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BrianM

Teddy Bridgewater 2020 Outlook

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Witht he offensive minded coaches in place and a terrible defense, I am buying the Panthers offense, DJ - Teddy combo. 

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1 minute ago, Impreza178 said:

Because I’ve seen him throw downfield lol.   He’s slow to read, slow to work through progressions, and doesn’t have the arm strength to make up for it.  With the Saints offensive line and 2 dominant weapons over the middle— it’s not an issue...for a short stint at least.   Put TB behind a mediocre to poor O-line like in Minny...you get 83 sacks in 28 games.    
 

Drew Brees more than makes up questionable arm strength with anticipation and mastery of his offense.  He has a lightning fast mental processor that Teddy simply doesn’t.   That’s ingrained as part of a persons liquid intelligence.    Comparing Brees and Teddy is laughable.    

Wait a minute - he’s definitely skillful at both reading defenses and going through his progressions.  I’m not sure what you’re seeing differently when you watch him.  He has a quick release, good vision and he’s effective on straight dropbacks - to the tune of tenth-best in EPA/attempt.

I’m trying to explain that the Saints last season did not have any semblance of a vertical passing game - whether it was Brees or Bridge behind center.  When you have the likes of Thomas and Cook roaming the middle, and Ted. Ginn. Junior. is your lone deep threat (whenever he was actually able to suit up), the scheme choice made a lot of sense.  None of that amounts to proof positive that Bridgewater couldn’t succeed in a more aggressive, downfield scheme.

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7 minutes ago, BMcP said:

Wait a minute - he’s definitely skillful at both reading defenses and going through his progressions.  I’m not sure what you’re seeing differently when you watch him.  He has a quick release, good vision and he’s effective on straight dropbacks - to the tune of tenth-best in EPA/attempt.

I’m trying to explain that the Saints last season did not have any semblance of a vertical passing game - whether it was Brees or Bridge behind center.  When you have the likes of Thomas and Cook roaming the middle, and Ted. Ginn. Junior. is your lone deep threat (whenever he was actually able to suit up), the scheme choice made a lot of sense.  None of that amounts to proof positive that Bridgewater couldn’t succeed in a more aggressive, downfield scheme.


90% of qbs in the league can make one read and accurately distribute the ball when given time.   Game manager type stuff.   
 

CMAC will have a whale of a season.

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Just now, Impreza178 said:


90% of qbs in the league can make one read and accurately distribute the ball when given time.   Game manager type stuff.   
 

CMAC will have a whale of a season.

Only 73% of his passes went to his first read - below the 77% league average.  He’s not just making “one read” and flinging it.

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2 minutes ago, BMcP said:

Only 73% of his passes went to his first read - below the 77% league average.  He’s not just making “one read” and flinging it.

Whack A Mole with stats is fun

Give game manager time + elite options receiving  = impressive run for short stint.    Happens over and again.  Then some poor team signs him for big money...only to see why the last team let him walk.   
 

we can disagree here.   Time will tell

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2 minutes ago, Impreza178 said:

Whack A Mole with stats is fun

Give game manager time + elite options receiving  = impressive run for short stint.    Happens over and again.  Then some poor team signs him for big money...only to see why the last team let him walk.   
 

we can disagree here.   Time will tell

I agree to disagree.  Though I’m not sure why citing real-world statistics to support my claims is frowned upon.

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1 hour ago, BMcP said:

Wait a minute - he’s definitely skillful at both reading defenses and going through his progressions.  I’m not sure what you’re seeing differently when you watch him.  He has a quick release, good vision and he’s effective on straight dropbacks - to the tune of tenth-best in EPA/attempt.

I’m trying to explain that the Saints last season did not have any semblance of a vertical passing game - whether it was Brees or Bridge behind center.  When you have the likes of Thomas and Cook roaming the middle, and Ted. Ginn. Junior. is your lone deep threat (whenever he was actually able to suit up), the scheme choice made a lot of sense.  None of that amounts to proof positive that Bridgewater couldn’t succeed in a more aggressive, downfield scheme.

Agree 100% with this.   Dak is someone who I consider a game manager and he's good for fantasy.   Teddy doesn't run as much but then again, Dak didn't run much last season either.  With the weapons TB now has, I think he's relevant for FF.

