affliction

Ronald Jones 2020 Outlook

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47 minutes ago, Ddam2013 said:

1. “Vaughn is a better receiver” 

Jones was tied for 3rd amongst RBs in YPR only behind Ekeler and DJ (2 RBs who play WR quite a bit). So to say Vaughn is going to be the RB to own because he’s a better as a pass catcher is false as Jones had more catches and yards in the NFL than Vaughn did last year in college.

In my list he's 12. Can you check that stat and see what I did wrong? Maybe you meant with x minimum targets/recs but then at least Miles Sanders should also qualify.
In any case, you're right that RoJo is not a bad pass catcher. The fact that Vaughn had less is not surprising, but let's judge him by similar standards; he's in the top-15 of Y/R for College RBs (9.6, just under RoJo). So Vaughn also isn't bad - still, Jones proved it in the pros. Slight advantage Jones.

1 hour ago, Ddam2013 said:

2. “Jones can’t pass protect”

Vaughn was more physically and mentally mature than almost all of his opponents last season, add in the fact that college schemes aren’t nearly as complicated as NFL schemes I refuse to believe this one as well,  if/when he proves it in the NFL I’ll believe it but for now to say his pass pro is better than Jones’ would be an opinion that cant be backed up.

Sorry, here you lose me. You try to debunk a myth on Jones and then you go off on Vaughn? That doesn't work.
The better argument is that RBs with bad pass protection have made it before in the NFL - you can also tell me that PFF's rankings on this are often disputed and generally bunk, or (like @BMcP that Arians doesn't use RBs for pass pro). Your final conclusion though I share, we just don't know. I call it a draw.

1 hour ago, Ddam2013 said:

3. “Vaughn is BA’s pick”

Wrong they are both Jason Licht’s picks. Does BA have some pull in the draft room, yeah all coaches do but ultimately the GM makes the pick and Licht picked both. 

Again it's a draw. So that's 2 draws and one slight advantage, so I guess the conclusion is clear, right?

1 hour ago, Ddam2013 said:

Rojo fantasy RB1 in 2020 

giphy.gif

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Next to James Conner easiest road to profit for a RB. He has to fall on his face (possible) to not get at least 50 percent of the carries.

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17 hours ago, Ddam2013 said:

When you compare what Jones did at 22 against NFL competition and what Vaughn did at 22 against CFB competition how is Jones not the favorite here.

Rookie fever hits every year and I think the lack of other sports is causing It to be more exaggerated this year. There’s 3 pretty common arguments as to why Vaughn is the back to own in this backfield.

1. “Vaughn is a better receiver” 

Jones was tied for 3rd amongst RBs in YPR only behind Ekeler and DJ (2 RBs who play WR quite a bit). So to say Vaughn is going to be the RB to own because he’s a better as a pass catcher is false as Jones had more catches and yards in the NFL than Vaughn did last year in college.

2. “Jones can’t pass protect”

Vaughn was more physically and mentally mature than almost all of his opponents last season, add in the fact that college schemes aren’t nearly as complicated as NFL schemes I refuse to believe this one as well,  if/when he proves it in the NFL I’ll believe it but for now to say his pass pro is better than Jones’ would be an opinion that cant be backed up.

3. “Vaughn is BA’s pick”

Wrong they are both Jason Licht’s picks. Does BA have some pull in the draft room, yeah all coaches do but ultimately the GM makes the pick and Licht picked both. 


Rojo fantasy RB1 in 2020 

I’m assuming that was a Freudian slip of some sort?

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15 hours ago, Ddam2013 said:

“... 2. “Jones can’t pass protect”

Vaughn was more physically and mentally mature than almost all of his opponents last season, add in the fact that college schemes aren’t nearly as complicated as NFL schemes I refuse to believe this one as well,  if/when he proves it in the NFL I’ll believe it but for now to say his pass pro is better than Jones’ would be an opinion that cant be backed up. ...”


