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Coronavirus (COVID-19) Baseball Impact

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50 minutes ago, Weekday Warrior said:

It is the MLBPA’s turn to counter offer right?  Owners said okay you can have full prorated pay at a grossly reduced schedule, what is their counter? Why is this moving so slow? Nobody is fooling anyone with posturing, just take it to a mediation!

Technically the MLBPA made the last offer. It was rejected and MLB chose not to counter:

the league has formally rejected the union’s proposal for a 114-game season with prorated salaries, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic tweets. Moreover, the league has no plans to even extend a counter-proposal. 
 

The 50 game or 48 game season was never a formal offer. It was just something intentionally leaked to the media to serve a purpose. If the owners truly just want a short season like that then they’re likely going to try to wait the players out to get them to cave in to their demands. I hate how both sides are acting, but my hatred for the owners has taken a pretty sizable lead.

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2 hours ago, duke of queens said:

Manfred needs to step in here and do his job. Set a deadline for a deal and stand by it.

Man - I'm not sure I agree more w/a single effing post in this entire thread. Yeah I'm a commish.

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Baseball is not above all that is going on in the country. It's really sad that they aren't willing to work together.

Meanwhile, many fans are moving away from Baseball, which was already in a decline state as it was.

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9 hours ago, B_M_Inc said:

Meanwhile, many fans are moving away from Baseball, which was already in a decline state as it was.

Decline? Fans are leaving? Explain how the heck in the last two years owners sign Bryce Harper, Gerrit Cole, Manny Machado, Anthony Rendon & Stephen Strasburg to massive contracts 

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10 hours ago, B_M_Inc said:

Baseball is not above all that is going on in the country. It's really sad that they aren't willing to work together.

Meanwhile, many fans are moving away from Baseball, which was already in a decline state as it was.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/29/sports/baseball/mlb-attendance.html

Without getting too off topic, and only because I think it is somewhat relatable to the COVID impact.. Here is an interesting article that talks about the truth behind the decline in butts-in-seats over the past couple years, and how the actual numbers don't necessarily mean the games attendance is really hurting.

 

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12 minutes ago, The 7th Beatles said:

 

Fingers crossed.

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Yea they play more, but get paid almost the same. This is awful. 

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, The 7th Beatles said:

 


Players association already on record saying this is even more of a step backwards 

fellas....this is horrible.

Edited by Whitecloud0101
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If the sliding scale is deleted from the new offer it sounds basically the same as 50 games at full prorated pay but with a little extra sugar on top

Still don’t understand why so much time has to pass between these offers and counteroffers....

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2 hours ago, shakestreet said:

Decline? Fans are leaving? Explain how the heck in the last two years owners sign Bryce Harper, Gerrit Cole, Manny Machado, Anthony Rendon & Stephen Strasburg to massive contracts 

It only takes a few dumb owners, to bid against themselves.

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Anecdotally, amongst all my friends (mid-20s); very few actually watch and follow baseball. The perception that baseball is boring and an old mans game is real.

This saga is just alienating the younger fan base even more. 

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2 hours ago, The 7th Beatles said:

 

All these mental gymnastics... why don't they just say what is painfully obvious,  this is essentially the same net pay as any other offer? Just worded in yet a new way.  

It's been pretty obv for awhile net take home is basically the issue.  Instead we get more spin.  I don't think we get ball this year now.  

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Here are the longer Rotoworld blurbs about same.  First the new offer:

Quote

ESPN's Karl Ravech reports that MLB has sent a new proposal to players which includes 75-percent prorated salary as part of a 76-game season.

The regular season would end on September 27 and the postseason would conclude at the end of October. There would be playoff pool money and draft pick compensation wouldn't be attached to free agency this offseason. Ravech hears from sources that this new proposal would work out to more than $200 million more in player salaries. It sounds good on the surface, but the guaranteed percentage breakdown ultimately isn't much different from previous offers. Players could be faced with playing 48 games with full prorated pay or 76 games essentially being paid as if they played 57 games. There's more work to be done here to make baseball possible in 2020. For what it's worth, Bob Nightengale of USA Today hears from the MLBPA that this latest offer is considered a "step backwards." They have held firm on getting full prorated salary.

