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Coronavirus (COVID-19) Baseball Impact

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19 minutes ago, jonninho said:

Right? bite the bullet today to prosper for the next 20+ years. Don't bite the bullet? Well, the next 20 years aint gonna be much fun financially for the owners. Im already loosing interest.. and this is coming from a life long die hard baseball fan. What a turn off this has been..

I guess the latest solution is to try and strong arm a 50 game season and have a bunch of players sit out.

Great job guys.  You sure showed them who's boss.  What a joke.

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9 minutes ago, JE7HorseGod said:

I guess the latest solution is to try and strong arm a 50 game season and have a bunch of players sit out.

Great job guys.  You sure showed them who's boss.  What a joke.

MLB runs the biggest daycare in America.

You have to pamper the babies hourly.

I'm taking my ball and going home.

Every player who sits out, fans should burn their jerseys.

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13 minutes ago, HOOTIE said:

MLB runs the biggest daycare in America.

You have to pamper the babies hourly.

I'm taking my ball and going home.

Every player who sits out, fans should burn their jerseys.

If that's the case, they're doing a terrible job with it.

I enjoy the game but a 50 game season with a bunch of missing players because they felt the need to turn a global pandemic into a duck measuring contest is ludicrous.

If this is the best idea the owners can come up with I'm going to find something better to do with my time, this is ridiculous.

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18 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Totally OT but hey this forum is dead while baseball remains dead.

First, unfortunately Yahoo, ESPN etc fantasy sites skew heavily towards football leagues numbers wise.  I mean probably 50 to even a hundred football leagues to every baseball league maybe.  Football is fantasy king alas.  Probably because you only have to set your team once a week and it is mostly a luck game thus perfect for the casual fans and office pool culture that make the the biggest numbers on those sites. 

Now I give you that the one day betting sites do benefit from baseball's longer season and have helped to revive interest in the game some but that 162 game bonanza for those companies ain't happening this season. 

But baseball is on the decline according to polls and TV viewing ratings alas.  Why?  A number of reasons.  Like more X game and video game sports being inventing every day and shown on TV as well.  Also social media zapping your attention.  Add in endless cable channels tempting you to check out something else instead on TV.  And don't forget home video games where you can get a buzz "playing" baseball sitting on a coach instead of just passively sitting back and watching it on the same coach.

Also consider this.  A game in the 1950's played way faster by almost an hour shorter.  All the digital age data and babying of pitchers thus endless pitching changes etc adds not only minutes to a game but stops the game in it's tracks just when one team may be threatening to score.  Then bang.  Pitching changes.  Commercials.  Action freezes as you channel surf and forget to come back after your attention is caught by something else.  Or if you do come back the flow of the game is lost so the "feel" of time psychologically makes the game seem even slower as a result.  And the data stuff?  It has lead to the endless shifts that have changed baseball into a more boring game with the action on the base paths being replaced with elevating swings that tends to lead to low batting averages and the three true outcomes K/BB/Homer scenarios which put me to sleep.

My take on fans for the fun of it:

As for Phillies fans as we both know east coast baseball is a blood sport.  We in New England tend to think of Philly fans as our cousins to the south as we both straddle the behemoth of NYC and the Yankee/Mets mega-hub.  We all take baseball far more seriously in general than other areas of the country.  Especially in intensity level.  It's like every game matters.  Parks tend to be fuller and it's in the blood and the DNA at this point.  (BTW I live in New England and have for years but was born and spent my first 7 years in a small town outside of Philly so the Phils have remained my NL favorites).

Talking about blood and DNA ... football is god in the south.  Baseball will never top it there ever where high school football games can draw 10 to 20,000 fans to games alone what to speak of the SEC which is just as popular (and stirs far more passions) than the southern NFL teams among the fans there.

The midwest is baseball friendly territory but their fans seem to be more polite and civilized than us east coasters thus while they won't on a whole get into shouting matches or fist fights over games they also won't get as intense as a result by definition.  Also the midwest fans diversify a lot as seem to me as an outsider to be into all 4 of the major sports relatively equally.