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2 hours ago, markrc99 said:

 

Reading Simmons profile at draft tracker, one can get a sense that he hasn't really mastered his listed position. When I read about a player's weaknesses, I like seeing fill, not what could be serious concerns or red flags. In high school he played in the back & at WR. He goes to Clemson and redshirted his 1st year, did track & field. In 2017 his career begins playing in the back. It's only been these past few seasons he's played at LB. From a traditional standpoint, he doesn't read like a stack & shed run defender. He doesn't look like that player either. Kyle Kuechly was known for diagnosing the play on the pre snap, Isaiah Simmons is not that player. 

It's just me but prepping him to man the middle wouldn't make a lot of sense. This guy is in his element reading the QB, tracking & attacking the football, classic 'nickel backer. I think the team that drafts Simmons mans him over the TE, perhaps even the z-slot primary in certain situations. I don't think you ask him to mirror shifty, change of direction slot rec'rs. And when you need help getting to the QB, the offense better know where this player is. 

That said, this team needs a lot of help up front on both sides of the ball. Subjecting Bridgewater to a league-high 58 sacks is going to have disastrous results. If they draft your player and the offense is a mess, that right there will undermine Simmons' value. Who's the most important player on the field? Oh, you never know, the guys they.. NO! That's guessing, they need to come out of this draft KNOWING, if nothing else, they're going to protect their QB!! With this new offense comes a greater emphasis on multi-WRs sets, so WR the exception.          

 

 

i love that we can debate the player as well as the need for the panthers, but i disagree with the scope of your analysis: isaiah simmons won the butkus award as a junior because he’s an outstanding linebacker with sky-high potential to wreck offenses. looking for weaknesses in gameplay is prudent, but in simmons’ case it’s somewhat of nitpicking because of his versatility now and his NFL future.

 

more to the panthers’ point: losing kuechly creates a giant-sized void. i completely agree with you that simmons is not “that guy,” but i’d suggest adding “not yet.” few LBs can fill kuechly’s shoes. simmons’ areas of growth may include instincts near the line of scrimmage and speed of read-and-react linebacking, two of kuechly’s many strengths. but simply put, there is no other linebacker in this class that has simmons’ potential. and at 1.07, if simmons is there, despite your spot-on insight regarding offensive linemen needs, i cannot see going offensive guard or tackle or center considering the void at LB. my opinion.

 

many other insights as well…

 

Lance Zierlein: Ascending hybrid talent with rare length, speed and versatility to create mismatches for the offense, depending upon alignment […] can handle zone or man coverage from a variety of spots on the field, which gives defensive coordinators a chance to disguise blitz packages and exotic post-snap looks… NFL Comparison: Darius Leonard

 

Draft Network: Isaiah Simmons is a blue chip prospect with unparalleled versatility. His unbelievable length and athletic gifts make him a sensible fit for a number of positions, including MIKE, SAM, SS and a nickel LB in coverage. Simmons has explosive qualities and will be an asset vs. the run and pass alike. He's a game changing player who should be coveted as a true 3-down linebacker/hybrid defender who can be the pivotal chess piece in a weekly defensive game plan.

 

Walter Football: Player Comparison: Lavonte David. Simmons reminds me of a bigger version of Lavonte David. Both are tremendous in pass coverage with rare speed and athleticism to cover. They also are sideline-to-sideline run defenders who consistently put their defenses in a favorable down-and-distance situations. In the NFL, I think Simmons could have an impact like David for his pro defense.

not cherrypicking here. the chinks in simmons' armor are few, and his potential to develop further outstanding.

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YAC from McCaffrey I think helps to provide a nice floor.

Kyle Allen was a decent streamer for a couple weeks and I think Teddy's better than that.  You could always pair him up with another weapons laden/poor defense option like Danny Dimes or Stafford after you're done filling the RB/WR/TE and see what happens.

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12 minutes ago, JE7HorseGod said:

YAC from McCaffrey I think helps to provide a nice floor.

Kyle Allen was a decent streamer for a couple weeks and I think Teddy's better than that.  You could always pair him up with another weapons laden/poor defense option like Danny Dimes or Stafford after you're done filling the RB/WR/TE and see what happens.

All three of their starting receivers can produce after the catch.  Definitely worth consideration as a late-round pick.

