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Coronavirus (COVID-19) Baseball Impact

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5 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

The original poster implied that this was proof all the players would return right away if allowed and that wasn't true.  So just trying to fact check.  Being a realist is not crapping on anything.

 

I guess you can imagine that he implied anything.  However he said no such thing.

He posted an article.  I'm glad he did, I thought it was worthwhile. He said it was "evidence" MLB will be back.  

You can make a big deal about how this isn't evidence by legal or scientific standards but I doubt that's what he meant or that he really put all that much thought into it. 

If you think Boras is lying because of his financial stake in the matter, that's fine.  Of course, he'd have to at least believe he could help bring the season about for that to be worthwhile.

If Boras is lying, it's not the poster's fault. I agree with 89Topps, people seem to have invested too much of their self esteem in one outcome or the other. Let's just relax and not take it personally. Whatever happens happens.  

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Most pessimists consider themselves realists, as if the worst possible scenario is always inevitable. The Angels might miss Trout if he decides not to play, but we already know for a fact that other players aren't necessarily following his lead, so I'm not sure why people assume Trout not playing would deter the entire Angels squad from showing up.

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Tick tock 

tick tock....sure would be nice for some folks to step up w a plan if we are gonna see baseball this yr...for example May 20 squads will report to Arizona , Florida , Texas etc..3 week modified spring training...opening day June 20th. 
something...sick of just hearing about ppls thoughts...let’s effing go. 

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35 minutes ago, GamblorLA said:

people seem to have invested too much of their self esteem in one outcome or the other. Let's just relax and not take it personally. Whatever happens happens.  

I suppose it's only natural given that correct prognostication is a big part of the hobby.

But yeah, we just don't know dude.

 

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1 hour ago, TheForearmShiver said:

They would not have to sequester for 4-5 months. Maybe a month. Maybe two months. Maybe not at all by July 4th. Faced with losing tens of millions of dollars many players will be on board that are pushing back right now. Most of these guys are away from their families for long stretches anyway. I’m pretty sure most players don’t bring their families around the country during the season and many don’t have their families living in their home cities. By the time baseball were to start in June or July, Arizona will likely be very safe from COVID-19. And if for some reason it’s not, they won’t start baseball.
 

As it stands, there are currently 150-300 new cases per day in the entire state of Arizona. It’s hardly even a pandemic situation there now. Looking at all the curves around the world that have flattened out, it’s a fair assumption that AZ will follow the same trend and be safe by then. Look at the actual numbers. Unless baseball brings a COVID-19 pandemic there, it’s likely to be safe in 6-8 weeks and a pre-quarantine and testing of the players starting a month from now would help prevent that. 

If Arizona were widely testing those numbers might mean something. 47th in per capita testing. Another proposed site for game is Texas at 49th. 

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https://theturfsports.com/fielders-choice/the-other-thing-corona-has-killed/

I was watching Ken Burns Baseball last night and the Keith Olbermann interview mentioned in this article really struck me as being kind of apropos right now.  I couldn't find video of it, but found this article, which is a nice little read.  I'm not familiar with this blog or the author, but he sums up how I'm feeling right now.

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46 minutes ago, 89Topps said:

https://theturfsports.com/fielders-choice/the-other-thing-corona-has-killed/

I was watching Ken Burns Baseball last night and the Keith Olbermann interview mentioned in this article really struck me as being kind of apropos right now.  I couldn't find video of it, but found this article, which is a nice little read.  I'm not familiar with this blog or the author, but he sums up how I'm feeling right now.

Great post. That Olbermann story from The Tenth Inning always stuck with me, too. It's almost May...hopefully something can be formulated to give us some version of baseball this year. It's weird how it already feels like time is running out.

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10 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

The original poster implied that this was proof all the players would return right away if allowed and that wasn't true.  So just trying to fact check.  Being a realist is not crapping on anything.

 

I know.  It's just gotten tiresome.  Anytime anyone posts an article about the possibility of baseball returning, there's a flood of posts about how far fetched and unrealistic and ridiculous it is.

I feel like I just need some positive news without the ensuing tidal wave of negative reaction.

Maybe I just need a break from these threads.

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31 minutes ago, 89Topps said:

 

I know.  It's just gotten tiresome.  Anytime anyone posts an article about the possibility of baseball returning, there's a flood of posts about how far fetched and unrealistic and ridiculous it is.

I feel like I just need some positive news without the ensuing tidal wave of negative reaction.

Maybe I just need a break from these threads.

