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Coronavirus (COVID-19) Baseball Impact

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Well if any of the owners happen to read this, you are going to lose all your fans! If the owners don’t read this, hope they hurry up and kick mlb off soon, they (we) will take anything ;) 

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8 hours ago, NoHablaIngles said:

Anecdotally, amongst all my friends (mid-20s); very few actually watch and follow baseball. The perception that baseball is boring and an old mans game is real.

This saga is just alienating the younger fan base even more. 

30 yrs old here. All my friends (roughly same age) claim baseball is boring and they will not attend games, do not follow it but will occasionally play it because you know.. hitting dingers is fun. But i agree with you.. many find this sport we all love an old mans game and boring to say the least.

1 hour ago, TribeFoo said:

All of these doom and gloom feelings are natural as we witness one of the most painful and, frankly, embarrassing moments in the history of this sport. And for a sport with as rich a history as baseball, that’s saying a lot. No question an opportunity has been squandered. But, I have a feeling the tide will turn when the players get back on the field and we have actual live baseball to discuss. This country, and most of its inhabitants, have gold fish memory. Getting the game started, in any form, will fix a lot.

Where baseball falls in the sports hierarchy is of little concern to me. It’s a billion dollar industry. It’s by far my favorite sport. It’s a skill game. Any game can be boring. I’m sure everyone is just enthralled during a pointless 10 minute NFL replay review. It’s all personal preference, but the numbers easily say baseball isn’t going anywhere.

Definitely find NFL as one of the most boring sports on planet Earth. Just goes to show you it is all about preference.

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Posted (edited)

Let's see basketball is resuming July 31.  Football starts September 10th.  Baseball is starting when ??  We don't know.  I'm thinking baseball is not playing until March 2021 at the very earliest.  I'm blaming the owners and the players this time if this happens.

Hey baseball players and owners:  get with it and come to an agreement or I will NOT go to another game.....I'm not alone when I say this either!!  

Edited by willie24
addition to note

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On we go.  Who determines who is at risk and who isn't especially since the risks can be psychological damaging as well to either the player or his worried family members:

Quote

According to Bob Nightengale of USA Today, MLB's latest proposal to the MLBPA includes the option for players to sit out the 2020 season.

Players who opt not to play due to medical risks related to COVID-19 will receive their pay and service time. Players who opt out but are not deemed high risk would receive neither salary nor service time. This is probably going to be part of any return-to-play agreement between the league and union, though determining the level of risk for each individual player who decides not to participate could get a bit tricky.

Source: Bob Nightengale on Twitter                       Jun 8, 2020, 5:24 PM ET

But the above is a moot point right now since this whole plan as a whole has been rejected by the players:

Quote

According to Ken Rosenthal and Evan Drellich of The Athletic, the MLBPA will reject MLB's latest return-to-play proposal.

The plan proposed by the league on Monday morning called for a 76-game regular season in which the players would get 75 percent of their prorated salaries. The union, meanwhile, continues to demand 100 percent prorated salary shares. Another (new) sticking point is that MLB wants all players to sign an “acknowledgment of risk” waiver that would absolve the league of responsibility should a player have complications related to COVID-19. The situation could change quickly, but for now it feels like the two parties have made very little progress toward a return-to-play agreement. One might even argue that they're moving backward.

Source: The Athletic      Jun 8, 2020, 7:46 PM ET

Well back to my video games again for entertainment.

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They have been saying that baseball is an old man’s game and dying since my time, heck since before my time!  I bet they said this when the first ever pitch was thrown way back when.

The sport is not dying, revenue is double what it was 10 years ago and revenue is higher than basketball or hockey.. two “fast” games.  Baseball generates billions and it can’t be just old men.

Ironically slow games are generally more popular.  Look at soccer aka football in Europe.  Now I like football, don’t get me wrong but it’s a slow game. And NFL is also slow.  It’s not nonstop action. It’s like play, break. Timeout. Penalty. Halftime blah.  I like football too but it’s not fast moving. 
 