Vandy asked Vaughn to pass-protect & from what I saw he did well. But just as with his receiving skills & ability in space, set up for success. The most recent piece on Jones I view as very positive: 

Jones is up to 225 pounds and has been working diligently with trainer Luke Neal on his pass catching this offseason, Luke Easterling of SI.com reports. The third-year back has some extra motivation in the form of the Buccaneers' selection of Vanderbilt product Ke'Shawn Vaughn in the third round of April's draft, with the latter certainly a threat to put a dent into Jones' workload. The projected competition aside, Jones was likely to focus on improving his pass-catching acumen this offseason anyhow, considering his limitations in that area last season often kept him off the field on third downs in favor of Dare Ogunbowale. Neal recently posted multiple videos of Jones working on his routes on his Twitter account, including one with the USC product running a deep post and making an impressive catch about 20 yards downfield.” https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/2180329/ronald-jones

It’s that first part, suggesting he’s not done! He was told his height to weight ratio had to be addressed, clearly the man is dialed. Those receiving drills vs air, that’s, I don’t know what that is. He’s catching with his hands, but look at him, he’s huge!! Ronald Jones is a freakin’ load! The latter part of the quote pertaining to his “pass-catching” suggests what exactly? Whether he’s a route-runner, (accordingly, he isn’t) or whether he can catch the ball at all? 

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Bucs RB's have been just about the worst backfield to have shares in for the last 10 years outside of two seasons of Doug Martin.

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4 minutes ago, devaster said:

Bucs RB's have been just about the worst backfield to have shares in for the last 10 years outside of two seasons of Doug Martin.

True - but you can’t blame us for thinking this is a new time to be alive in Tampa.

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3 hours ago, markrc99 said:


Jones is up to 225 pounds 

This actually scares me more than Vaughn to be honest. RBs putting on weight is almost always a bad thing.

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57 minutes ago, Ddam2013 said:

This actually scares me more than Vaughn to be honest. RBs putting on weight is almost always a bad thing.

He bulked up to 220+ LAST offseason, so no worries. But you’re right to not be scared of Vaughn.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, devaster said:

“Bucs RB's have been just about the worst backfield to have shares in for the last 10 years outside of two seasons of Doug Martin.”


I wasn’t aware of that & in part may explain Jones’ favorable adp. He’s a player that needed to get bigger & stronger & did. His latest note suggests he’s maintaining the same regiment & has added more. This is get the body ready for the workload 101 stuff. Could be wrong but if he avoids serious injury, I think 250 touches is a reasonable expectation. Yeah, Brady could throw 600 passes, but the Bucs have to run the football. He won’t turn the ball over like Winston did, but he doesn’t have the ability to extend plays either. Nor is it a good idea to subject him to that kind of punishment. A big factor padding that high figure is that Brady isn’t a quick-strike passer, he’s more about sustained drives & throwing short. Last year New England run about 100 more plays than did the Chiefs. I think they aim for better balance, more of a 55/45 run-pass split & as others have already said, a healthy portion of that 55 is going to the RBs. 

Edited by markrc99

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14 hours ago, LostAtSea said:

He bulked up to 220+ LAST offseason, so no worries. But you’re right to not be scared of Vaughn.

Yeah, Ronald Jones barely out-touched Peyton Barber last season but you shouldn’t be scared of Vaughn.  Where do you people come up with this stuff?

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2 hours ago, markrc99 said:


I wasn’t aware of that & in part may explain Jones’ favorable adp. He’s a player that needed to get bigger & stronger & did. His latest note suggests he’s maintaining the same regiment & has added more. This is get the body ready for the workload 101 stuff. Could be wrong but if he avoids serious injury, I think 250 touches is a reasonable expectation. Yeah, Brady could throw 600 passes, but the Bucs have to run the football. He won’t turn the ball over like Winston did, but he doesn’t have the ability to extend plays either. Nor is it a good idea to subject him to that kind of punishment. A big factor padding that high figure is that Brady isn’t a quick-strike passer, he’s more about sustained drives & throwing short. Last year New England run about 100 more plays than did the Chiefs. I think they aim for better balance, more of a 55/45 run-pass split & as others have already said, a healthy portion of that 55 is going to the RBs. 

Everything we have heard is that Brady isn't bringing his offense to Tampa, like Peyton did in Denver. All the reports have been Brady learning Arians' offense and catering a bit to Brady. They will still be a pass-heavy offense.

And Ronald Jones likely won't see the field as their receiving back.

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On 5/14/2020 at 8:44 PM, Ddam2013 said:

When you compare what Jones did at 22 against NFL competition and what Vaughn did at 22 against CFB competition how is Jones not the favorite here.

Is this a real life?  Ke’shawn Vaughn played at Vanderbilt behind a bottom 3 offensive line against SEC defenses.  Vanderbilt had 10 passing TD’s on the entire season and only 2064 passing yards.  To say he was the entire offense is an understatement.