Yup, i am relatively new on this forum.. and i noticed it immediately.. everyone lives in this negative bubble no matter how 'realistic' they feel it is.. i have noticed i have been checking these forums less and less as the days have gone on.. partly because i have not come across anything new.. but also because i know what to expect when reading the posts. Nothing but mind draining demoralizing negativity. Sad world.

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10 minutes ago, jonninho said:

Yup, i am relatively new on this forum.. and i noticed it immediately.. everyone lives in this negative bubble no matter how 'realistic' they feel it is.. i have noticed i have been checking these forums less and less as the days have gone on.. partly because i have not come across anything new.. but also because i know what to expect when reading the posts. Nothing but mind draining demoralizing negativity. Sad world.

 

44 minutes ago, 89Topps said:

 

I know.  It's just gotten tiresome.  Anytime anyone posts an article about the possibility of baseball returning, there's a flood of posts about how far fetched and unrealistic and ridiculous it is.

I feel like I just need some positive news without the ensuing tidal wave of negative reaction.

Maybe I just need a break from these threads.

There is never ever going to be baseball again per the 'Rona

 

Just kidding....give them hi-tech breathable masks ( like a switch that opens to allows more air when running ) and play ball!

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On 4/23/2020 at 1:25 AM, The Big Bat Theory said:

Boras has ulterior motives, period.  It is all about greed with that guy.  And it has been way more players than just Mike Trout saying what Trout was saying.  Did you not read that article with over a dozen expressing fear and hesitation or the statements by Price and Kershaw.

I’ve got a question for the resident Rotoworld Realist:

Who DOESN’T have ulterior motives? Do players/union not have ulterior motives? Why would you be so quick to dismiss one person, yet blindly believe the others, when the truth is they all have their self-interests (and not just health) in mind?

I’ll hang up and listen...

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49 minutes ago, 89Topps said:

 

I know.  It's just gotten tiresome.  Anytime anyone posts an article about the possibility of baseball returning, there's a flood of posts about how far fetched and unrealistic and ridiculous it is.

I feel like I just need some positive news without the ensuing tidal wave of negative reaction.

Maybe I just need a break from these threads.

Gonna get a little armchair shrink-y for a minute...

I think that in times with so much uncertainty, some people find a degree of comfort in the idea that they can make a prediction and that prediction turns out to be accurate, and I think that sometimes any of us can be susceptible to the idea of first voicing an opinion, and then doing lots of research to what supports that opinion and ignoring or trying to discredit what doesn't in order to maintain that sense of control.

I agree with you though, we could all use some good news, and I feel like we've been inundated from all corners by the bad.  So it definitely wears on me a bit.

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2 hours ago, Backdoor Slider said:

I’ve got a question for the resident Rotoworld Realist:

Who DOESN’T have ulterior motives? Do players/union not have ulterior motives? Why would you be so quick to dismiss one person, yet blindly believe the others, when the truth is they all have their self-interests (and not just health) in mind?

I’ll hang up and listen...

Boras is notorious.  Over the top notorious about being all about money 24/7 in a period where selflessness and sacrifice are key to us getting through this virus.  You do NOT "believe" anyone.  You look for facts.  Period. 

And if others here find facts depressing I am sorry.  I actually find truth far more comforting than flights of fancy.  Truth will set you free. 

Believing for example that the official baseball season would say begin in May when of course it won't can lead to depression in these believers.  People that "believe" something will happen when the facts and logic lead to the opposite conclusion just set themselves up for endless disappointment.  But instead of realizing their pattern of impossible goals then sadness when those goals are not met some tend instead to go and blame people just looking at the facts.

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3 hours ago, JE7HorseGod said:

Gonna get a little armchair shrink-y for a minute...

I think that in times with so much uncertainty, some people find a degree of comfort in the idea that they can make a prediction and that prediction turns out to be accurate, and I think that sometimes any of us can be susceptible to the idea of first voicing an opinion, and then doing lots of research to what supports that opinion and ignoring or trying to discredit what doesn't in order to maintain that sense of control.

I agree with you though, we could all use some good news, and I feel like we've been inundated from all corners by the bad.  So it definitely wears on me a bit.

 

This is third hand: a poker pro tweeting about a pod he listened to, lol.

But the idea was this.  When we hear something that supports our existing opinion, we ask "may I believe this?" When we hear something that contradicts our existing opinion we ask, "must I believe this?"

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Boras is notorious.  Over the top notorious about being all about money 24/7 in a period where selflessness and sacrifice are key to us getting through this virus.  You do NOT "believe" anyone.  You look for facts.  Period. 