Baseball will be back sooner or later.  I want to play fantasy baseball in 2020 regardless if it’s only a few games.

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8 minutes ago, KingJoffrey said:

They have been saying that baseball is an old man’s game and dying since my time, heck since before my time!  I bet they said this when the first ever pitch was thrown way back when.

The sport is not dying, revenue is double what it was 10 years ago and revenue is higher than basketball or hockey.. two “fast” games.  Baseball generates billions and it can’t be just old men.

Ironically slow games are generally more popular.  Look at soccer aka football in Europe.  Now I like football, don’t get me wrong but it’s a slow game. And NFL is also slow.  It’s not nonstop action. It’s like play, break. Timeout. Penalty. Halftime blah.  I like football too but it’s not fast moving. 
 

Baseball will be back sooner or later.  I want to play fantasy baseball in 2020 regardless if it’s only a few games.


it is as tiresome as listening to mom and dad argue. Get on with it and give us our favorite distraction already!

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9 hours ago, KingJoffrey said:

They have been saying that baseball is an old man’s game and dying since my time, heck since before my time!  I bet they said this when the first ever pitch was thrown way back when.

The sport is not dying, revenue is double what it was 10 years ago and revenue is higher than basketball or hockey.. two “fast” games.  Baseball generates billions and it can’t be just old men.

Ironically slow games are generally more popular.  Look at soccer aka football in Europe.  Now I like football, don’t get me wrong but it’s a slow game. And NFL is also slow.  It’s not nonstop action. It’s like play, break. Timeout. Penalty. Halftime blah.  I like football too but it’s not fast moving. 
 

Baseball will be back sooner or later.  I want to play fantasy baseball in 2020 regardless if it’s only a few games.

I grew up worshipping NFL football but haven't watched any regular season games since the early 90s.   simply stated, there's too much "down time" and, frankly, very little action.    Nearly 3.5 hours are required to complete a 60 minute game.   I just find it too dull anymore....

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I can’t stop venting about this negotiation, it is driving me crazy.

Why did they have to wait until they were on the cusp of being able to start spring training to start negotiating? Now the number of hypothetical regular season games is decreasing with every passing day! Yet they wait nearly a week between every offer and counteroffer!?

I guess the owners don’t care about protracted negotiations shortening the regular season if every game played increases their losses, but the players should care! 

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I guess we are just the odd balls?

All my friends (in 30's or late 20's) love baseball. We go to games, tailgate, meet up at bars for games, and bet heavy on them. We also all are in the same fantasy baseball league since 2000.

Living in both South Jersey and Philadelphia the youth leagues are all full for baseball, softball, and tee-ball.

 

Where are these people located who say baseball is an "old guys" sport?

Yahoo FBB, ESPN FBB, CBSFBB, NFBC, Fan Duel, and Draft Kings all have spiked numbers compared to years past...

 

I have yet to really see that demographic, maybe the phillies are just better and injecting baseball into today's youth. I can't speak for people living in the middle of the country, but the metropolitan areas seem to still have the love for baseball in all ages. Like I said maybe it's just me, or maybe the media is spinning this narrative. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, South Jersey Bombers said:

I guess we are just the odd balls?

All my friends (in 30's or late 20's) love baseball. We go to games, tailgate, meet up at bars for games, and bet heavy on them. We also all are in the same fantasy baseball league since 2000.

Living in both South Jersey and Philadelphia the youth leagues are all full for baseball, softball, and tee-ball.

Where are these people located who say baseball is an "old guys" sport?

Yahoo FBB, ESPN FBB, CBSFBB, NFBC, Fan Duel, and Draft Kings all have spiked numbers compared to years past...

