affliction

Ronald Jones 2020 Outlook

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1 minute ago, JE7HorseGod said:

I mean, saying that a bustdown Shady wasn't able to play 16 is hardly the strongest indictment that Kareem Hunt can thrive in any system.

There will be younger, cheaper options for teams to choose from in the second round if they want a back than on the wishes and hopes that a guy who had 1700 yards three years ago under Reid and since then has been injured or suspended recaptures lighting in a bottle.

People are living in the past on this guy as much as Josh Gordon IMO.  Let it go Elsa.

 

 

The Bucs don't have a 5yr window with Brady. i doubt they even have a 3yr window, so drafting that rb  in the 2nd is not going to help you with brady as the QB in 2020 and 2021.😉

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Just now, dashoe said:

 

The Bucs don't have a 5yr window with Brady. i doubt they even have a 3yr window, so drafting that rb  in the 2nd is not going to help you with brady as the QB in 2020 and 2021.😉

LOL, if rookie backs can automatically not pass protect well enough to be on the field, than what do you have to hang your hat on with Hunt?

His rookie year WAS the pro bowl year.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, JE7HorseGod said:

LOL, if rookie backs can automatically not pass protect well enough to be on the field, than what do you have to hang your hat on with Hunt?

His rookie year WAS the pro bowl year.

 

I think you don't realize you are defeating your own argument. 😂

Hunt was terrible at pass protect his first season which is why West would come in on 2min drills and passing downs consistently. Pass protection is the reason why hunt couldnt beat Spencer Ware in training camp. Reid had to alter his play calling schemes to compensate for Hunt's liability in pass protection.

How many rookies make the Pro Bowl  and win the rushing title in their 1st season? So that sort of negates your "talent" point against Hunt. 

So basically you are hoping the Bucs find the next Hunt in the 2nd and the irony isyou are discussing using a 2nd to pick a rb  for Tampa in the Rojo thread  and Rojo was taken in the. . .2nd rd. . 🤣

Edited by dashoe

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

I think you don't realize you are defeating your own argument. 😂

Hunt was terrible at pass protect his first season which is why West would come in on 2min drills and passing downs consistently. 

How many rookies make the Pro Bowl  and win the rushing title in their 1st season? So that sort of negates your "talent" point against Hunt. 

So basically you are hoping the Bucs find the next Hunt in the 2nd😙

The same West who was out touched 116 to 325?  

I think basically what you are hoping is that you have someone currently, in 2020, who will be 2-3 years younger, on a cheaper contract who produces more ROI for your team than a guy who hasn't touched the ball more than 10 times since Thanksgiving of 2018, versus your idea that he's worth that pick, plus more money given halcyon dreams of yesteryear.

Maybe some team trades for him and it works out.  But I think it's more likely he's back to carrying Chubb's jock.

Edited by JE7HorseGod

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1 minute ago, JE7HorseGod said:

The same West who was out touched 116 to 325?  

I think basically what you are hoping is that you have some currently, in 2020, who will be 2-3 years younger, on a cheaper contract who produces more ROI for your team than

a guy who hasn't touched the ball more than 10 times since Thanksgiving of 2018, versus your idea that he's worth that pick, plus more money given halcyon dreams of yesteryear.

Maybe some team trades for him and it works out.  But I think it's more likely he's back to carrying Chubb's jock.

 

Why are you making up false data? i don't understand using falsehoods to express an opinion in a debate. Hunt played 8 games for CLE in 2019  and had 87 touches which is  an average of 10.9 touches per game; so this refutes your he hasnt touched the ball more than 10x since 2018 falsehood. .  he tocuhed the ball 87 times.

More importantly  he had  44 targets vs Chubb's 17  and he had 3TD's vs Chubbs 2TD's in that 8 game span.

 

If Hunt was as worthless as you claim then why would the Browns place a 2nd on him? Your rationale simply doesnt add up to the facts. You don't place a 2nd on a rb that you plan on using as a mere COP backup.  Maybe you didnt follow the browns backfield last season but Chubbs PPR fantasy value fell off of a cliff when the playoffs started because Hunt was getting the valuable targets and work in the redzone.

I'm not sure why people take a position another player has to suck because they like a different player.

Hunt doesnt have to suck for Chubb to be great 😂

 

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3 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

Why are you making up false data? i don't understand using falsehoods to express an opinion in a debate. Hunt played 8 games for CLE in 2019  and had 87 touches which is  an average of 10.9 touches per game; so this refutes your he hasnt touched the ball more than 10x since 2018 falsehood. .  he tocuhed the ball 87 times.

More importantly  he had  44 targets vs Chubb's 17  and he had 3TD's vs Chubbs 2TD's in that 8 game span.