And if others here find facts depressing I am sorry.  I actually find truth far more comforting than flights of fancy.  Truth will set you free. 

Believing for example that the official baseball season would say begin in May when of course it won't can lead to depression in these believers.  People that "believe" something will happen when the facts and logic lead to the opposite conclusion just set themselves up for endless disappointment.  But instead of realizing their pattern of impossible goals then sadness when those goals are not met some tend instead to go and blame people just looking at the facts.


There’s nothing wrong with what you’re saying. However, using what you believe are facts versus others citing what is coming out of the mouths of owners, the commissioner and agents leave a lot of minutiae. There are many of us that are hopeful and optimistic and looking for glimmers of hope and every time we post something to indicate there may be hope the fun police faction like to come here and try to crap all over it. 
 

Can we just start a separate thread for those who are trying to collaborate on articles, potential solutions and discussions for how to get baseball going in 2020? Because as it stands, the two existing threads are the opposite of that. Having one place for these two polarized opinions is not working. 

 

I’m already waiting for some to reply to this comment to tell me there’s no point to have a thread about returning baseball in 2020 because...no baseball can happen because testing and players and whatever. It’s like trying to have a peaceful thread where AOC enthusiasts and Trump supporters can constructively talk about abortion.  

Edited by TheForearmShiver

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8 minutes ago, TheForearmShiver said:

Can we just start a separate thread for those who are trying to collaborate on articles, potential solutions and discussions for how to get baseball going in 2020? Because as it stands, the two existing threads are the opposite of that. Having one place for these two polarized opinions is not working. 

 

There's a reason we don't have separate "Blake Snell 2020 Positive Outlook" and "Blake Snell 2020 Negative Outlook" threads, and it's not because we don't want people to be civil -- it's because no productive discussion comes from people who already agree discussing how much they agree.

If y'all can't remain civil while discussing this, the solution isn't going to be more COVID threads, it's going to be no COVID threads at all, and everyone involved takes their COVID talk elsewhere.  Outside of things that violate the CoC and posting guidelines, we cannot and will not police which category of opinions are allowed in these threads any more than we'll tell people they can't have a positive or negative outlook on a player.

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2 minutes ago, tonycpsu said:

 

There's a reason we don't have separate "Blake Snell 2020 Positive Outlook" and "Blake Snell 2020 Negative Outlook" threads, and it's not because we don't want people to be civil -- it's because no productive discussion comes from people who already agree discussing how much they agree.

If y'all can't remain civil while discussing this, the solution isn't going to be more COVID threads, it's going to be no COVID threads at all, and everyone involved takes their COVID talk elsewhere.  Outside of things that violate the CoC and posting guidelines, we cannot and will not police which category of opinions are allowed in these threads any more than we'll tell people they can't have a positive or negative outlook on a player.

Fair enough. This thread, as mentioned earlier has been completely overtaken by the negative “no baseball” people so the result is that it has completely turned off those who have the other outlook. It’s a feeding frenzy for a handful of posters who’ve made it their job to try and shoot down posts that don’t agree with their “facts”. If it’s so binary that there can’t be baseball, those people should be the ones to, in good faith to their principals, step away until next year when baseball should be allowed to come back. I don’t know how it can feel good to stick around to keep making the same argument unless it’s to the earlier point that people want their predictions to be right so they can’t listen to new information and evolve their opinions. If that’s cool with you then it’s your world. I’ve seen enough and will join those who choose to no longer participate out of apprehension of feeding the “no baseball” piranhas jumping all over it because only their opinion has any merit. 

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1 hour ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Boras is notorious.  Over the top notorious about being all about money 24/7 in a period where selflessness and sacrifice are key to us getting through this virus.  You do NOT "believe" anyone.  You look for facts.  Period. 

And if others here find facts depressing I am sorry.  I actually find truth far more comforting than flights of fancy.  Truth will set you free. 

Believing for example that the official baseball season would say begin in May when of course it won't can lead to depression in these believers.  People that "believe" something will happen when the facts and logic lead to the opposite conclusion just set themselves up for endless disappointment.  But instead of realizing their pattern of impossible goals then sadness when those goals are not met some tend instead to go and blame people just looking at the facts.

Which facts did you bring? That there’s going to be no baseball this year? That by the end of May we won’t be getting ramped up for baseball? Is that fact? Or opinion? The first step here is you realizing that you, in fact, are not speaking facts. It’s your opinion that you’re convinced you are correct about.

