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Question: does canceling the season outright put the owners in a better stance to defend the players’ “billion dollar” grievance claim than mandating a 50 game season?

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5 minutes ago, Weekday Warrior said:

Question: does canceling the season outright put the owners in a better stance to defend the players’ “billion dollar” grievance claim than mandating a 50 game season?

Boy I hope so.

I mean sure, there won't be any baseball games, but I sure will be excited to see ownership stick it to their players in court.

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1 minute ago, JE7HorseGod said:

Boy I hope so.

I mean sure, there won't be any baseball games, but I sure will be excited to see ownership stick it to their players in court.


I am not advocating this, just trying to deconstruct the thought process

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Just now, Weekday Warrior said:


I am not advocating this, just trying to deconstruct the thought process

They don't want a cancelled season, they want the players to not file a grievance.

The thought process appears to me to be creating as much hostility as possible.  MLB 2020 y'all!

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You can't have a season without spring training.  It's all. Put a fork into this season 

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Posted (edited)
On 3/14/2020 at 10:15 AM, shakestreet said:

No players will be helped by any type of delay ne ... IMO The season will be cancelled. 

DamnIT . 
 

I really hope we see football this year. 

Edited by shakestreet

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16 minutes ago, Weekday Warrior said:

Question: does canceling the season outright put the owners in a better stance to defend the players’ “billion dollar” grievance claim than mandating a 50 game season?

 

I would think if the Corona virus is not preventing teams from re-opening, they would lose any grievance.  What good reason could they use as a defense for cancelling the season.  Yesterday,  MLB started saying there are players that have come down with the virus.  This appears to be some legal posturing for any grievance.  Everything was going fine health wise when Manfred said there would 100% be a season.

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45 minutes ago, JE7HorseGod said:

They don't want a cancelled season, they want the players to not file a grievance.

The thought process appears to me to be creating as much hostility as possible.  MLB 2020 y'all!

MLB is stalling to where the a 50ish game season is the reasonable alternative. Right now a 50 game season would not be viewed as a good faith gesture in playing as many games as possible. Trevor Bauer outlined all this on Twitter. I know he is a little nuts but he makes a good argument

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How exactly do you see that happening? They are still bickering and its June 16

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Drastic measures like skipping Spring training? 

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The owners never intended to have a season which is why they don’t feel obligated to budge in negotiations. I think letting this year stay canceled is ok but the league and union need to but out a joint statement and maybe offer to help their local cities.

 

As far as the crown that’s encouraging the players to take less money— I challenge you to tell your boss you’ll take a pay cut of 70% for two months. Willingly. Let’s see if anyone does it. 

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35 minutes ago, duke of queens said:

MLB is stalling to where the a 50ish game season is the reasonable alternative. Right now a 50 game season would not be viewed as a good faith gesture in playing as many games as possible. Trevor Bauer outlined all this on Twitter. I know he is a little nuts but he makes a good argument

Agreed 100%.

To release a statement on "players health" and infection rates of Covid hours after Manfred's 180 and the next business day after the players suggest filing a grievance is painfully transparent.

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Players are to blame

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Covid and the players and the owners are to blame.  Mostly Covid.  It happened in March 

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Basically if we are still at Stage 1 in August baseball is done 

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4 minutes ago, Ecofolux said:

Players are to blame

Yes this makes sense.  The players are responsible for forcing the owners into floating nonstarter bad faith ideas like revenue share without knowing what revenue looks like, and holding ownership firm to proposing no more than 35% of their original salaries, and now are having the commissioner threaten that the season will be cancelled because they don't want to get paid.

If you say, "everyone takes equal blame" I don't agree, but I understand.

This take is just out to lunch.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, 89Topps said:

 

Are you certain that players are paid per game?

I thought I had read somewhere that players are entitled to their guaranteed contracts if the league plays a "championship season" or something to that effect, but it is not actually defined as 162 games.

That would lead me to believe the players technically could have demanded their entire guaranteed salary and did, in fact, negotiate a prorated salary.

I can't find details now though, so I may be mistaken.

 

13 hours ago, duke of queens said:

 To add, if they are getting paid per game than why would there need to be a pro-rated negotiation?  Shouldn't that already be in place?

 

All I know is that they get paid per game, but I'm not 100% certain how the salaries are defined and what the language includes. For all I know, it would be the set amount that is just broken up in installments that happen to be per game.

Below is an article that mentions they are paid per game. Admittedly, I'm not sure who the author is and it's validity, so take it for what it's worth.

https://www.natlawreview.com/article/season-flux-due-to-covid-19-major-league-baseball-players-and-owners-reach-agreement#:~:text=MLB salaries are paid on,their contractually-agreed upon salaries.