The west coast?  Well I've seen on TV and heard stories by players of the fans there slowly drifting into the stands over the first 3 or 4 innings then drifting out by about the 7th inning to go to the beach or whatever.  More casual fans in other words.  And with the Lakers and the Warriors in the west basketball is big time there.

Yep a bit off topic and lots of stereotypes above for the hell of it.  (Obviously people here from the south and west are passionate because they post on a fantasy BASEBALL forum).  But at least this post was more fun than discussing a virus or who to boo and hiss at in the sport of The Billionaires (owners) vs The Millionaires (players).

 

18 hours ago, secretagentman said:

 

It depends on the area of the country imo.  Baseball in the northeast from Boston to NY\Phil is pretty much bulletproof and embedded in the culture for a century+ imo.  Families of die-hard Yankee or Red Sox or Philly fans for ex.  In the NY area for ex., the Yankees own the city sports-wise...always been that way despite what Giant or Met fans want to believe.  Millions of fans go to the games despite ludicrously high prices, horrible traffic, etc. even when their teams are not that great.  It is just something that has been part of the culture for so long and is passed from parent to child.  Certain other areas have that sort of inherited love of the game as well like LA...others do not.  The midwest is more of a basketball and football area.  Texas is more football imo, even HS football is big there. 

That said, in my experience, football is more easily understood by the avg person.  It is not a complicated game to understand at its most basic level and only becomes complicated when you get into the play designs and formation type stuff, which most fans of it do not really even consider imo.  Baseball is much more complex and getting a real understanding and appreciation of it takes much more time and you have to be the sort of person who appreciates that and the concept of hitting a round ball that is going 90+ mph with movement with a round bat.  Add in that it is played basically every day for 6-7 months not once a week for 16-17 weeks often as part of a social gathering.  It is a long term, seasonal game with strategies and goals honed over a century and rigorously debated down to the most minute of detail even by the avg fan who follows it over the years. 

New immigrants to the country that have not been exposed to it before or the younger generations that look for instant gratification and action all the time are not going to be drawn to it as much unless they are exposed to it at a young age imo.  The appreciation people get for baseball takes time to develop as does truly understanding it and that is antithetical to today's instant gratification, narcissistic culture imo.

My 2 cents.

 

 

Love the responses, but...

 

why the argument that "the south is football country" , "football is king", or "fantasy football is more popular"...that wasn't the argument, i mean now more than ever, i have realized i LOVE so many different sports. 

Make no mistake the Birds are king in Philly, but everyone still loves the phillies.

But I personally could watch all of the big 4 sports with alot of passion, and still even make time in for the EPL, Boxing, or MMA.

 

 

Why does a large percentage of the country stick to the 1980's mindset of "football is king down here and thats that" ??

I would expect in 2020 most of the country would like a variety of sports. 

 

 

lol and don't call us the little cousins, Philly deserves a hell of alot more respect than that. 😂

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18 hours ago, secretagentman said:

Yup...a couple of my friends are Russian immigrants and I get the same thing.  Neither of them understand baseball at any level imo.  They like soccer, which to me is the sports equivalent of watching a dripping faucet.  When I mention to them that soccer would be better if they got rid of the stupid offside rule which basically prevents any scoring, they claim that would take the skill out of the game lol...the skill to score one point in 1.5 hours lol.  To each his own.  They will watch football, because as I noted, it is easy for them to understand.  They also complain the baseball is too slow for them lol. 

With the English Primear League consistantly on NBC Sports i got into soccer about 5-6 years ago. Betting on it played a huge part i will say.

But if you think of soccer as college football you can actually find a team you may like. Different divisons are like the different conferences in CF. The Primear League would be like the Big 10, alot of quality teams with big rivalries. The SEC would be La Liga where Barcelona or Real Madrid are kings. I kinda fell in love with Tottenham in the English Premear league because they were most like the Eagles, never won it all but always were in contention (up until 2017).

The Red Sox would be Liverpool, the Yankees would be Manchester United, St. Louis Cards would be Chelsea, and the Astros would prob be Manchester City. 

 

There is no sports right now, so who knows, maybe go down the rabbit hole on youtube of the soccer team thats the = to your MLB team. Rivalries, crazy fans, big goals, betting on games, pubs.. soccer across the pond is very similar to baseball, you may just like it.  