I have yet to really see that demographic, maybe the phillies are just better and injecting baseball into today's youth. I can't speak for people living in the middle of the country, but the metropolitan areas seem to still have the love for baseball in all ages. Like I said maybe it's just me, or maybe the media is spinning this narrative. 

Totally OT but hey this forum is dead while baseball remains dead.

First, unfortunately Yahoo, ESPN etc fantasy sites skew heavily towards football leagues numbers wise.  I mean probably 50 to even a hundred football leagues to every baseball league maybe.  Football is fantasy king alas.  Probably because you only have to set your team once a week and it is mostly a luck game thus perfect for the casual fans and office pool culture that make the the biggest numbers on those sites. 

Now I give you that the one day betting sites do benefit from baseball's longer season and have helped to revive interest in the game some but that 162 game bonanza for those companies ain't happening this season. 

But baseball is on the decline according to polls and TV viewing ratings alas.  Why?  A number of reasons.  Like more X game and video game sports being inventing every day and shown on TV as well.  Also social media zapping your attention.  Add in endless cable channels tempting you to check out something else instead on TV.  And don't forget home video games where you can get a buzz "playing" baseball sitting on a coach instead of just passively sitting back and watching it on the same coach.

Also consider this.  A game in the 1950's played way faster by almost an hour shorter.  All the digital age data and babying of pitchers thus endless pitching changes etc adds not only minutes to a game but stops the game in it's tracks just when one team may be threatening to score.  Then bang.  Pitching changes.  Commercials.  Action freezes as you channel surf and forget to come back after your attention is caught by something else.  Or if you do come back the flow of the game is lost so the "feel" of time psychologically makes the game seem even slower as a result.  And the data stuff?  It has lead to the endless shifts that have changed baseball into a more boring game with the action on the base paths being replaced with elevating swings that tends to lead to low batting averages and the three true outcomes K/BB/Homer scenarios which put me to sleep.

My take on fans for the fun of it:

As for Phillies fans as we both know east coast baseball is a blood sport.  We in New England tend to think of Philly fans as our cousins to the south as we both straddle the behemoth of NYC and the Yankee/Mets mega-hub.  We all take baseball far more seriously in general than other areas of the country.  Especially in intensity level.  It's like every game matters.  Parks tend to be fuller and it's in the blood and the DNA at this point.  (BTW I live in New England and have for years but was born and spent my first 7 years in a small town outside of Philly so the Phils have remained my NL favorites).

Talking about blood and DNA ... football is god in the south.  Baseball will never top it there ever where high school football games can draw 10 to 20,000 fans to games alone what to speak of the SEC which is just as popular (and stirs far more passions) than the southern NFL teams among the fans there.

The midwest is baseball friendly territory but their fans seem to be more polite and civilized than us east coasters thus while they won't on a whole get into shouting matches or fist fights over games they also won't get as intense as a result by definition.  Also the midwest fans diversify a lot as seem to me as an outsider to be into all 4 of the major sports relatively equally.

The west coast?  Well I've seen on TV and heard stories by players of the fans there slowly drifting into the stands over the first 3 or 4 innings then drifting out by about the 7th inning to go to the beach or whatever.  More casual fans in other words.  And with the Lakers and the Warriors in the west basketball is big time there.

Yep a bit off topic and lots of stereotypes above for the hell of it.  (Obviously people here from the south and west are passionate because they post on a fantasy BASEBALL forum).  But at least this post was more fun than discussing a virus or who to boo and hiss at in the sport of The Billionaires (owners) vs The Millionaires (players).

Edited by The Big Bat Theory
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53 minutes ago, South Jersey Bombers said:

I guess we are just the odd balls?

All my friends (in 30's or late 20's) love baseball. We go to games, tailgate, meet up at bars for games, and bet heavy on them. We also all are in the same fantasy baseball league since 2000.

Living in both South Jersey and Philadelphia the youth leagues are all full for baseball, softball, and tee-ball.

 

Where are these people located who say baseball is an "old guys" sport?

