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Coronavirus (COVID-19) Baseball Impact

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, daynlokki said:

You doubt that any players who play in Toronto live in Canada? That seems a bit of a stretch. Arizona has tested a combined 64,811 people. That just puts them 49th in the US for per capita testing. You assuming they are gonna be able to handle about 10k tests a week with all the players and personnel when they have only been able to handle about 4K a week as a whole? Can’t get a positive test if you refuse to test anyone. The US as a whole is getting close to 1 case per every 300 in population. Seems like sports should take a back burner. Many athletes feel the same. 
 

You saying the MLB is predominantly American born athletes? Please cite your source for the fact the NHL has twice as many foreign born players or players that live outside the US. I’d love to see that. 
 

You can’t just triple for lack of testing if you aren’t testing the infection rate could be 100x higher and you wouldn’t know. Which is why we need more testing. 

Come on, man. He's absolutely right; US-born athletes account for 25% of the NHL and 75% of MLB, roughly. I'm not sure why that's so hard to believe; anybody with any familiarity with the two sports is well aware of it.

https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-rosters-feature-251-international-players

Edited by Hanghow
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12 minutes ago, TheForearmShiver said:

It took me 5 seconds to Google each sports foreign born players. I was also speaking in terms of percentages. It’s probably moot since my other five second google search told me the NHL is intensifying efforts to reopen. 
 

You can continue to talk about why you think baseball should not return, but there are myriad arguments such as low risk people being able to continue to do their jobs to reopen the economy and build herd immunity while protecting those most at risk. If cities will be repopulating their business offices in the coming months in major cities, with public restrooms, elevators and shared spaces, how is baseball not able to do so in a controlled environment with exceptionally more control, monitoring and oversight? 

If it took you five seconds then why can you not post this anonymous source? NHL is that is correct. They have also directly said if the US-Canada border is closed they won’t even have a chance to. 
You keep bringing up those most at risk. 1/6th of the US is in the age range where most of the deaths occur, around 50% of the country is considered overweight which is another group that would need to be protected, not even gonna tally those with diabetes type 1 and 2 or those with asthma which are also at risk. Herd immunity is nice and all but for that to happen about 290m Americans would need to be infected. Even then, herd immunity only lasts as long as immunity does and for most coronaviruses that’s one to two years. 

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9 minutes ago, Hanghow said:

Come on, man. He's absolutely right; US-born athletes account for 25% of the NHL and 75% of MLB, roughly. I'm not sure why that's so hard to believe; anybody with any familiarity with the two sports is well aware of it.

https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-rosters-feature-251-international-players

So if the US border isn’t open then there is a possibility 28% of MLB rostered players wouldn’t be able to get in the country? Seems like maybe you should discuss baseball after you can make sure all your players can even play. Why would you jump eight steps ahead when that first step can completely shut down any idea you had?

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2 minutes ago, daynlokki said:

So if the US border isn’t open then there is a possibility 28% of MLB rostered players wouldn’t be able to get in the country? Seems like maybe you should discuss baseball after you can make sure all your players can even play. Why would you jump eight steps ahead when that first step can completely shut down any idea you had?

I’m not organizing the return of baseball. I’m thinking those steps are in consideration by those who are. I also said that travel exemptions would likely be made for players to re-enter the US. 

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1 minute ago, TheForearmShiver said:

I’m not organizing the return of baseball. I’m thinking those steps are in consideration by those who are. I also said that travel exemptions would likely be made for players to re-enter the US. 

Doubt it. Borders are closed for all non essential travel. Doubt they would consider MLB players essential travel let alone put through the visas that would be needed to get back in the US and play legally. 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, daynlokki said:

Doubt it. Borders are closed for all non essential travel. Doubt they would consider MLB players essential travel let alone put through the visas that would be needed to get back in the US and play legally. 

Why is that so hard to envision? Florida already did it for baseball more than a week ago. Who’s to say Arizona wouldn’t in the next month?  You seem to be combining what “should” happen and what “could” or “can” happen into your points. 

Edited by TheForearmShiver

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How about we worry about the first steps. Ownership and players are miles apart on compensation if the league were to resume this year. Without that, there won’t be a season anyways 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, TheForearmShiver said:

Why is that so hard to envision? Florida already did it for baseball more than a week ago. Who’s to say Arizona wouldn’t in the next month?

It’s not based on individual states. Essential travel is not the same as essential jobs. While they do count a job in the US as essential travel that’s a job you must commute to everyday. Not one in which you would live in the US five consecutive months. Visas are also a major issue at this time. If I remember right routine visas are all suspended at this time. 