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Sack Exchange said:

"... looking for weaknesses in gameplay is prudent, but in Simmons’ case it’s somewhat of nitpicking because of his versatility now and his NFL future. ... Simmons’ areas of growth may include instincts near the line of scrimmage and speed of read-and-react linebacking, two of Kuechly’s many strengths. But simply put, there is no other linebacker in this class that has [his] potential. And at 1.07, if Simmons is there, despite your spot-on insight regarding offensive linemen needs, I cannot see going offensive guard or tackle or center considering the void at LB. ... The chinks in Simmons' armor are few, and his potential to develop further outstanding." 

 

The Panthers, even with Kuechly, couldn't stop the run. Even though that isn't Simmons forte, he'll be touted as the heir apparent in the media. In those scouting reports you left out the parts emphasizing, with him new to the position, his inability to process what he's seeing in a timely manner. Which is correctable. Simmons was often in position to make things happen, and he did. But him being in the right place, how often was that about him and him being schemed up by his coaches? On this level he's going to be baited, offenses are going to show him things that aren't there.      

In that last assessment, it suggests that Simmons' range, when he's unaccounted for on the back side of a play factors in rendering an offense one-dimensional. Which it does, but a defense can shut down a run game all day & still not render the opponent one-dimensional. Why, because they can't score themselves! I'm not making up some doomsday's scenario here. That they couldn't stop the run OR protect their QB is the reality! As much as I like Bridgewater, durability has been a serious issue. And this new system, they need to not only add depth, but upgrade at WR.  

Ah, but you remain unconvinced, am I right? Fine, you force me to turn to the real McCoy! See this image just below, it's a typical NFL playbook for a QB! It's like an encyclopedia or some $h!+. Indicative of how much effort goes into being successful...

D4MKgXdW0AEyTrE.jpg.4375037eb60b0b4d92455c6dcaf3bf94.jpg

And then this, the exact playbook for every defender who has ever played this game... on any level! :) Notice how the rings are open as if to suggest something was in there at one time. Or, to be fair, that something might actually end up in there....It's complete FBS! Here's the quote you've never heard ... & never will: "we really need to get the defense on the field."

images.jpeg.56642d4342490c107252ee933c891633.jpeg

 

 

 

 

Edited by markrc99

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32 minutes ago, markrc99 said:

 

The Panthers, even with Kuechly, couldn't stop the run. Even though that isn't Simmons forte, he'll be touted as the heir apparent in the media. In those scouting reports you left out the parts emphasizing, with him new to the position, his inability to process what he's seeing in a timely manner. Which is correctable. Simmons was often in position to make things happen, and he did. But him being in the right place, how often was that about him and him being schemed up by his coaches? On this level he's going to be baited, offenses are going to show him things that aren't there.      

In that last assessment, it suggests that Simmons' range, when he's unaccounted for on the back side of a play factors in rendering an offense one-dimensional. Which it does, but a defense can shut down a run game all day & still not render the opponent one-dimensional. Why, because they can't score themselves! I'm not making up some doomsday's scenario here. That they couldn't stop the run OR protect their QB is the reality! As much as I like Bridgewater, durability has been a serious issue. And this new system, they need to not only add depth, but upgrade at WR.  

Ah, but you remain unconvinced, am I right? Fine, you force me to turn to the real McCoy! See this image just below, it's a typical NFL playbook for a QB! It's like an encyclopedia or some $h!+. Indicative of how much effort goes into being successful...

D4MKgXdW0AEyTrE.jpg.4375037eb60b0b4d92455c6dcaf3bf94.jpg

And then this, the exact playbook for every defender who has ever played this game... on any level! :) Notice how the rings are open as if to suggest something was in there at one time. Or, to be fair, that something might actually end up in there....It's complete FBS! Here's the quote you've never heard ... & never will: "we really need to get the defense on the field."

images.jpeg.56642d4342490c107252ee933c891633.jpeg

 

 

 

 

Am I confused, or are you saying that individual defensive talent doesn't matter?

Because if you are, I strongly disagree.