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27 minutes ago, South Jersey Bombers said:

 

 

 

Love the responses, but...

 

why the argument that "the south is football country" , "football is king", or "fantasy football is more popular"...that wasn't the argument, i mean now more than ever, i have realized i LOVE so many different sports. 

Make no mistake the Birds are king in Philly, but everyone still loves the phillies.

But I personally could watch all of the big 4 sports with alot of passion, and still even make time in for the EPL, Boxing, or MMA.

 

 

Why does a large percentage of the country stick to the 1980's mindset of "football is king down here and thats that" ??

I would expect in 2020 most of the country would like a variety of sports. 

 

 

lol and don't call us the little cousins, Philly deserves a hell of alot more respect than that. 😂

There was so much false narrative in those comments i didn't know where to begin 😂

Baseball isn't as dead as media would like us to believe.  I coach youth,  there's so many teams now we all complain about how watered down the high levels have become.  It seems like there's a hundred new teams every year,  and I'm in Michigan.  

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1 minute ago, WahooManiac said:

There was so much false narrative in those comments i didn't know where to begin 😂

Baseball isn't as dead as media would like us to believe.  I coach youth,  there's so many teams now we all complain about how watered down the high levels have become.  It seems like there's a hundred new teams every year,  and I'm in Michigan.  

That was my original statement, the media is playing this narrorative that baseball is dying. I refuse to believe it. 

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Can someone explain this to me...

So let's say they don't work a deal. Then Rob Manfred (commish) comes in and implements the 48 game season. 

Why is that the default? That means we are guranteed 100% that there will be baseball played? 

Why wouldn't they just cancel the season? 

So all this talk between the players and the owners is really just bickering over the amount of games/pay rate and really setting precedents for the 2021 CBA? They all know that the commish will just force 50 games?

Also, doesn't that seem unfair to the players who have been positioning on wanting MORE games and not the 50 outlined by the owners? The owners already know the commish will force a 50 game season?

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19 minutes ago, CrypTviLL said:

Can someone explain this to me...

So let's say they don't work a deal. Then Rob Manfred (commish) comes in and implements the 48 game season. 

Why is that the default? That means we are guranteed 100% that there will be baseball played? 

Why wouldn't they just cancel the season? 

So all this talk between the players and the owners is really just bickering over the amount of games/pay rate and really setting precedents for the 2021 CBA? They all know that the commish will just force 50 games?

Also, doesn't that seem unfair to the players who have been positioning on wanting MORE games and not the 50 outlined by the owners? The owners already know the commish will force a 50 game season?

Basically the agreement in March was that players get their full prorated schedule, but the owners get to decide on the number of games.

Ownership has decided that if they can't get more money out of the players, they're going to stick all of us with a preposterous scenario of playing 30% of a season, and if you don't like it, tough luck, enjoy XFL baseball for a couple months.

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14 minutes ago, JE7HorseGod said:

and if you don't like it, tough luck, enjoy XFL baseball for a couple months.

 

Or, more likely, no baseball at all due to MLB's antitrust exemption.

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45 minutes ago, tonycpsu said:

 

Or, more likely, no baseball at all due to MLB's antitrust exemption.

Honestly that's an improvement over this clown show.

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2 hours ago, CrypTviLL said:

Can someone explain this to me...

So let's say they don't work a deal. Then Rob Manfred (commish) comes in and implements the 48 game season. 

Why is that the default? That means we are guranteed 100% that there will be baseball played? 

Why wouldn't they just cancel the season? 

So all this talk between the players and the owners is really just bickering over the amount of games/pay rate and really setting precedents for the 2021 CBA? They all know that the commish will just force 50 games?

Also, doesn't that seem unfair to the players who have been positioning on wanting MORE games and not the 50 outlined by the owners? The owners already know the commish will force a 50 game season?

I don't know the finer points of it, but if a 48 game season was imposed I wouldn't be surprised to see a player strike/refusal to play. 

