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Coronavirus (COVID-19) Baseball Impact

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3 minutes ago, JE7HorseGod said:

It sounds like there is another potential issue that needs to be resolved aside from the most pressing public health and logistical issues, that being compensation for players for games played in empty stadiums.  From today's Rosenthal article in The Athletic:

The league has yet to make a proposal to the players’ union on the subject, but New York Governor Andrew Cuomo, in a CNN appearance Wednesday night, referenced potential salary cuts while discussing a conversation he had earlier in the day with Mets COO Jeff Wilpon.

“Apparently, Major League Baseball would have to make a deal with the players because if you have no one in the stands then the numbers are going to change, right? The economics are going to change,” Cuomo said.

Some on the players’ side, however, say the issue is already settled, pointing to the 17-page agreement the league and the union reached in March. The document created a framework for the sport during the shutdown, and includes a subhead titled, “Player Compensation and Benefits.”

A separate section of the deal, listing the conditions for games to resume, says the commissioner’s office and the union “will discuss in good faith the economic feasibility of playing games in the absence of spectators or at appropriate substitute neutral sites.” Similar phrasing exists in other parts of the agreement as well.

One person with knowledge of the deal said the clause was not intended to signal any willingness by the players to reopen salary discussions. Others said the issue was left undecided, and that the league made it clear to the union that economic adjustments would be necessary if games were played in empty parks.

 

This is utter BS to me.  Now owners get to weasel out of money they owe?  Why?  Because they aren't making as much money?  What happened to risk?  Why is it that these people get to claim they make as much money as they do because of the risks they take but every time risk comes around they cash in on the workers?  This goes far beyond just baseball as well.  

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Just now, FouLLine said:

 

This is utter BS to me.  Now owners get to weasel out of money they owe?  Why?  Because they aren't making as much money?  What happened to risk?  Why is it that these people get to claim they make as much money as they do because of the risks they take but every time risk comes around they cash in on the workers?  This goes far beyond just baseball as well.  

Right now it sounds like Cuomo speculating based on a conversation with Wilpon.

But I wouldn't say it would be the first time we've heard owners take a hard line with players.

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1 minute ago, JE7HorseGod said:

Right now it sounds like Cuomo speculating based on a conversation with Wilpon.

But I wouldn't say it would be the first time we've heard owners take a hard line with players.

 

Indeed... It's just sad that they get to keep winning the way that they do.  The draft is already being cut to 5-10 rounds.  Crushing hundreds of players dreams.  And for what?  To save the 5-25K you're going to pay to sign those kids?  The draft cut alone is nothing short of a national tragedy.  Back in the 90s teams could pick as many players as they wanted I remember the Yankees drafted 100 players one year. 

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1 minute ago, FouLLine said:

 

Indeed... It's just sad that they get to keep winning the way that they do.  The draft is already being cut to 5-10 rounds.  Crushing hundreds of players dreams.  And for what?  To save the 5-25K you're going to pay to sign those kids?  The draft cut alone is nothing short of a national tragedy.  Back in the 90s teams could pick as many players as they wanted I remember the Yankees drafted 100 players one year. 

Hard to imagine that the players don't have a lot of leverage in this type of scenario.

The owners want them to play, and there will be a lot of public sympathy for the players risking it, if they do decide they want to.

But I do tend to side with the players in labor disputes, so I'm probably biased.

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5 minutes ago, JE7HorseGod said:

Hard to imagine that the players don't have a lot of leverage in this type of scenario.

The owners want them to play, and there will be a lot of public sympathy for the players risking it, if they do decide they want to.

But I do tend to side with the players in labor disputes, so I'm probably biased.

 

Me too.... Anyone or any group with money can pretty much be an owner.  Not everyone can play major league baseball and most that can are lucky if they even get a 10 year window.  The league should stop catering to the owners.  The MLB should be leveraging the owners on behalf of the players.  The NBA took the Clippers from Donald Sterrling.  Just pose a if you want to make the kind of money MLB owners make you adhere to our rules.  Not the other way around.  Hell most of the stadiums are tax payer funded anyway so screw the owners.

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22 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

The Arizona/Florida plan was already officially scraped.  They said all in on Bubbletown Arizona or bust.  That was their only plan at this point.  And if you read directly above you will see that crazy scheme isn't getting off the ground all too well.