 

If Hunt was as worthless as you claim then why would the Browns place a 2nd on him? Your rationale simply doesnt add up to the facts. You don't place a 2nd on a rb that you plan on using as a mere COP backup.  Maybe you didnt follow the browns backfield last season but Chubbs PPR fantasy value fell off of a cliff when the playoffs started because Hunt was getting the valuable targets and work in the redzone.

I'm not sure why people take a position another player has to suck because they like a different player.

Hunt doesnt have to suck for Chubb to be great 😂

 

You're right, I'm sorry, more than 13 touches since Thanksgiving of 2018, those three have made him a veritable workhorse.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HuntKa00/gamelog/2019/

They tendered him at that rate because it cost them nothing to do so?

I'm not saying he "sucks" but I'm also not saying a 25 year old back who had one great year three years ago and since then has been injured, suspended or a COP back is worth a second rounder considering that this is a great skills position class, that you get get a younger guy for cheaper at that rate and then get your pass protector (a la West) if you need one for less.  It just doesn't make sense.

At least, not for people who don't have him in some dynasty fantasy football league and are asking Santa for some return from his 2017-2018 highlight reels.

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9 minutes ago, JE7HorseGod said:

You're right, I'm sorry, more than 13 touches since Thanksgiving of 2018, those three have made him a veritable workhorse.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HuntKa00/gamelog/2019/

They tendered him at that rate because it cost them nothing to do so?

I'm not saying he "sucks" but I'm also not saying a 25 year old back who had one great year three years ago and since then has been injured, suspended or a COP back is worth a second rounder considering that this is a great skills position class, that you get get a younger guy for cheaper at that rate and then get your pass protector (a la West) if you need one for less.  It just doesn't make sense.

At least, not for people who don't have him in some dynasty fantasy football league and are asking Santa for some return from his 2017-2018 highlight reels.

 

 13 touches in 2019, is that the new math? 

I count 87 touches over 8 games. I guess based in the new wording of your last post 87 touches is MORE than 13 😂

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Just now, dashoe said:

 

 13 touches in 2019, is that the new math? 

I count 87 touches over 8 games. I guess based in the new wording of your last post 87 touches is MORE than 13 😂

I can see why you selectively retired, it must be exasperating having that much trouble with context.

I obviously meant 13 touches in a game.  C'mon.

I'll leave this derailment of the thread now.  Good luck with your hopemeal that someone trades a second for Hunt.

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Did I just read the Rams cut Gurley?

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3 minutes ago, markrc99 said:

Did I just read the Rams cut Gurley?

 

yep go bucs!

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Just now, kmoore1521 said:

 

yep go bucs

 

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Posted (edited)

Well Barbers gone. Let see if they draft a back or pick another one up in FA. I’m sure they will 

Edited by affliction

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Nothing here since the draft? Everything in the Vaughn thread; but there’s not much to say there once you look at the Vaughn tape. Here are some random thoughts on RoJo:

 

Last year RoJo had 170 carries and 40 targets/30 receptions. I think RoJo goes from 170 to more like 220 carries. And gets similar or more passing game work as last year in the 40 target range. Last year Michel had 250 carries and 20 targets for Brady, as reference. 220 and 40 as middle range projections for RoJo seem fair. That still leaves room for Vaughn, Ogunbowale, Calais etc to split 150+ carries and 70+ targets amongst themselves. Also seems fair.

 

I think that’s great volume to be projected as a solid RB2 this year. But RoJos real upside to me lies in 2 things... 1) how well he pass blocks and does in the receiving game, because if he does well he could stay on the field more and receive more targets and 2) whether he is the trusted goalline RB and can rack up some TDs that the rest of the offense really earns.
 

If those two things happen, and his volume bumps up even a little more, and he hits a double digit TD number due to goalline usage, RoJo legitimately has RB1 upside this season. No joke.

 

RoJos downside lies in getting on the bad side of coaching, missing blocks and assignments, fumbling, being replaced. I think these are all possibilities, but not strong enough ones to not invest in a RoJo at his current price. He’s a steal for his upside and for the sneaky likelihood that he lives up to it, or near it. And for his likely outcome that isn’t just upside.
 

Here are a RoJo’s stats by year of his playing career since his Sr year of High School, which he played having turned 17 years old just weeks before opening game in 2014. He was also 17 all the way up until about 2 weeks before the first game of his 2015 freshman season at USC. That’s wild that he did the following there and now in TB as such an underage talent at every juncture...