Yahoo FBB, ESPN FBB, CBSFBB, NFBC, Fan Duel, and Draft Kings all have spiked numbers compared to years past...

 

I have yet to really see that demographic, maybe the phillies are just better and injecting baseball into today's youth. I can't speak for people living in the middle of the country, but the metropolitan areas seem to still have the love for baseball in all ages. Like I said maybe it's just me, or maybe the media is spinning this narrative. 

 

It depends on the area of the country imo.  Baseball in the northeast from Boston to NY\Phil is pretty much bulletproof and embedded in the culture for a century+ imo.  Families of die-hard Yankee or Red Sox or Philly fans for ex.  In the NY area for ex., the Yankees own the city sports-wise...always been that way despite what Giant or Met fans want to believe.  Millions of fans go to the games despite ludicrously high prices, horrible traffic, etc. even when their teams are not that great.  It is just something that has been part of the culture for so long and is passed from parent to child.  Certain other areas have that sort of inherited love of the game as well like LA...others do not.  The midwest is more of a basketball and football area.  Texas is more football imo, even HS football is big there. 

That said, in my experience, football is more easily understood by the avg person.  It is not a complicated game to understand at its most basic level and only becomes complicated when you get into the play designs and formation type stuff, which most fans of it do not really even consider imo.  Baseball is much more complex and getting a real understanding and appreciation of it takes much more time and you have to be the sort of person who appreciates that and the concept of hitting a round ball that is going 90+ mph with movement with a round bat.  Add in that it is played basically every day for 6-7 months not once a week for 16-17 weeks often as part of a social gathering.  It is a long term, seasonal game with strategies and goals honed over a century and rigorously debated down to the most minute of detail even by the avg fan who follows it over the years. 

New immigrants to the country that have not been exposed to it before or the younger generations that look for instant gratification and action all the time are not going to be drawn to it as much unless they are exposed to it at a young age imo.  The appreciation people get for baseball takes time to develop as does truly understanding it and that is antithetical to today's instant gratification, narcissistic culture imo.

My 2 cents.

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Posted (edited)

Hey secretagentman we kind of posted the same thing though I gave midwesterners more baseball love cause I know Cards and Cubbie fans especially are pretty darn passionate.  And Ohio fans love their baseball as my cousins remind me.

And good point about newer immigrants.  One of my very best friends was born in Spain and he has tried hard to watch baseball but he just can't stand the slow pace.  For him nothing is going on between pitches.  So I try to explain coaches giving signs, pitchers just not throwing the baseball but having different "types" of pitches, batters having holes in their swings to exploit, waste pitches, set-up pitches, etc etc.  He understands some of it intellectually now but it still is too slow for him as he grew up with the constant action in soccer. 

Now to me soccer just seems like guys running around endlessly with nothing ever seeming to happen until you walk out of the room for a minute to get a drink and you suddenly here some weird announcer screaming S-C-O-R-E!!!!!!! at the top of his lungs.  We laugh all the time at how the difference of where we were raised and games we learned when very young color our perceptions of other games.

Edited by The Big Bat Theory
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14 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Totally OT but hey this forum is dead while baseball remains dead.

First, unfortunately Yahoo, ESPN etc fantasy sites skew heavily towards football leagues numbers wise.  I mean probably 50 to even a hundred football leagues to every baseball league maybe.  Football is fantasy king alas.  Probably because you only have to set your team once a week and it is mostly a luck game thus perfect for the casual fans and office pool culture that make the the biggest numbers on those sites. 

Now I give you that the one day betting sites do benefit from baseball's longer season and have helped to revive interest in the game some but that 162 game bonanza for those companies ain't happening this season. 

But baseball is on the decline according to polls and TV viewing ratings alas.  Why?  A number of reasons.  Like more X game and video game sports being inventing every day and shown on TV as well.  Also social media zapping your attention.  Add in endless cable channels tempting you to check out something else instead on TV.  And don't forget home video games where you can get a buzz "playing" baseball sitting on a coach instead of just passively sitting back and watching it on the same coach.