Edited by daynlokki
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18 minutes ago, daynlokki said:

If it took you five seconds then why can you not post this anonymous source? NHL is that is correct. They have also directly said if the US-Canada border is closed they won’t even have a chance to. 
You keep bringing up those most at risk. 1/6th of the US is in the age range where most of the deaths occur, around 50% of the country is considered overweight which is another group that would need to be protected, not even gonna tally those with diabetes type 1 and 2 or those with asthma which are also at risk. Herd immunity is nice and all but for that to happen about 290m Americans would need to be infected. Even then, herd immunity only lasts as long as immunity does and for most coronaviruses that’s one to two years. 

It would take less time if you just googled it like I did. 


You’re making my point for me. If America is going to put obese people back to work in uncontrollable environment, why wouldn’t baseball put theirs back to work in a controlled environment?  
 

I’m not the one planning on putting America back to work. It’s not my plan. I’m just saying if that’s the plan for the US, why should baseball have to remain out of the picture in a much more controlled environment???  How many baseball players are obese?

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Just now, TheForearmShiver said:

It would take less time if you just googled it like I did. 


You’re making my point for me. If America is going to put obese people back to work in uncontrollable environment, why wouldn’t baseball put theirs back to work in a controlled environment?  
 

I’m not the one planning on putting America back to work. It’s not my plan. I’m just saying if that’s the plan for the US, why should baseball have to remain out of the picture in a much more controlled environment???  How many baseball players are obese?

That’s NOT the plan for the US. That’s the plan for individual states who are going against what experts are saying. Even TRUMP has rebuked the Georgia governor about it. The US as a whole is saying not to reopen until the numbers of infected have declined for 14 consecutive days with expanded testing. That hasn’t occurred and until it does, it’s irresponsible to expect baseball to open and stay open. What is the MLB going to do if ONE person gets a confirmed case of covid. Even worse, what if he dies? 

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Posted (edited)

Just because some governors are willing to risk the lives of their constituents because they fear the economical dangers more doesn’t mean that’s the best idea. Most of Germany would tell you that just blindly following your leaders could potentially put your country in a bad place. 
Also it’s not just obese, it’s overweight. Either way there are plenty that fit both criteria’s. Vlad Jr would be obese last year. 

Edited by daynlokki
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16 minutes ago, daynlokki said:

How about we worry about the first steps. Ownership and players are miles apart on compensation if the league were to resume this year. Without that, there won’t be a season anyways 

Like you've said, the first steps are mitigating, best we can, the overflow of hospital resources and public health concerns.

Some states feel like they are there, we'll see if they are right or not.

Then I would say it's up to the MLBPA to have a vote to see if they feel comfortable taking the risk of playing.  Some sound like they are.  Some definitely don't, especially for the Arizona plan.  May be a "majority rules" kind of thing - and even if it's a "yay" vote some individual players may still opt to sit out.  I don't think anyone can blame anyone for their choice either way there.

Then we can iron out the contractual stuff.  Aside from Wilpon (who is on the outs anyway) I haven't heard any individual ownership commentary about clawback.  That may or may not be much of a hurdle.

Lot of hurdles, definitely.  But progression is happening in states now, for better or worse.  Restaurants are open here in GA today.  Texas and South Carolina are opening up in degrees as well.  Things are happening.  Will it lead to a second wave worse than the first?  I hope not.  But that would certainly shut down baseball season talks.  If it doesn't, I would expect a forthcoming plan in May for a season of sorts.

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2 minutes ago, JE7HorseGod said:

Like you've said, the first steps are mitigating, best we can, the overflow of hospital resources and public health concerns.

Some states feel like they are there, we'll see if they are right or not.

Then I would say it's up to the MLBPA to have a vote to see if they feel comfortable taking the risk of playing.  Some sound like they are.  Some definitely don't, especially for the Arizona plan.  May be a "majority rules" kind of thing - and even if it's a "yay" vote some individual players may still opt to sit out.  I don't think anyone can blame anyone for their choice either way there.

Then we can iron out the contractual stuff.  Aside from Wilpon (who is on the outs anyway) I haven't heard any individual ownership commentary about clawback.  That may or may not be much of a hurdle.

Lot of hurdles, definitely.  But progression is happening in states now, for better or worse.  Restaurants are open here in GA today.  Texas and South Carolina are opening up in degrees as well.  Things are happening.  Will it lead to a second wave worse than the first?  I hope not.  But that would certainly shut down baseball season talks.  If it doesn't, I would expect a forthcoming plan in May for a season of sorts.

Espn was reporting about it all day and saying things about how people don’t think the owners and players will get together. Seems like the players won’t put themselves at risk unless they get the prorated portion of their contract. Owners want to pay about half that. May is gonna be way too early. Visas are suspended from being given out currently, the US border is shutdown until at LEAST mid May and that’s both ways. US and Canada would both need to open. As well as US and Mexico, DR, Japan, China. You see where this is going. Until that happens the chances of the league starting are near 0 unless the teams are planning on playing only with players with US citizenship. 