That plan was stupid. I also cannot understand why it was even brought to the table and anybody thought it was going to happen. 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, shakestreet said:

That plan was stupid. I also cannot understand why it was even brought to the table and anybody thought it was going to happen. 

 

Something along those lines are likely to happen.  Forget ticket sales.  The MLB is going to lose TV money as well as fans.  Baseball was dying after the strike in 1994.  Steroids actually were what saved the game which was why it was hard for upper management to really speak out against it until years later.  So yeah get ready for empty stadium games at one of if not both of the spring training sites.

 

Edited by FouLLine

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1 minute ago, FouLLine said:

 

Something along those lines are likely to happen.  Forget ticket sales.  The MLB is going to lose TV money as well as fans.  Baseball was dying after the strike in 1994.  Steroids actually were what saved the game which was why it was hard for upper management to really speak out against it until years later.

 

I don’t believe baseball is happening this year...  but I do agree with you about steroids it did bring life back into baseball. 

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21 minutes ago, shakestreet said:

I don’t believe baseball is happening this year...  but I do agree with you about steroids it did bring life back into baseball. 

100% false on both counts. Baseball is happening 100% this year because far far more serious things than covid-19 happened and the game wasn’t stopped. These restrictions aren’t continuing much longer with people beginning to riot and too much money is at stake. Steroids gave a ton of bad publicity when found out, it takes a really weird person to praise cheating. The damage that steroids gave Baseball far outweigh any positives.

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7 minutes ago, Thenewwildone8 said:

The damage that steroids gave Baseball far outweigh any positives.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/baseball/longterm/chase/articles/base27.htm

McGwire's and Sosa's home runs have helped to revive a sport that seemed in decline four years ago when a labor dispute forced cancellation of the 1994 World Series. Until this season, attendance remained below 1994 levels. Fans seemed to be coming back a bit at a time, but because of Sosa and McGwire, they came back in a rush.

 

Through Sept. 23, the Cardinals had drawn 3,010,629 fans this year, 553,693 more than during the same period last year. At an average ticket price of $15.47 this year, the increased attendance amounts to an extra $8.5 million in revenue to Cardinals' owners, not including the hot dogs, programs, parking and everything else that fans purchase at the stadium. Chicago's attendance is up by 393,136 compared to this time last year for a total of 2,583,444 fans, according to Team Marketing Report. At $14.63 per ticket, that amounts to an extra $5.6 million in revenue to the team.

Total attendance for all 30 Major League teams is 68.8 million so far, up 7.3 million from last year. 

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1 hour ago, Thenewwildone8 said:

100% false on both counts. Baseball is happening 100% this year because far far more serious things than covid-19 happened and the game wasn’t stopped. These restrictions aren’t continuing much longer with people beginning to riot and too much money is at stake. Steroids gave a ton of bad publicity when found out, it takes a really weird person to praise cheating. The damage that steroids gave Baseball far outweigh any positives.

What worse things?

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So do we keep the juiced ball or bring back steroids? Juice is good

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Man, some of y'all in this thread are freaking depressing.

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On 4/17/2020 at 3:44 AM, FouLLine said:

 

Me too.... Anyone or any group with money can pretty much be an owner.  Not everyone can play major league baseball and most that can are lucky if they even get a 10 year window.  The league should stop catering to the owners.  The MLB should be leveraging the owners on behalf of the players.  The NBA took the Clippers from Donald Sterrling.  Just pose a if you want to make the kind of money MLB owners make you adhere to our rules.  Not the other way around.  Hell most of the stadiums are tax payer funded anyway so screw the owners.

 

The problem is, if you get to the position where you can own a team, there's like a 75% chance you are a psychopath, or close to it.  

I mean, imagine owning a baseball team that prints money and being a billionaire and, instead of just enjoying it all, thinking to yourself, "I bet I can take money out of schools and the PD and FD and put it into my pocket by blackmailing the city."  

That's who we're dealing with.

 

Players are somewhat to blame too, as they also benefit and could speak up.  But they aren't the ones orchestrating it.  