Also consider this.  A game in the 1950's played way faster by almost an hour shorter.  All the digital age data and babying of pitchers thus endless pitching changes etc adds not only minutes to a game but stops the game in it's tracks just when one team may be threatening to score.  Then bang.  Pitching changes.  Commercials.  Action freezes as you channel surf and forget to come back after your attention is caught by something else.  Or if you do come back the flow of the game is lost so the "feel" of time psychologically makes the game seem even slower as a result.  And the data stuff?  It has lead to the endless shifts that have changed baseball into a more boring game with the action on the base paths being replaced with elevating swings that tends to lead to low batting averages and the three true outcomes K/BB/Homer scenarios which put me to sleep.

My take on fans for the fun of it:

As for Phillies fans as we both know east coast baseball is a blood sport.  We in New England tend to think of Philly fans as our cousins to the south as we both straddle the behemoth of NYC and the Yankee/Mets mega-hub.  We all take baseball far more seriously in general than other areas of the country.  Especially in intensity level.  It's like every game matters.  Parks tend to be fuller and it's in the blood and the DNA at this point.  (BTW I live in New England and have for years but was born and spent my first 7 years in a small town outside of Philly so the Phils have remained my NL favorites).

Talking about blood and DNA ... football is god in the south.  Baseball will never top it there ever where high school football games can draw 10 to 20,000 fans to games alone what to speak of the SEC which is just as popular (and stirs far more passions) than the southern NFL teams among the fans there.

The midwest is baseball friendly territory but their fans seem to be more polite and civilized than us east coasters thus while they won't on a whole get into shouting matches or fist fights over games they also won't get as intense as a result by definition.  Also the midwest fans diversify a lot as seem to me as an outsider to be into all 4 of the major sports relatively equally.

The west coast?  Well I've seen on TV and heard stories by players of the fans there slowly drifting into the stands over the first 3 or 4 innings then drifting out by about the 7th inning to go to the beach or whatever.  More casual fans in other words.  And with the Lakers and the Warriors in the west basketball is big time there.

Yep a bit off topic and lots of stereotypes above for the hell of it.  (Obviously people here from the south and west are passionate because they post on a fantasy BASEBALL forum).  But at least this post was more fun than discussing a virus or who to boo and hiss at in the sport of The Billionaires (owners) vs The Millionaires (players).

 

Yup...As a side note, generally the more baseball tries to tweak the rules to speed it up, the more they usually screw it up imo.  It is sort of trying to appease people who are never going to like you....pointless in the end imo.  While getting rid of some of the ridiuclous excesses of some of the worst of it like all the mound visits is a good thing imo, the nonsense of trying to limit pitching changes, having extra bats ready, putting up 4 fingers for an intentional walk, etc. is just not adding anything to the game imo.  Saving 20 secs by having an extra bat ready on deck is not drawing anyone to the game...nor is the IBB with 4 fingers rule.  Nor is stupid stuff like having instant replay reviews that take 5-10 minutes (want more accurate results, get better umps...something Baseball has seemed unwillingly to deal with).  The games are longer because of commercial breaks and players being allowed to step out of the batter's box too much and pitcher's taking too long between pitchers.  And rules already exist to deal with that...just enforce them imo and actually call a ball on a pitcher if he goes over the limit in between pitches.

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8 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Hey secretagentman we kind of posted the same thing though I gave midwesterners more baseball love cause I know Cards and Cubbie fans especially are pretty darn passionate.  And Ohio fans love their baseball as my cousins remind me.

And good point about newer immigrants.  One of my very best friends was born in Spain and he has tried hard to watch baseball but he just can't stand the slow pace.  For him nothing is going on between pitches.  So I try to explain coaches giving signs, pitchers just not throwing the baseball but having different "types" of pitches, batters having holes in their swings to exploit, waste pitches, set-up pitches, etc etc.  He understands some of it intellectually now but it still is too slow for him as he grew up with the constant action in soccer. 