Source: Karl Ravech on Twitter                  Jun 8, 2020, 9:51 AM ET

Then more Players Association reaction to a clause about health/covid-19 in the new proposal:

Quote

Jorge Castillo of the Los Angeles Times reports that MLB's proposal to the MLBPA includes a revision to the Operations Manual which would require players to sign an "acknowledgment of risk" waiver before playing.

Much like the newest offer from MLB regarding pay, this doesn't appear to be well-received by the players. In fact, Castillo hears that the players believe the goal of the "acknowledgement of risk" waiver is to undermine their ability to challenge MLB for possible unsafe working conditions amid the COVID-19 pandemic. The health side has always been a serious part of talks, but the assumption was that it would be easier to find common ground there than the subject of player salary. At this point, maybe nothing is going to come easy here.

Source: Jorge Castillo on Twitter                            Jun 8, 2020, 12:52 PM ET

 

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These stupid, greedy owners remind me of that fantasy owner who sends you a bad offer, and just to engage them you send a fair counter offer, so then they send you an even more insulting offer in return. 

These fools aren't negotiating, they are biting off their nose to spite their face.

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Okay this is the playoff format the owners are proposing:

Quote

Joel Sherman of the New York Post reports that MLB's recent proposal to players included a 16-team playoff.

We knew that expanded playoffs were part of the discussion, but it was previously believed to be 14 teams. This scenario would ensure that eight teams from each league would make the playoffs, including a best-of-three first round. It could lead to some completely wild results, but more playoff games would mean more revenue and that's what MLB is looking for right now. It's interesting, but the biggest sticking point for the players is obviously their ability to get their full prorated salary for games played.

Source: Joel Sherman on Twitter                  Jun 8, 2020, 2:41 PM ET

Basically more than half the teams would be in the playoffs in an easy pesey format for a casual fantasy league type of set-up where everyone basically can make it and anyone can win.  It's lottery baseball coming to an empty ball park near you, hah.  If this season actually gets going with something like this there will be more asterisks after it in the record books than room to print them.

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2 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

 If this season actually gets going with something like this there will be more asterisks after it in the record books than room to print them.

Sadly, this got an actual laugh from me...

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I don’t know why this negotiation has to be so complicated.

Start with a baseline of a 48 game full pro-rated pay that each side technically has the right to insist on.  Have a discussion about how much money per extra game is worth it to each sides for the regular season.  Use playoffs, free agent draft pick, and all the other stuff to try to bridge the gap. It shouldn’t be taking this long to hash out!

As far as the health stuff goes, if the players are truly worried about safety then don’t agree to a season, but I don’t think they can realistically hope to reserve the right to sue their employer for resuming play as long as the mutually agreed upon protocols are followed.

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I am annoyed by both sides of this. But I do expect more from baseball players. Gone are the days when there was an instilled responsibility to the American people to play “For the love of the game”. They don’t even try to hide the fact that it’s now only about the money.  They don’t want to play more games because they enjoy playing a kid’s game. They want more games for more money. Really takes the bloom of the rose for a game that had always transcended sports. 

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3 hours ago, NoHablaIngles said:

Anecdotally, amongst all my friends (mid-20s); very few actually watch and follow baseball. The perception that baseball is boring and an old mans game is real.

This saga is just alienating the younger fan base even more. 

I disagree baseball is an old man sport. There are tons of little league teams out there, even on small communities.

I do agree with you that it can be boring. One needs a certain degree of patience to watch and play the game.

Me? I really can’t watch a game on tv, too many distractions around. But nothing beats going to a game.

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Posted (edited)

I love baseball. I don’t think it’s boring at all. But amongst my age group, I think I’m in the minority. From my experience, the younger generation just doesn’t care about baseball that much because of the perception that it’s slow and boring . 
 