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Just now, daynlokki said:

Espn was reporting about it all day and saying things about how people don’t think the owners and players will get together. Seems like the players won’t put themselves at risk unless they get the prorated portion of their contract. Owners want to pay about half that. May is gonna be way too early. Visas are suspended from being given out currently, the US border is shutdown until at LEAST mid May and that’s both ways. US and Canada would both need to open. As well as US and Mexico, DR, Japan, China. You see where this is going. Until that happens the chances of the league starting are near 0 unless the teams are planning on playing only with players with US citizenship. 

I'd say that's pretty typical of negotiations, both sides have to present the idea that they can "walk away" to get what they want, especially to the press when it's a potential public labor dispute.  Maybe it falls apart, but I'd take any reports externally there with a grain of salt.

As for the work visa issue, the biggest driving force behind that sentiment has also publicly said he wants there to be sports.  So I could see that being conditionally resolved pretty easily.

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[ Posts removed.  If your comments aren't directly relevant to discussing the return of baseball, and fall more in the category of general arguing about COVID, they need to go in the other thread. ]

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1 minute ago, JE7HorseGod said:

I'd say that's pretty typical of negotiations, both sides have to present the idea that they can "walk away" to get what they want, especially to the press when it's a potential public labor dispute.  Maybe it falls apart, but I'd take any reports externally there with a grain of salt.

As for the work visa issue, the biggest driving force behind that sentiment has also publicly said he wants there to be sports.  So I could see that being conditionally resolved pretty easily.

It would have to be opened back up universally. 

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Just now, daynlokki said:

It would have to be opened back up universally. 

Not necessarily.

Work visas are a whole alphabet soup of different categories.  At the behest of POTUS UCSIS could create a new letter/category and allow those to have exemption with a stroke of an executive order like he did when he restricted K1s.

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4 minutes ago, JE7HorseGod said:

Not necessarily.

Work visas are a whole alphabet soup of different categories.  At the behest of POTUS UCSIS could create a new letter/category and allow those to have exemption with a stroke of an executive order like he did when he restricted K1s.

And as soon as he does he will be screamed at for treating rich athletes as more important than the working man. Why should rich athletes be able to get a visa during a freeze if regular people can’t get one to work right now?

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Just now, daynlokki said:

And as soon as he does he will be screamed at for treating rich athletes as more important than the working man. Why should rich athletes be able to get a visa during a freeze if regular people can’t get one to work right now?

Applying that kind of moral argument to this situation hasn't appeared to be germaine to his concerns.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, JE7HorseGod said:

Applying that kind of moral argument to this situation hasn't appeared to be germaine to his concerns.

Trump will bend over backwards to not alienate his base. Which is predominantly blue collar workers. If he blocks visas to all but the rich (athletes) he will guarantee himself a loss in the election from the lack of minority votes. He cares more about winning the election then lessening deaths. 

Edited by daynlokki

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Just now, daynlokki said:

Trump will bend over backwards to not alienate his base. Which is predominantly blue collar workers. If he blocks visas to all but the rich (athletes) he will guarantee himself a loss in the election from the lack of minority votes. 

I would suspect that a majority of those blue collar folks are more into the idea of having baseball games to watch than being concerned about whether software engineers who hail from another country are able to get their's in reciprocity.  I could be wrong though.

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20 minutes ago, daynlokki said:

And as soon as he does he will be screamed at for treating rich athletes as more important than the working man. Why should rich athletes be able to get a visa during a freeze if regular people can’t get one to work right now?

As if Trump cares about what the masses think of how he treats millionaires differently.  That’s like, his thing. 

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1 minute ago, TheForearmShiver said:

As if Trump cares about what the masses think of how he treats millionaires differently.  That’s like, his thing. 

It's a bad look to take people from 20 different countries and slam them all together with aging managers and just hope not one person comes down with a virus that currently has infected at LEAST 1 out of every 330 Americans.

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Just now, daynlokki said:

 and just hope not one person comes down with a virus that currently has infected at LEAST 1 out of every 330 Americans.

That's kind of what we have to do now once stay at home orders roll back until a vaccine is mass produced.

Some people are going to want to stay home.  I totally respect and understand that.

Some people are going to want to go to work.  I totally respect and understand that.

Regardless, we're all going to have to operate on washing our hands, covering our mouths when we cough, trying to keep our distance when we can, and hope.  And it would help if we all respected each others individual decisions, even if we disagree with them for our own lives, and protect ourselves best we can.  Baseball players have that same decision too.

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Just now, JE7HorseGod said:

That's kind of what we have to do now once stay at home orders roll back until a vaccine is mass produced.

Some people are going to want to stay home.  I totally respect and understand that.

Some people are going to want to go to work.  I totally respect and understand that.

Regardless, we're all going to have to operate on washing our hands, covering our mouths when we cough, trying to keep our distance when we can, and hope.  And it would help if we all respected each others individual decisions, even if we disagree with them for our own lives, and protect ourselves best we can.  Baseball players have that same decision too.

Hard to wash your hands while playing baseball. Let alone keeping a safe distance. 

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