If you’ve got facts, I’d love to hear them. Drop the links here. 👇🏼 But you have a habit of talking in circles with long-winded paragraphs about how you’re about logic and reason and everyone else is believing in unicorns and rainbows. Yet, ironically enough, no links. No facts. 

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13 minutes ago, Backdoor Slider said:

Which facts did you bring? That there’s going to be no baseball this year? That by the end of May we won’t be getting ramped up for baseball? Is that fact? Or opinion? The first step here is you realizing that you, in fact, are not speaking facts. It’s your opinion that you’re convinced you are correct about.

If you’ve got facts, I’d love to hear them. Drop the links here. 👇🏼 But you have a habit of talking in circles with long-winded paragraphs about how you’re about logic and reason and everyone else is believing in unicorns and rainbows. Yet, ironically enough, no links. No facts. 

How about the fact that two of the states that are supposedly going to be open for May ramping up are ranked 47th and 49th in per capita testing in the US. 

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34 minutes ago, TheForearmShiver said:

This thread, as mentioned earlier has been completely overtaken by the negative “no baseball” people so the result is that it has completely turned off those who have the other outlook. It’s a feeding frenzy for a handful of posters who’ve made it their job to try and shoot down posts that don’t agree with their “facts”.

 

I'm not sure what your parameters are here, but I wanted to give your argument a fair hearing, so I went back several pages in this thread, containing the last 3-4 days of comments.  By my count, I got:

23 saying there will be baseball, or they're optimistic there will be baseball

19 saying there won't be baseball, or they're pessimistic that there will be baseball

39 neutral -- not taking a strong stance one way or another

You might read the comments differently than I did, and that's fine, but I feel like there's this thing that happens in online discussions when someone identifies someone as having view X or being a member of tribe Y, it's easy to fall into the trap of reading everything they say through that lens.  I'm probably guilty of it myself, so I've made every effort to just read the content and decide if the person is expressing optimism, pessimism, or neither in the posts.

Now, maybe you're measuring differently -- seeing more unique individuals being pessimistic, or more comments from a handful of individuals you've identified as pessimistic -- but I see no merit to your claim that the discussion has been "taken over" by Team Probably Not.

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31 minutes ago, daynlokki said:

How about the fact that two of the states that are supposedly going to be open for May ramping up are ranked 47th and 49th in per capita testing in the US. 

Thanks for random facts. 
 

Let’s try this:

Statement: “There will be NO baseball in May.”

Is this fact?  
 

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1 hour ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Boras is notorious.  Over the top notorious about being all about money 24/7 in a period where selflessness and sacrifice are key to us getting through this virus.  You do NOT "believe" anyone.  You look for facts.  Period. 

And if others here find facts depressing I am sorry.  I actually find truth far more comforting than flights of fancy.  Truth will set you free. 

Believing for example that the official baseball season would say begin in May when of course it won't can lead to depression in these believers.  People that "believe" something will happen when the facts and logic lead to the opposite conclusion just set themselves up for endless disappointment.  But instead of realizing their pattern of impossible goals then sadness when those goals are not met some tend instead to go and blame people just looking at the facts.

 

Again, assuming Boras is a psychopath, it would still be pointless to lie if he thought a season was impossible.  It also would not be in his interests for a client to die or lose a bunch of their lung capacity, particularly if he had promoted them playing unsafely.  Or to lie about what his players have told him.  And hey, MAYBE he isn't pure evil. Is it possible? 

What you describe is really a model of negative/depressive thinking, which I know all too well.  Depressives actually DO have a lower sense of denial than normies.  Like, a lot of people believe they will be rich one day for no particular reason.  Not depressives. This is more realistic on their part.  However, this bolsters cognitive errors because you think your unfounded conclusions (I'm a loser who will never amount to anything) are bolstered by "facts and logic."   

I'm not diagnosing you with clinical depression over FBB message board, but what you've been saying is a pattern of negative thought seen in the cognitive errors that drive things like depression.  It's a FACT that they are playing baseball in Taiwan. Right now.  It really looks like Korea is to follow.  Clearly, suggesting that playing baseball is some far flung fantasy is contradicted by the fact that people are currently doing it.

The U.S. has not done as well as those countries, but perhaps some particular areas have done well or are inherently much less vulnerable.  Maybe our poorer handling of the disease means it will take us twice as long to get to baseball, but we'll still get there.  Maybe we won't.  Maybe the virus will keep recurring and mutating until all humans are dead.  I don't know, you don't know. 