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3 hours ago, South Jersey Bombers said:

lol and don't call us the little cousins, Philly deserves a hell of alot more respect than that. 😂

What the hell?  I said our cousin in the south as in south of NYC as opposed to north of it where I am.  It WAS a term of respect.  Two cousins playing the role of the hero Davids against the Goliath in the middle.  Please actually read what I write and show me some respect back.  Thank you.

3 hours ago, South Jersey Bombers said:

The Red Sox would be Liverpool, the Yankees would be Manchester United, St. Louis Cards would be Chelsea, and the Astros would prob be Manchester City.

You do know the Red Sox basically ARE Liverpool as much of their money for mega-contracts and luxury tax penalty payments in generated from the profits Liverpool makes via John Henry who is majority owners both teams.  Liverpool makes far more money for him and he channels a lot of it back into the Sox coffers.

"Meanwhile" (as Stephen Colbert would say) ... the latest sad chuckle called negotiations.

Quote

USA Today's Bob Nightengale writes that MLB commissioner Rob Manfred "may have no choice but to implement" a regular-season schedule of around 50 games.

Nightengale, citing three Major League Baseball executives, says this could happen "within a week" if the owners and players are unable to reach agreement for a longer season. The union rejected MLB's latest proposal for a 76-game season at 75 percent prorated pay and countered with an 89-game campaign that would include full prorated salary shares. The owners are expected to "swiftly reject" that idea, per Nightengale, and it doesn't seem like there is much willingness to budge on either side. It's about a $900 million gap, all told. "If we don’t get an agreement real soon, this is going to be ugly," one high-ranking executive told Nightengale. "Real ugly. And it’s just going to get worse."

Source: USA Today                            Jun 10, 2020, 9:33 AM ET

 

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1 hour ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

It's about a $900 million gap, all told. "If we don’t get an agreement real soon, this is going to be ugly," one high-ranking executive told Nightengale. "Real ugly. And it’s just going to get worse."

It's so sad that this whole situation has been reduced to financial opportunity.  Sports were supposed to be about NOT Real World issues...

 

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What is it worth monetarily to the owners to have an expanded vs regular playoffs?

Isn’t that amount of money the only leverage the players really have (besides general goodwill)? Even then the owners want them to share in the risk of a playoff cancellation.

That doesn’t seem like a lot of incentive for the owners to invest more player salary money in the regular season. I know it might be morally right for them to spend more on salaries, but they didn’t get rich in the first place by flushing away money they didn’t need to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Remember when all the players were saying its about health and not money? Now health is hardly even brought up. Good times...

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9 hours ago, tonycpsu said:

 

Or, more likely, no baseball at all due to MLB's antitrust exemption.

Think we’ll see another performance of scabs/replacement players?

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4 hours ago, charger_ss24 said:

Think we’ll see another performance of scabs/replacement players?

not a chance. its called youth ball/hs/juco/d2/d1/rookie/low a/high a/ aa/aaa 

noone cares or will watch that garbage.

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16 hours ago, South Jersey Bombers said:

With the English Primear League consistantly on NBC Sports i got into soccer about 5-6 years ago. Betting on it played a huge part i will say.

But if you think of soccer as college football you can actually find a team you may like. Different divisons are like the different conferences in CF. The Primear League would be like the Big 10, alot of quality teams with big rivalries. The SEC would be La Liga where Barcelona or Real Madrid are kings. I kinda fell in love with Tottenham in the English Premear league because they were most like the Eagles, never won it all but always were in contention (up until 2017).

The Red Sox would be Liverpool, the Yankees would be Manchester United, St. Louis Cards would be Chelsea, and the Astros would prob be Manchester City. 

 

There is no sports right now, so who knows, maybe go down the rabbit hole on youtube of the soccer team thats the = to your MLB team. Rivalries, crazy fans, big goals, betting on games, pubs.. soccer across the pond is very similar to baseball, you may just like it.  

I would rather have root canal than endure an hour and a half bore-fest watching a bunch of guys run back and forth across a huge field to score 1 point.  As I said, I compare it to watching water drip out of a faucet.  It has never been very popular here (and they have tried multiple times at various levels) and it is never going to crack the big 4 imo.  Golf is more entertaining imo and I hate golf lol.  So is darts lol. 

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15 hours ago, JE7HorseGod said:

Basically the agreement in March was that players get their full prorated schedule, but the owners get to decide on the number of games.