Edited by ThreadKiller

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34 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

 

All I know is that they get paid per game, but I'm not 100% certain how the salaries are defined and what the language includes. For all I know, it would be the set amount that is just broken up in installments that happen to be per game.

Below is an article that mentions they are paid per game. Admittedly, I'm not sure who the author is and it's validity, so take it for what it's worth.

https://www.natlawreview.com/article/season-flux-due-to-covid-19-major-league-baseball-players-and-owners-reach-agreement#:~:text=MLB salaries are paid on,their contractually-agreed upon salaries.

Thanks,  but than what does the agreement in March accomplish. Are they just confirming what is already known? I mean guys on the DL get paid. Same if they get demoted. I believe the only time they don't get paid is suspension or strike.

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32 minutes ago, duke of queens said:

Thanks,  but than what does the agreement in March accomplish. Are they just confirming what is already known? I mean guys on the DL get paid. Same if they get demoted. I believe the only time they don't get paid is suspension or strike.

 

It's a good question and I'm not really sure tbh.

I just think that the contracts were agreed upon under the assumption that the season is for 162 games with a postseason. Whatever that number is is then divided into game checks as a way of collecting the checks if that makes sense.  I would assume that if the season were to NOT be 162 games and were shortened for whatever reason, that those contracts would need to be revised. But I honestly, don't know with any certainty what language is in these contracts.

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If prorated salaries were the preexisting contractual default anyway where games are cancelled on account of disasters, what exactly was the quid pro quo the owners got in March for agreeing to service time and the $170 mil salary guarantee?

 

Seems like the March agreement was just an affirmation of everyone’s mutual desire to salvage a season if possible with a basic framework in place for doing so

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3 hours ago, Brooklyn Dude said:

I would think if the Corona virus is not preventing teams from re-opening, they would lose any grievance.  What good reason could they use as a defense for cancelling the season.  Yesterday,  MLB started saying there are players that have come down with the virus.  This appears to be some legal posturing for any grievance.  Everything was going fine health wise when Manfred said there would 100% be a season.

But now it looks like covid-19 has re-entered the whole scene again so it may well prevent a season.

Quote

According to an MLB letter obtained by the Associated Press, "several players and staff" have tested positive for COVID-19.

As the league and the union continue to bicker publicly over the financial aspects involved with staging a possible 2020 baseball season, COVID-19 diagnoses and hospitalizations have begun to spike again across the United States. It might simply be too dangerous to attempt to play baseball games at any point this summer or fall, even with zero fans in attendance. Consider that Astros manager Dusty Baker just turned 71 years old, and that half of all MLB umpires are 55 or older. Granted, some are noting that the release of this letter comes with questionable motives given that the owners seemingly want a shorter 48-60 game season that would start in late July or early August. They can point to the positive COVID-19 tests as reason to delay.

Source: Jon Lemire on Twitter                      Jun 15, 2020, 7:45 PM ET

The owners can point to it but it was the players getting it to start with.  The virus is a real player in these negotiations; not a made-up fantasy.

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4 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

But now it looks like covid-19 has re-entered the whole scene again so it may well prevent a season.

The owners can point to it but it was the players getting it to start with.  The virus is a real player in these negotiations; not a made-up fantasy.

 

Which MLB players have it and is it widespread ?    If it is widespread I would agree.

Gary Bettman said last night isolated cases would not prevent their league from playing.

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5 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

The owners can point to it but it was the players getting it to start with.  The virus is a real player in these negotiations; not a made-up fantasy.

I think the issue is not whether it exists or not, but the timing with which they're trying to leverage it.

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2 hours ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

 

All I know is that they get paid per game, but I'm not 100% certain how the salaries are defined and what the language includes. For all I know, it would be the set amount that is just broken up in installments that happen to be per game.

Below is an article that mentions they are paid per game. Admittedly, I'm not sure who the author is and it's validity, so take it for what it's worth.

https://www.natlawreview.com/article/season-flux-due-to-covid-19-major-league-baseball-players-and-owners-reach-agreement#:~:text=MLB salaries are paid on,their contractually-agreed upon salaries.

 

Thanks for that.  I had read that article at one point.  Interesting they say the players agreed to forego a law suit demanding their full contracts.  So, it must not be that cut and dry.

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Posted (edited)

Raising Covid19 is a natural response to the players’ $1 billion grievance threat.

I assume the players’ $1 billion calculation is the difference in prorated salaries between the 50 games the league might impose and the max number of possible games before Sep 27 had the league acted in what they say is good faith.

But the March agreement says days on the calendar is just one of multiple factors that go into setting a schedule. Economics is another factor that the owners rely on, but health and safety is another factor that the owners are entitled to invoke.

A $1 Billion dollar grievance threat is extremely heavy handed, so the players brought this on themselves.  If the owners wave off health and safety considerations they’re just strengthening the players’s monetary claim.

Edited by Weekday Warrior

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