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On 4/16/2020 at 1:16 PM, Thenewwildone8 said:

100% false on both counts. Baseball is happening 100% this year because far far more serious things than covid-19 happened and the game wasn’t stopped. These restrictions aren’t continuing much longer with people beginning to riot and too much money is at stake. Steroids gave a ton of bad publicity when found out, it takes a really weird person to praise cheating. The damage that steroids gave Baseball far outweigh any positives.

People rioting is precisely why we likely won't have baseball. Those idiots who can't stand to follow rules outlined by health experts are going to cause huge spikes by bucking the guidelines and congregating en masse. This **** is not a joke. It should be felony for these anti-science extremists, whether they be regular old joes or pastors or whoever, to pull this crap.

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I’ve been all about being as cautious as possible especially for those of us in places like New York, New Jersey and Chicago. But the COVID-19 numbers for Arizona are minuscule compared to major markets. Many small markets across the US will be getting reopened in the coming weeks. Arizona has only 100-200 new cases per day and has had 4,000 total cases and the curve is pretty much flattened already. New York has more than that every day. So it’s probably reasonable that states like Arizona reopen soon.  And it’s probably likely that 4 weeks from now Arizona will be in a considerably even better place. By then it’s possible that the baseball players could be safe to play in front of empty stadiums and not even need to be fully sequestered as long as they’re practicing social distancing and washing hands, etc. From the beginning of this I had planned for the worst and continue to be very careful because I live in Chicago. But the numbers show that not every state can be treated the same and Arizona is at far less effected by COVID-19 than most people understand it to be. I believe that this is why we will have baseball at least starting the season in Arizona in about a month. It would make sense to play in AZ for about a month and bring teams back to their home cities (still empty stadiums) a month or two later as their cities become more clear. The players won’t have to be away from their families long - if even at all. My prediction is that baseball resumes mid-May in AZ and that it returns to a “normal” home schedule in July. By the most curves will have been flattened and we’ll have widespread testing and more treatments available. 

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19 minutes ago, TheForearmShiver said:

I’ve been all about being as cautious as possible especially for those of us in places like New York, New Jersey and Chicago. But the COVID-19 numbers for Arizona are minuscule compared to major markets. Many small markets across the US will be getting reopened in the coming weeks. Arizona has only 100-200 new cases per day and has had 4,000 total cases and the curve is pretty much flattened already. New York has more than that every day. So it’s probably reasonable that states like Arizona reopen soon.  And it’s probably likely that 4 weeks from now Arizona will be in a considerably even better place. By then it’s possible that the baseball players could be safe to play in front of empty stadiums and not even need to be fully sequestered as long as they’re practicing social distancing and washing hands, etc. From the beginning of this I had planned for the worst and continue to be very careful because I live in Chicago. But the numbers show that not every state can be treated the same and Arizona is at far less effected by COVID-19 than most people understand it to be. I believe that this is why we will have baseball at least starting the season in Arizona in about a month. It would make sense to play in AZ for about a month and bring teams back to their home cities (still empty stadiums) a month or two later as their cities become more clear. The players won’t have to be away from their families long - if even at all. My prediction is that baseball resumes mid-May in AZ and that it returns to a “normal” home schedule in July. By the most curves will have been flattened and we’ll have widespread testing and more treatments available. 

I hope you are right...Personally, I think the 2nd half could be just as bad if not worse than the original...Hopefully I am wrong!   

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Posted (edited)

In some places, the 2nd half will absolutely be as bad as the first, but a lot of places avoided a bad first wave. The goal as I've always understood it is "flattening the curve"; there's always been a tacit recognition that this would be ongoing for a while. Slow and cautious reopening of businesses and events is and should happen. Most of the country doesn't have the political will or economic ability to stay on a complete shutdown indefinitely. Hopefully states have used the time they've bought wisely to procure supplies and organize healthcare systems to deal with the next wave, which is coming.

