The 7th Beatles

DeAndre Hopkins 2020 Outlook

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6 hours ago, BGDDYKWL said:

I don't see this trade being bad for Hopkins at all. As good as Watson is that offense stalled quite a bit, really struggled to stop the run, and was indescribably bad to start games. I expect Hopkins to be a locked and loaded WR1 this year. 

I agree with you. Alphas gonna alpha. Air raid or not, the best players command the ball, and that’s what he’s going to do. 

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On 3/27/2020 at 11:26 PM, bomont said:

Yep. I'm high on all AZ players this year. Well OK not the TE whoever the hell that is. They haven't had a great TE since.......maybe ever?

Can you blame them?  Their defense has been destroyed by otherwise unremarkable tight ends so often they've started to think that anyone can fill the position successfully😆 

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Posted (edited)
On 3/24/2020 at 1:33 AM, joshua18 said:

If Rice had gotten Hopkins’ volume...wow.


Well, he may have. We don’t know how many targets Rice received in the first seven years of his career. But from age 30-38 (minus one season in which he only played 2 games) Rice averaged 146 targets. Through his age 27 season, Nuk has averaged 159 (excluding his rookie season). Rice had 150 targets or more in 1993-96 and 1998 (1997 was his 2-game season). So even in his 30s in SF, Rice only averaged 13 fewer targets per season than Nuk has from ages 22-27. Rice even averaged 133 targets in his three seasons in Oakland (ages 39-41). The reality is, Rice may not have equaled Nuk’s targets, but getting a dozen more targets wasn’t going to make Rice’s numbers explode. 

And I am in no way equating Nuk with Rice. I am only dealing with the one statement I quoted above. 

Edited by Flyman75

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2 hours ago, Flyman75 said:


Well, he may have. We don’t know how many targets Rice received in the first seven years of his career. But from age 30-38 (minus one season in which he only played 2 games) Rice averaged 146 targets. Through his age 27 season, Nuk has averaged 159 (excluding his rookie season). Rice had 150 targets or more in 1993-96 and 1998 (1997 was his 2-game season). So even in his 30s in SF, Rice only averaged 13 fewer targets per season than Nuk has from ages 22-27. Rice even averaged 133 targets in his three seasons in Oakland (ages 39-41). The reality is, Rice may not have equaled Nuk’s targets, but getting a dozen more targets wasn’t going to make Rice’s numbers explode. 

And I am in no way equating Nuk with Rice. I am only dealing with the one statement I quoted above. 


You’re comparing age 30-38 Rice with prime Nuk? That says it all.
 

Even after age 30 Rice is far better than Nuk has ever been, despite seeing fewer targets...and again, in his prime Rice set the single-season TD record in only 12 games (broken in 2008 by Moss who needed 16 games to do so). 
 

Again, Nuk has averaged 166 targets/year since 2015. He got more than 120 in 2014 as second fiddle to Andre Johnson, and his rookie year was cut short by injury. 

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47 minutes ago, dontclapGonorrhea said:

All I know is, if Nuk plays 21 years as Rice did, some of Rice's records are going to be owned by Nuk.


he’ll need a couple HOF Qbs.  And an innovative HC ahead of the curve.   
 

watson

murray

kingsbury

 


Maybe so?

 

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4 minutes ago, Impreza178 said:


he’ll need a couple HOF Qbs.  And an innovative HC ahead of the curve.   
 

watson

murray

kingsbury

 


Maybe so?

 

 

Nuke is 27.

 

If he played 10 years with Kingsbury and Murray he could break some records.

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6 hours ago, joshua18 said:


You’re comparing age 30-38 Rice with prime Nuk? That says it all.
 

Even after age 30 Rice is far better than Nuk has ever been, despite seeing fewer targets...and again, in his prime Rice set the single-season TD record in only 12 games (broken in 2008 by Moss who needed 16 games to do so). 
 

Again, Nuk has averaged 166 targets/year since 2015. He got more than 120 in 2014 as second fiddle to Andre Johnson, and his rookie year was cut short by injury. 

Why do you keep bringing Rice into the conversation? Rice played in a completely different era and doesn't need anyone to champion him being the goat.

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9 hours ago, joshua18 said:


You’re comparing age 30-38 Rice with prime Nuk? That says it all.
 

Even after age 30 Rice is far better than Nuk has ever been, despite seeing fewer targets...and again, in his prime Rice set the single-season TD record in only 12 games (broken in 2008 by Moss who needed 16 games to do so). 
 