Now to me soccer just seems like guys running around endlessly with nothing ever seeming to happen until you walk out of the room for a minute to get a drink and you suddenly here some weird announcer screaming S-C-O-R-E!!!!!!! at the top of his lungs.  We laugh all the time at how the difference of where we were raised and games we learned when very young color our perceptions of other games.

Yup...a couple of my friends are Russian immigrants and I get the same thing.  Neither of them understand baseball at any level imo.  They like soccer, which to me is the sports equivalent of watching a dripping faucet.  When I mention to them that soccer would be better if they got rid of the stupid offside rule which basically prevents any scoring, they claim that would take the skill out of the game lol...the skill to score one point in 1.5 hours lol.  To each his own.  They will watch football, because as I noted, it is easy for them to understand.  They also complain the baseball is too slow for them lol. 

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2 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

The midwest is baseball friendly territory but their fans seem to be more polite and civilized than us east coasters thus while they won't on a whole get into shouting matches or fist fights over games they also won't get as intense as a result by definition.  Also the midwest fans diversify a lot as seem to me as an outsider to be into all 4 of the major sports relatively equally.

Generally true, but I have both been apart and witnessed several arguments and fist fights at Cubs v Crew games over my years of going to both parks. Friend had his jaw broke in 3 places for no good reason by a bunch of wasted bros in Wrigley concourse. Cardinal and Reds fans are pretty awesome baseball fans in my experiences over the years. Twins too. Baseball is still really big in the midwest imo. Always amazes me that tiny Milwaukee can consistently rank within the top 10 in attendance.

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According to Mr.Passan:

"The MLBPA is making a proposal to MLB for a season of around 89 games with a full prorated share of salary and expanded playoffs, sources familiar with the situation told ESPN. It would bring the sides closer to a potential deal and is ~25 games under the last union offer.

The proposal is for 89 games, not around 89, and is 25 fewer than the union’s last proposal of 114 games at full pro rata, sources tell ESPN."

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82 games, 90% pro-rata. Enough with this silly dance, get it done, guys. 

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after read this , I am VERY bullish on a season right though now.

 

if they (both parties ) can’t make it work off this is, burn it all down 

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7 minutes ago, brockpapersizer said:

after read this , I am VERY bullish on a season right though now.

 

if they (both parties ) can’t make it work off this is, burn it all down 

Question to a management person not directly involved in negotiations, but briefed on them and influential: Did this union offer move the ball at all? Response: Zero. We continue toward a Commish-imposed 50-ish game season with full prorated pay.
8:39 PM · Jun 9, 2020·TweetDeck

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I hope owners seemingly being adamant about not paying full prorated is posturing.  

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What's honestly the difference of 75% prorated salaries and 100% prorated salaries for half a season?

Are we to believe that 13.5% of their athletes payroll over the course of a season against the loss of the gate revenue (estimated at about 30%) is going to make the difference between baseball teams being profitable or falling into a state of economic ruin?

Just honor the deal already and stop trying to play a game of chicken with your buck today against 10 in the future.

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1 hour ago, JE7HorseGod said:

What's honestly the difference of 75% prorated salaries and 100% prorated salaries for half a season?

Are we to believe that 13.5% of their athletes payroll over the course of a season against the loss of the gate revenue (estimated at about 30%) is going to make the difference between baseball teams being profitable or falling into a state of economic ruin?

Just honor the deal already and stop trying to play a game of chicken with your buck today against 10 in the future.

Right? bite the bullet today to prosper for the next 20+ years. Don't bite the bullet? Well, the next 20 years aint gonna be much fun financially for the owners. Im already loosing interest.. and this is coming from a life long die hard baseball fan. What a turn off this has been..

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