 

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some Interesting 2019 RoJo stats from PFR

4.2 YPC and 5.1 per touch (Barber averaged 3.1 🤢)

2.4 yards after contact per carry (higher than Zeke and Kamara to name a few)

4th in the league in attempts per broken tackle (7.5)

200 yards called back on random penalties (pretty useless stat obviously)

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Posted (edited)
On 5/14/2020 at 9:38 PM, Magoo said:

Next to James Conner easiest road to profit for a RB. He has to fall on his face (possible) to not get at least 50 percent of the carries.

Bingo 

making a grave mistake thinking a third round pick equals immediate majority workload under Arians.     They took Jones early second I believe?  And SAT him the entire year.  Arians certainly doesn’t give priority seating based on draft position.  He gives tough love and if you respond well— more work the subsequent year.   

Rojo leading the bucs backs in touches is almost a given in 2020.  They’ve raved about his progress and Rojos tape was very flashy in 2019.   

 It wouldn’t surprise me to see Dare become the trusted pass protector and catcher of dump-offs to have the second most touches behind Rojo.  

The rookie fever on Vaughn is about to get a cold shower-  I’ll be looking to nab him cheap after an impatient owner gives up at some point in 2020.  

Beyond 2020 it’s all up in the air....

Edited by Impreza178

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If the Bucs were so high on Ronald Jones, why take Vaughn at all?

And Arians has not traditionally favored a committee.  He likes one back to do it all.  

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2 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

If the Bucs were so high on Ronald Jones, why take Vaughn at all?

And Arians has not traditionally favored a committee.  He likes one back to do it all.  


Teams draft rbs-  is this news? 
 

only the Vaughn truthers seem to think this implies immediate workhorse status and Rojos demise.  
 

seems unlikely.  Best you can hope for is a late season surge and close to a 50/50 share with Rojo 

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Oh I can hope for just about anything I want...

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If memory serves, someone posted that Tampa ran the ball 400 times last year (which I view as a conservative figure for 2020), even if Jones were to take 250 of those, who is this other secret player we don’t seem to know about? Oh, there, there isn’t one? They um, drafted a guy? What part of that basic equation is so impossible to understand?

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1 minute ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Oh I can hope for just about anything I want...

Hope in one hand and Vaughn in the other...  see which give u 1000 total yards first 👀 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, markrc99 said:

If memory serves, someone posted that Tampa ran the ball 400 times last year (which I view as a conservative figure for 2020), even if Jones were to take 250 of those, who is this other secret player we don’t seem to know about? Oh, there, there isn’t one? They um, drafted a guy? What part of that basic equation is so impossible to understand?

 Vaughn

Very similar to RJ, so the suckage should be about the same.  I see them throwing and then throwing some more, relying on Jones and Vaughn for 3 yds and a cloud of dust just to give Brady's arm a break.   Brady is on a mission.

Edited by Sivaro

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Vaughn was at least drafted by Arians. Ronald Jones was inherited by the Arians regime, so he has no loyalty to Jones.

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1 hour ago, devaster said:

‘Everything we have heard is that Brady isn't bringing his offense to Tampa, like Peyton did in Denver. All the reports have been Brady learning Arians' offense and catering a bit to Brady. They will still be a pass-heavy offense. And Ronald Jones likely won't see the field as their receiving back.“


Tom Brady wasn’t like Peyton Manning, not in that respect. Tampa’s offense won’t change, Brady will be the one learning the terminology. But there is no way they’re going to subject him to the punishment they did Winston. Even to a lesser extent would still be insane! 

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Ronald Jones is much bigger this year.  225 + in lbs.  That is a good thing as it makes him a bigger speed bump for blitzing defenses.

 

Vaughn if anyone is the better buy in this offense , I agree.  But he was also drafted for his blocking skills.   Both backs will probably end up with a 200/ 650 / 4 TD and 1 rec TD.  If they do not get benched by Tom.

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59 minutes ago, devaster said:

Vaughn was at least drafted by Arians. Ronald Jones was inherited by the Arians regime, so he has no loyalty to Jones.

 

The GM arguably has more say and power than the coach (depends on situation), but Licht drafted both RBs. This will be a 65-35 split in one way or another, and I'm leaning RoJo who has 3 years XP vs a rookie with no proper offseason.

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