Again, Nuk has averaged 166 targets/year since 2015. He got more than 120 in 2014 as second fiddle to Andre Johnson, and his rookie year was cut short by injury. 


Lol. No, I’m not comparing Rice at any age with Nuk. You said that if Rice got Nuk’s looks...wow. And I’m showing you that he came pretty close. Want to look at Nuk’s best five years to-date, then look at Rices’s best five years...avg of 156. Again, close. 

I have one singular point: Rice’s targets weren’t that far off Nuk’s. It’s not like Nuk is averaging 160 while Rice averaged 120 or something. I’m not comparing talent or ability or whatever...I’m just pointing out that Rice’s targets weren’t far off Nuk’s. But if you want to get stuck on whatever to make yourself look better or more right, then knock yourself out. The bottom line is this...Nuk wasn’t worlds ahead of Rice in targets. 

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8 hours ago, devaster said:

Why do you keep bringing Rice into the conversation? Rice played in a completely different era and doesn't need anyone to champion him being the goat.


I was responding to someone who erroneously compared the 2. Nuk couldn’t hold Rice’s jockstrap.

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Just now, joshua18 said:


I was responding to someone who erroneously compared the 2. Nuk couldn’t hold Rice’s jockstrap.

He could- but why take the chance? Covid lives on plastic for 3 days afterall

 

 

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Nuk isn’t even in the discussion with Rice. Rice played in an era that was far less friendly to WRs and dominated with 11 consecutive 1,000 yard seasons and had the most yards in over half. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Gohawks said:

Nuk isn’t even in the discussion with Rice. Rice played in an era that was far less friendly to WRs and dominated with 11 consecutive 1,000 yard seasons and had the most yards in over half. 

He also played with 2 HOF qbs...one in the top 3 of all time.  And maybe the most brilliant offensive coach to ever live.   That team was silly how stacked they were.  

Nuk spent half his career playing with Ryan Mallett, TJ Yates, Brock, Matt Schaub and other scrubs.   All masterfully orchestrated by the incomparable Bill O Brien.

 

Edited by Impreza178
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26 minutes ago, Impreza178 said:

He also played with 2 HOF qbs...one in the top 3 of all time.  And maybe the most brilliant offensive coach to ever live.   That team was silly how stacked they were.  

Nuk spent half his career playing with Ryan Mallett, TJ Yates, Brock, Matt Schaub and other scrubs.   All masterfully orchestrated by the incomparable Bill O Brien.

 

 

Those are some of the worst QBs I've ever seen. Woof

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On 4/16/2020 at 1:18 PM, Gohawks said:

Nuk isn’t even in the discussion with Rice. Rice played in an era that was far less friendly to WRs and dominated with 11 consecutive 1,000 yard seasons and had the most yards in over half. 


Not to mention it was still predominantly a running league. In all the years rice had Montana and young they only broke 4000 passing yards two times. Some years Montana didn’t get to 3000 yards due to injuries but rice still got well over 1000 yards.
 

But rice was playing on the first team to use an offense that is still being used today. Before bill Walsh qbs just took arbitrary drop backs. Sometimes it was 5 steps sometimes it was 9. Walsh was the guy who told the qb to take 3-5-7 steps and designed timed routes around that. Seems archaic now but he was the first. I bet if nuk played then he woulda had some amazing seasons.. but there is only one GOAT

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Only 1 WR (Brandon Marshall in 2012) has been a top 12 WR the first year with a new team. OBJ and

 

Should have been faded last year based on this, I will go with data and avoid Hopkins this season.

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Nuk is going to ball and still take these defensive Backs to school. Kylar Murray is of course no Deshaun Watson, but he is no slouch and still learning and Hopkins will make him better.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, turner46 said:

Only 1 WR (Brandon Marshall in 2012) has been a top 12 WR the first year with a new team. OBJ and

 

Should have been faded last year based on this, I will go with data and avoid Hopkins this season.

What about Randy Moss? Didnt he break the WR TD record after transferring to a new team?

 

Brandin Cooks going to LA too.

 

Where did you get your info?

Edited by bhawks489

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2 minutes ago, bhawks489 said:

What about Randy Moss? Didnt he break the WR TD record after transferring to a new team?

 

He most certainly did, the data obviously didn't go that far back that I seen, I just seen it tweeted.