Edited by Hanghow

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8 hours ago, TheForearmShiver said:

I’ve been all about being as cautious as possible especially for those of us in places like New York, New Jersey and Chicago. But the COVID-19 numbers for Arizona are minuscule compared to major markets. Many small markets across the US will be getting reopened in the coming weeks. Arizona has only 100-200 new cases per day and has had 4,000 total cases and the curve is pretty much flattened already. New York has more than that every day. So it’s probably reasonable that states like Arizona reopen soon.  And it’s probably likely that 4 weeks from now Arizona will be in a considerably even better place. By then it’s possible that the baseball players could be safe to play in front of empty stadiums and not even need to be fully sequestered as long as they’re practicing social distancing and washing hands, etc. From the beginning of this I had planned for the worst and continue to be very careful because I live in Chicago. But the numbers show that not every state can be treated the same and Arizona is at far less effected by COVID-19 than most people understand it to be. I believe that this is why we will have baseball at least starting the season in Arizona in about a month. It would make sense to play in AZ for about a month and bring teams back to their home cities (still empty stadiums) a month or two later as their cities become more clear. The players won’t have to be away from their families long - if even at all. My prediction is that baseball resumes mid-May in AZ and that it returns to a “normal” home schedule in July. By the most curves will have been flattened and we’ll have widespread testing and more treatments available. 

Sorry but mid-May is an absurd prediction.  Mid-May is only 3-4 weeks from today.

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16 minutes ago, El_Chingon said:

Sorry but mid-May is an absurd prediction.  Mid-May is only 3-4 weeks from today.

Always was an absurd prediction too ;). They may have smart people working on it...

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You guys are insane if you think that there is baseball any time before July, or even at all.

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On 4/16/2020 at 3:35 PM, JE7HorseGod said:

Hard to imagine that the players don't have a lot of leverage in this type of scenario.

The owners want them to play, and there will be a lot of public sympathy for the players risking it, if they do decide they want to.

But I do tend to side with the players in labor disputes, so I'm probably biased.

You also have this aspect to consider: https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/04/21/yankees-fan-mets-fan-team-up-to-sue-mlb-over-coronavirus-canceled-games/amp/

 

Players have plenty of leverage.

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40 minutes ago, Br0kenB said:

You guys are insane if you think that there is baseball any time before July, or even at all.

As I sit here today in the suburbs of Atlanta, the Governor of the state is declaring that tattoo and massage parlors are going to be open here on Friday and restaurants on Monday.  I'd expect a number of other states to follow suit, although some will certainly demonstrate more caution.

Is it the right call?  I don't know.

Is it insane to think that they're going to be playing baseball games in empty stadiums by June or July?  Not from where I'm sitting.

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35 minutes ago, JE7HorseGod said:

As I sit here today in the suburbs of Atlanta, the Governor of the state is declaring that tattoo and massage parlors are going to be open here on Friday and restaurants on Monday.  I'd expect a number of other states to follow suit, although some will certainly demonstrate more caution.

Is it the right call?  I don't know.

Is it insane to think that they're going to be playing baseball games in empty stadiums by June or July?  Not from where I'm sitting.

Opening up this early decreases the odds we see baseball IMO. Best case scenario given the facts would've been to go full lockdown until the curve flattens and then start ramping up activities, like baseball games without fans. What we have now are places opening up before the curve flattens, let alone before these places have even peaked, which will likely lead to the exact same scenario we were in a month ago. 

People who want baseball shouldn't be happy to see things opening up now.

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Just now, Jyeatbvg said:

Opening up this early decreases the odds we see baseball IMO. Best case scenario given the facts would've been to go full lockdown until the curve flattens and then start ramping up activities, like baseball games without fans. What we have now are places opening up before the curve flattens, let alone before these places have even peaked, which will likely lead to the exact same scenario we were in a month ago. 

People who want baseball shouldn't be happy to see things opening up now.

Don't get me wrong, I'm seriously concerned.  Kemp himself admits that this will undoubtedly lead to more cases.

The gamble I think he's making is that it's worth it to prevent further economic fallout, and that what they have in place is enough to mitigate some of the spread.

I think everyone in the state has serious concerns that he is wrong.  Nonetheless it is happening.  And if the gambit proves successful I think you'll see a lot of states following suit soon.

I'm not saying happy or angry, or right or wrong.  Candidly, I'm scared. 

I'm just saying this is what is happening.  My concerns are a lot greater than whether there's a baseball season.  That said, if cases don't go up exponentially in this state over the next couple weeks, it will be difficult for a lot of other governors and business owners to continue holding firm to stay at home orders.

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