Ownership has decided that if they can't get more money out of the players, they're going to stick all of us with a preposterous scenario of playing 30% of a season, and if you don't like it, tough luck, enjoy XFL baseball for a couple months.

Actually I think ownership has decided that to make enough money to make it worth their while via tv contracts and playoff TV money, 50 or so games and more playoff games (which means more TV revenue) is where they are at assuming pro-rated salaries.  No one is in business to lose money and since the MLBPA rejected any form of revenue sharing or anything less than full pro-rated salaries based on the number of games played and left it to the commish and owners to decide how many games to play, it ends up here. The owners lost 45-55% of their revenue by not having any fans in the seats.  It is what it is.

The players really have no argument imo.  They agreed to that contract and if 50 or 48 is what the owners want to do, they really have nothing to say about it and their own refusal to budge off the prorated salary structure to blame.  They are getting exactly what they agreed to in March in that case, so they should just shut up and play imo since all it does is make them look bad to complain.

Now if they want to act like spoiled brats and not play at all and get 0% instead of roughly 30% because they really want a little over 50%, it is just a case of shooting themselves imo.  If certain players opt out because they do not like the terms\risks, that is their right.  I somehow think few big name players are sitting out and turning down 30% of 20+ million because because they wanted 50% of 20+ million, but who knows.  Maybe the entire MLBPA says screw it, but I doubt that sits well with the younger players.  We shall see where it goes, but if I was betting on it, I would say we end up with 48 or 50 games and most of the players end up bitching a lot but not foregoing the money.

 

 

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There is not way 45-55% of their revenue comes from the gate.  The most aggressive projection is about 30%.

The owners have the ability to set the schedule, but a 50 game season with half their stars will be terrible, no one would watch it, and might be nixed before it even gets started because of baseball's antitrust exemption.

Which, frankly, is fine by me.  I'd rather watch fully loaded NBA teams play in the playoffs and then transition to football than two months of garbage "baseball."  I don't figure I'm alone in that sentiment.  We'll see what happens in 2021 I guess but I'll have lost a lot of enthusiasm for this game.

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, South Jersey Bombers said:

With the English Primear League consistantly on NBC Sports i got into soccer about 5-6 years ago. Betting on it played a huge part i will say.

But if you think of soccer as college football you can actually find a team you may like. Different divisons are like the different conferences in CF. The Primear League would be like the Big 10, alot of quality teams with big rivalries. The SEC would be La Liga where Barcelona or Real Madrid are kings. I kinda fell in love with Tottenham in the English Premear league because they were most like the Eagles, never won it all but always were in contention (up until 2017).

The Red Sox would be Liverpool, the Yankees would be Manchester United, St. Louis Cards would be Chelsea, and the Astros would prob be Manchester City. 

 

There is no sports right now, so who knows, maybe go down the rabbit hole on youtube of the soccer team thats the = to your MLB team. Rivalries, crazy fans, big goals, betting on games, pubs.. soccer across the pond is very similar to baseball, you may just like it.  

Except in European soccer the good teams are always good because they have the  most money, they never suck where as in North America because of the salary caps. The teams that are good change in cycles.

Edited by azeri98
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1 hour ago, JE7HorseGod said:

There is not way 45-55% of their revenue comes from the gate.  The most aggressive projection is about 30%.

The owners have the ability to set the schedule, but a 50 game season with half their stars will be terrible, no one would watch it, and might be nixed before it even gets started because of baseball's antitrust exemption.

Which, frankly, is fine by me.  I'd rather watch fully loaded NBA teams play in the playoffs and then transition to football than two months of garbage "baseball."  I don't figure I'm alone in that sentiment.  We'll see what happens in 2021 I guess but I'll have lost a lot of enthusiasm for this game.

Well you might not even get the NBA now, players are not happy about being locked down in Orlando. That might not happen either. It could be down to the NHL and NFL

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3 minutes ago, azeri98 said:

Well you might not even get the NBA now, players are not happy about being locked down in Orlando. That might not happen either. It could be down to the NHL and NFL

It seems like they're a lot closer to resolving their issues than baseball.

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