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On 5/29/2020 at 11:16 AM, turner46 said:

Only 1 WR (Brandon Marshall in 2012) has been a top 12 WR the first year with a new team. OBJ and

 

Should have been faded last year based on this, I will go with data and avoid Hopkins this season.

Brown led the league twice in receptions and yards and got 1250+ yards 6 seasons in a row and the most impressive thing he’s done in his life is he got Logan Paul to drop a decent track. 

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16 hours ago, Gohawks said:

Brown led the league twice in receptions and yards and got 1250+ yards 6 seasons in a row and the most impressive thing he’s done in his life is he got Logan Paul to drop a decent track. 

 

Straight 🔥

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On 5/29/2020 at 2:16 PM, turner46 said:

Only 1 WR (Brandon Marshall in 2012) has been a top 12 WR the first year with a new team. OBJ and

 

Should have been faded last year based on this, I will go with data and avoid Hopkins this season.

 

On 5/29/2020 at 7:40 PM, bhawks489 said:

What about Randy Moss? Didnt he break the WR TD record after transferring to a new team?

 

Brandin Cooks going to LA too.

 

Where did you get your info?

 

Terrell Owens going for 1200yds-12tds his first year in philly and first year in Dallas had to be top 12 too or plaxico buress going for 1200 and 7 or Wes welkers first year with the pats.

maybe that stat info just goes back to Marshall’s first year with the jets? Which isn’t as impressive since it’s only been like 4 years. But if it goes back to his first year with the bears it would be a little more impressive making it about 8 years since a wr who played for a different team made too 12 in their first season with that team. Either way it’s a good reminder that WRs going to a new team and dominating the first year is rare and usually only done by the elite which we all think DHop is but the odds are against him. I guess the real bad news with this info is for Stefan Diggs supporters

 

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7 hours ago, Stonej14 said:

 

 

Terrell Owens going for 1200yds-12tds his first year in philly and first year in Dallas had to be top 12 too or plaxico buress going for 1200 and 7 or Wes welkers first year with the pats.

maybe that stat info just goes back to Marshall’s first year with the jets? Which isn’t as impressive since it’s only been like 4 years. But if it goes back to his first year with the bears it would be a little more impressive making it about 8 years since a wr who played for a different team made too 12 in their first season with that team. Either way it’s a good reminder that WRs going to a new team and dominating the first year is rare and usually only done by the elite which we all think DHop is but the odds are against him. I guess the real bad news with this info is for Stefan Diggs supporters

 

It's terrible for both when you factor in that neither of them are going to get much practice time with the QBs. Sure, there's videos of Diggs and Allen building "chemistry" by practicing together and i'm sure Hopkins and Murray have likely been in contact but it's not close to enough. Without being able to run through in game scenarios in actual practice makes throwing the ball around together on a field mean very little. QBs and WRs are extremely dependent on chemistry and it's tough to justify taking Hopkins as a top 5 WR because of this. Maybe if teams were able to practice normally it would be a little easier but as it stands i'll have to pass.

I'm sure Hopkins will get his regardless. I don't see how he gets under 1,000 if healthy no matter what the situation is. However, he would need to match his last season stats to have a shot at a top 5 finish and that's just something that is tough to buy. Especially when you factor in that Murray isn't going to be the most WR friendly QB. A good amount of TD poaching at the GL and he will still be putting up around 3,700 air yards IMO. 

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22 minutes ago, Gohawks said:

It's terrible for both when you factor in that neither of them are going to get much practice time with the QBs. Sure, there's videos of Diggs and Allen building "chemistry" by practicing together and i'm sure Hopkins and Murray have likely been in contact but it's not close to enough. Without being able to run through in game scenarios in actual practice makes throwing the ball around together on a field mean very little. QBs and WRs are extremely dependent on chemistry and it's tough to justify taking Hopkins as a top 5 WR because of this. Maybe if teams were able to practice normally it would be a little easier but as it stands i'll have to pass.

I'm sure Hopkins will get his regardless. I don't see how he gets under 1,000 if healthy no matter what the situation is. However, he would need to match his last season stats to have a shot at a top 5 finish and that's just something that is tough to buy. Especially when you factor in that Murray isn't going to be the most WR friendly QB. A good amount of TD poaching at the GL and he will still be putting up around 3,700 air yards IMO. 

You don't think that adding Hopkins along with a year 2 improvement that Murray will even crack 4000 yards? 

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