 

Age 18 - 2015 - USC - 153 carries, 987 yds, 6.5ypc, 8TD, 7 receptions, 39 yds, 5.6ypr, 1TD

Age 19 - 2016 - USC - 177 carries, 1082 yds, 6.1ypc, 12TD, 11 receptions, 76 yds, 6.9ypr, 1TD

Age 20 - 2017 - USC - 261 carries, 1550 yds, 5.9ypc, 19TD, 14 receptions, 187 yds, 13.4ypr, 1TD

Age 21 - 2018 - BUCS - 23 carries, 44 yds, 1.9ypc, 1TD, 7 receptions, 33 yds, 4.7ypr, 0TD

Age 22 - 2019 - BUCS - 172 carries, 724 yds, 4.2ypc, 6TD, 31 receptions, 309 yds, 10.0ypr, 0TD

[150.8 pts 0.5ppr, RB26 overall]
 

PROJECTION:

Age 23 - 2020 - BUCS - 220 carries, 990 yds, 4.5ypc, 9TD, 40 targets, 30 receptions, 310 yds, 10.0 ypr, 2TD.

[211.0 pts 0.5ppr, RB13 overall]

 

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I think there's enough on this guy to say its not happening at this point, but i suppose he's worth still discussing since he theoretically tops their depth chart.   I still feel like Tampa's just waiting on a Carlos Hyde or another FA to just drop his price.  

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6 minutes ago, BrianM said:

I think there's enough on this guy to say its not happening at this point, but i suppose he's worth still discussing since he theoretically tops their depth chart.   I still feel like Tampa's just waiting on a Carlos Hyde or another FA to just drop his price.  

There is “enough” on this guy at age 22 to decide he’s not worth anything?  What a world we live in now.

I’m with Lost in thinking he’s an interesting discounted player in re-drafts.

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He’s the golden ticket if Vaughn ever goes down 

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42 minutes ago, BMcP said:

There is “enough” on this guy at age 22 to decide he’s not worth anything?  What a world we live in now.

 

 

Welp, he's been jagworthy thusfar, of course the rookie season was a complete wash, but I'm the type that holds that against him.   The depth chart was bare and he couldnt even crack the lineup- bad sign.   Last year he wound up in the doghouse.  

If he gets more touches this year, i still feel like i'll cringe if i had to start him.   Its a bit philosophical for me here too- i used to invest in safer bench RB's who I felt would get touches for insurance, but i changed that up recently and i feel i've done better with the change. 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, BrianM said:

 

Welp, he's been jagworthy thusfar, of course the rookie season was a complete wash, but I'm the type that holds that against him.   The depth chart was bare and he couldnt even crack the lineup- bad sign.   Last year he wound up in the doghouse.  

If he gets more touches this year, i still feel like i'll cringe if i had to start him.   Its a bit philosophical for me here too- i used to invest in safer bench RB's who I felt would get touches for insurance, but i changed that up recently and i feel i've done better with the change. 

Please - a guy who averages 4.2/10.0 behind that line last year with the TO King at QB is a JAG at 22?!  To say nothing of the stacked boxes he faced or the number of tackles he broke?

Edited by BMcP
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If the Bucs sign Davonte Freeman after team facilities open back up and they can have him in for a workout, then can we see that the writing is on the wall for Ronald Jones?

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4 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

If the Bucs sign Davonte Freeman after team facilities open back up and they can have him in for a workout, then can we see that the writing is on the wall for Ronald Jones?

Yep.  Devonta would certainly confirm that.

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11 minutes ago, BMcP said:

Please - a guy who averages 4.2/10.0 behind that line last year with the TO King at QB is a JAG at 22?!  To say nothing of the stacked boxes he faced or the number of tackles he broke?


Why in the world would he face stacked boxes with Godwin and Evans on the outside? 
 

Rojo <<<<< a JAG

 

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5 minutes ago, joshua18 said:


Why in the world would he face stacked boxes with Godwin and Evans on the outside? 
 

Rojo <<<<< a JAG

 

Don’t know - doesn’t change the fact that he ran against stacked boxes about 31% of the time -sixth-most frequently in the league.

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Can anyone point me towards the direction of one credible analyst or scout that thinks Ronald Jones is good (that wasn't written before he was drafted)? This isn't a loaded question, I'm genuinely curious.

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6 minutes ago, paulwall29 said:

Can anyone point me towards the direction of one credible analyst or scout that thinks Ronald Jones is good (that wasn't written before he was drafted)? This isn't a loaded question, I'm genuinely curious.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theeagleswire.usatoday.com/2018/03/10/eagles-select-usc-rb-ronald-jones-in-latest-nfl-com-mock-draft/amp/

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1 minute ago, BMcP said:

 

You didn't read the entirety of my post. I'm interested in what analysts and scouts think today. You can pull up scouting reports on Ki Jana Carter from his draft year and they're stellar.

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