But it is not "factual" or "logical" to conclude that a season is impossible and that anybody who is spitballing about how to make it happen is delusional and everyone should just lay down and quit 2 months ahead of time rather than prepare for good scenarios.  Or to jump all over someone posting an credible, mainstream article in which a prominent baseball figure is interviewed because it doesn't support your conclusions.  

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1 hour ago, Backdoor Slider said:

Thanks for random facts. 
 

Let’s try this:

Statement: “There will be NO baseball in May.”

Is this fact?  
 

Yes those facts are random lmao. That’s two of the states they are planning on using to reopen the season. Arizona and Texas. Hard to open up for a season and tell your players it’s fine and they will be tested all the time when two of the states aren’t testing anyone. Both under 10,000 tests per 1m of population. That’s a big deal for the chances of a season happening. Nobody can definitively say what is or is not going to happen. What we can say is our opinion on the chances of one of those happen and back those opinions up with facts. I haven’t seen many from you. 

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1 hour ago, GamblorLA said:

 

Again, assuming Boras is a psychopath, it would still be pointless to lie if he thought a season was impossible.  It also would not be in his interests for a client to die or lose a bunch of their lung capacity, particularly if he had promoted them playing unsafely.  Or to lie about what his players have told him.  And hey, MAYBE he isn't pure evil. Is it possible? 

What you describe is really a model of negative/depressive thinking, which I know all too well.  Depressives actually DO have a lower sense of denial than normies.  Like, a lot of people believe they will be rich one day for no particular reason.  Not depressives. This is more realistic on their part.  However, this bolsters cognitive errors because you think your unfounded conclusions (I'm a loser who will never amount to anything) are bolstered by "facts and logic."   

I'm not diagnosing you with clinical depression over FBB message board, but what you've been saying is a pattern of negative thought seen in the cognitive errors that drive things like depression.  It's a FACT that they are playing baseball in Taiwan. Right now.  It really looks like Korea is to follow.  Clearly, suggesting that playing baseball is some far flung fantasy is contradicted by the fact that people are currently doing it.

The U.S. has not done as well as those countries, but perhaps some particular areas have done well or are inherently much less vulnerable.  Maybe our poorer handling of the disease means it will take us twice as long to get to baseball, but we'll still get there.  Maybe we won't.  Maybe the virus will keep recurring and mutating until all humans are dead.  I don't know, you don't know. 

But it is not "factual" or "logical" to conclude that a season is impossible and that anybody who is spitballing about how to make it happen is delusional and everyone should just lay down and quit 2 months ahead of time rather than prepare for good scenarios.  Or to jump all over someone posting an credible, mainstream article in which a prominent baseball figure is interviewed because it doesn't support your conclusions.  

He is a prominent baseball figure. He also doesn’t make any money if his players aren’t actually playing. Bringing up his motives behind what he said is kind of a big deal. If he didn’t personally rely heavily specifically on the sport of baseball playing I could see listening to him more, but anyone with that much money to lose if baseball isn’t played gets knocked down a few notches unless he has other people backing him up outside of the league. 
 

Yes, baseball is happening in Taiwan and possibly could happen again in Korea too, but comparing those countries to the US is like comparing cases in North Dakota with New York and thinking something being open in ND would have a shot in NY. We aren’t handling this well. Their proposed sites aren’t testing anywhere near to the level they would need to be in order to open up. If you were a player, would you trust states testing at 47th and 49th per capita in the US to protect you? How many regular people who aren’t being tested by the league in that scenario will be around players? Without the states they are proposing greatly improving test numbers it’s extremely hard to envision a league here this season. 

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4 hours ago, GamblorLA said:

I'm not diagnosing you with clinical depression over FBB message board

Real big of you, doctor.  Hah.  Seriously how do you find something clinically "wrong" with a person that disagrees with you?  But go ahead and attack me personally if you want.

4 hours ago, Backdoor Slider said:

Thanks for random facts. 
 

Let’s try this:

Statement: “There will be NO baseball in May.”

Is this fact? 

Why are you misquoting me yet again.  I said: "Believing for example that the official baseball season would say begin in May ...".  Do you not get the difference between the "official baseball season" and "NO baseball?" 

And with NO concrete "plans" even announced as in "we are going forward with the plan to do etc etc" let alone starting the physical and social and political and medical negotiations and superstructure with the economics of various rentals and a full blown and staffed medical support systems in place THEN needing at least three weeks minimum for a new spring training how would it be in the realm of any possibility to start an official season in May even if a season was announced tomorrow?  Also federal recommendations are for Arizona to be in the last tier of states to open along with NY, California etc.

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