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I'm saying, not nearly as much as it once did. The game increasingly favors the offense, while the defense is trending toward getting smaller & the tackling, horrible! You'll agree, the best defense is to not surrender possession of the football in the first place! You tell me, which side of the ball wears down from being out there too long? The defense has the man advantage, the offense, where the play is going. The offense can know what the defense is in all game, we all agree, it's huge! But when the defense knows the play the offense is running... it's over! The defense gets to pick its poison. 

With the Panthers it seems that the needs on offense are at least as great & I would expect the focus to be there. However, with the 7th pick, I think that's too high to take an interior OL in this draft. Accordingly OT Wills jr. didn't play a down at LT. Thing about him, he can start right away. This draft is said to be deep at OT & WR. The 1st RD WRs are awesome! But I can also see them entertaining offers to trade back to land Justin Jefferson. On day two I like Michael Pittman but a system fit may be Denzel Mims. Bridgewater may need to demand a degree of assurance here, that they're going to build a wall in front of him & get him more guys to throw to.  

 

 

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I hear you on the WR surplus, but that’s literally the least of the Panthers’ problems.  It still wouldn’t surprise me to dive into the pool.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, markrc99 said:

I'm saying, not nearly as much as it once did. The game increasingly favors the offense, while the defense is trending toward getting smaller & the tackling, horrible! You'll agree, the best defense is to not surrender possession of the football in the first place! You tell me, which side of the ball wears down from being out there too long? The defense has the man advantage, the offense, where the play is going. The offense can know what the defense is in all game, we all agree, it's huge! But when the defense knows the play the offense is running... it's over! The defense gets to pick its poison. 

With the Panthers it seems that the needs on offense are at least as great & I would expect the focus to be there. However, with the 7th pick, I think that's too high to take an interior OL in this draft. Accordingly OT Wills jr. didn't play a down at LT. Thing about him, he can start right away. This draft is said to be deep at OT & WR. The 1st RD WRs are awesome! But I can also see them entertaining offers to trade back to land Justin Jefferson. On day two I like Michael Pittman but a system fit may be Denzel Mims. Bridgewater may need to demand a degree of assurance here, that they're going to build a wall in front of him & get him more guys to throw to.  

 

 


would be surprising if they drafted a wr that high with Moore, Anderson,Samuel in their primes 

Edited by Impreza178
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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, BMcP said:

"I hear you on the WR surplus, but that’s literally the least of the Panthers’ problems. It still wouldn’t surprise me to dive into the pool."

 

14 hours ago, Impreza178 said:

"Would be surprising if they drafted a wr that high with Moore, Anderson,Samuel in their primes." 

 

Uphill argument, no doubt... but it is going to happen! (ha-ha) Love D.J. Moore & Samuel could find his role better defined in Brady's system. That can happen to a hybrid & he seemed to be their gadget guy. Anderson has a connection to Rhule. But where's your just-go-over-them (size) red-zone threat? Where's the legit z-slot primary? Anderson is a very good field stretcher but where's the rest of it? Makes plays & then disappears, tall, narrow-framed, could have something to do with it. Has had off-field issues, but Rhule obviously has faith. I get that they have greater needs, but for a team that is going to run a lot of multi-WR sets, not enough! 

Reportedly, near last season's trade deadline the Panthers made inquiries about Emanuel Sanders before he ended up in SF. Samuel, who is in a contract year has been named in any number of trade rumors. While the team denies shopping him, they don't deny a willingness to part with him. With CMC & Moore coming due, is Samuel part of the long plan? One scenario has Philly parting with their 3rd RD pick & Carolina's choice of DBs (Sidney Jones or Rasul Douglas). If they move him & gain a draft pick, it's no longer a question of whether they add a WR, but how many.  

A second wildcard is that with so many holes, trading back in the 1st RD has to be a legitimate consideration. Even if you're right in that taking a WR is too early in the 1st RD, it isn't for OL! They trade back and accrue several more selections on day two, it's on! The third potential wildcard is Teddy.  As I mentioned, very unassuming, but perhaps to a fault. Wouldn't surprise me to learn that he's already got a strong sense of the players round him, in particular, the ones that line up in front of him. He knows he should be listened to. If he goes in there to tell the both of them: "I've something I want to show you. Look, you see this? This can't go on, you need to do something about this! You subject me to this kind of punishment, I don't know."

All three could occur, but I suspect it'll only take one.     

 

Edited by markrc99

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