it, one is fooling many people who judge based on words, not actions. “He’s taken 8 wrong turns but dog gone it, he’s now trying to fix that!” 😂👌🏼

What’s incredibly dangerous is to blindly believe people at their word, despite results of their actions. “He’s trying” isn’t enough for me, and it shouldn’t be enough for anyone. Yet, here we are.

Here's an article discussing some of his many, many, missteps. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/3/14/21177509/coronavirus-trump-covid-19-pandemic-response

I didn't see it cover him suggesting injecting disinfectant which resulted in an increase to poison control center calls, encouraging more protestors which has led to a direct rise in cases, or the feds openly stealing PPE from states and cities.

 

[...]

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/494744-poison-control-centers-report-increase-in-calls-pertaining-to-exposure-to

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-admin-seizing-ppe/

 

https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/493707-kentucky-sees-highest-spike-in-coronavirus-cases

Edited by tonycpsu
*If* this tangent is going to continue, it needs to be focused on the issues, not attacking others.
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14 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

One week.  One month.  Whatever.  Lives are saved.  And yes the lockdown was to save as many lives as possible by way of NOT contracting the virus.  The result being that we receive the bonus thrown in of helping preventing hospitals from getting overwhelmed which by definition happens with every life protected from the virus.  And every life successfully protected is a life saved. 

And lives are not mere stats.  If that "not to save every life possible" wasn't something intellectually abstract but it was your life or one of your loved ones would you think the same?.  And every single person is a loved one of someone else and wants to survive.  "Every life possible" implies it is possible to save that life.  If it is possible then we should try our very best to do it.

If this is the case then why dont we lockdown during flu season where 50k people die in the U.S. every year and where we are behind on an up to date vaccine. Those people are expendable? 60% of the new hospitalizations in NYC were people that were on "lockdown." That's not good. Everyone is going to get this virus whether you believe that or not. Lockdown is to slow the spread not prevent the spread. 

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