That is why this whole greedy negotiation saga is so disheartening. Baseball could’ve have the eyes of entire sports world on them for a month before NBA, NHL and NFL come back. Instead, the public just hears about how greedy the owners and players are with their 2nd grade negotiation tactics. 
 

The perfect opportunity to grow the game was ruined by greed. And in fact, it could signal the long-term death of the game. Absolute shame. 

Edited by NoHablaIngles
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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, NoHablaIngles said:

Anecdotally, amongst all my friends (mid-20s); very few actually watch and follow baseball. The perception that baseball is boring and an old mans game is real.

This saga is just alienating the younger fan base even more. 

 I honestly don't think it is. At all. 

There have been no team sports in this country whatsoever for the past 2+ months, so for the casual fan baseball isn't really any different. Its just another activity impacted by the pandemic. 

 

Yes, it really pisses off the die hards (like myself and everyone else in this thread), but they (we) aren't going anywhere. They (we) will bitch and moan about the greedy owners and the needy players until this thing is resolved, and then we will forget about it, continue to invest hundreds of hours on fantasy baseball and real baseball, and move on. 

 

I doubt any lingering bad feelings from the fans due to these negotiations will even have an impact on revenue for next year. Even if the season is cancelled bc the two sides fail to reach an agreement, I don't think there will be any difference whatsoever on 2021 attendance and revenue, than if this season was cancelled strictly due to coronavirus/public health reasons. With everything else going on in the world, the vast majority of people really are not going to care about what happens with MLB one way or the other. 

Edited by cs3
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All of these doom and gloom feelings are natural as we witness one of the most painful and, frankly, embarrassing moments in the history of this sport. And for a sport with as rich a history as baseball, that’s saying a lot. No question an opportunity has been squandered. But, I have a feeling the tide will turn when the players get back on the field and we have actual live baseball to discuss. This country, and most of its inhabitants, have gold fish memory. Getting the game started, in any form, will fix a lot.

Where baseball falls in the sports hierarchy is of little concern to me. It’s a billion dollar industry. It’s by far my favorite sport. It’s a skill game. Any game can be boring. I’m sure everyone is just enthralled during a pointless 10 minute NFL replay review. It’s all personal preference, but the numbers easily say baseball isn’t going anywhere.

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8 minutes ago, TribeFoo said:

All of these doom and gloom feelings

All those doom and gloomers got their feelings hurt, now they are writing baseball is going to die. 

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29 minutes ago, cs3 said:

 I honestly don't think it is. At all. 

There have been no team sports in this country whatsoever for the past 2+ months, so for the casual fan baseball isn't really any different. Its just another activity impacted by the pandemic. 

 

Yes, it really pisses off the die hards (like myself and everyone else in this thread), but they (we) aren't going anywhere. They (we) will bitch and moan about the greedy owners and the needy players until this thing is resolved, and then we will forget about it, continue to invest hundreds of hours on fantasy baseball and real baseball, and move on. 

 

I doubt any lingering bad feelings from the fans due to these negotiations will even have an impact on revenue for next year. Even if the season is cancelled bc the two sides fail to reach an agreement, I don't think there will be any difference whatsoever on 2021 attendance and revenue, than if this season was cancelled strictly due to coronavirus/public health reasons. With everything else going on in the world, the vast majority of people really are not going to care about what happens with MLB one way or the other. 

I think this is correct. Just in my case I'm opening it up to owners in both my leagues as to whether we even have a season. To my surprise - so far at least (voting closes in a couple weeks) playing even a 50-game season is winning in the poll. "They (we)" (as you aptly call it) WANT ACTION - for however long. All of the owners are very cognizant that a season may not even happen in 2020 and are unanimously (so far) committing to 2021 - that is an option (to opt out) on the ballot - no takers. Roughly half of these owners have voted so far - 2 12-team leagues.

So from what I've seen you nail it in the quoted post.

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