thebadferret

Clyde Edwards-Helaire 2020 Outlook

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23 minutes ago, Impreza178 said:


for starting Rb Damien Williams....could be a real nice 2020 season.  The rookie will be a good COP if his pass pro progresses quickly.   
 

😎

 

You mean the guy that has never had more than 145 touches in a single season?

 

That Damien Williams?

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

You mean the guy that has never had more than 145 touches in a single season?

 

That Damien Williams?

Cannot guarantee health for any football player...but do you really think KC wouldn’t have given him more touches if possible?

in the games he was healthy-  averaged close to 20 touches.  
 

Tell me you’re not spending a second round redraft pick on a rookie backup dependent on injury in front of him.  The Chiefs have already named DW the starter 

Edited by Impreza178

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Impreza178 said:

Cannot guarantee health for any football player...but do you really think KC wouldn’t have given him more touches if possible?

in the games he was healthy-  averaged close to 20 touches.  
 

Tell me you’re not spending a second round redraft pick on a rookie backup dependent on injury in front of him.  The Chiefs have already named DW the starter 

 

Well, I get the feeling you have played fantasy football long enough to know that being named the starter means very little. The snaps and touches you get is what is most important. 

 

I haven't decided what to do for him in redraft yet. I know he will be a factor later in the season and so I would want that even though he could start out with a lighter load the first few weeks. 

 

I know he is hands down the clear cut dynasty #1 pick.

 

It's just a matter of how soon he will overtake DW. He will win out on talent alone at some point this season and I don't draft based on injury either but there is something to be said for a guy who hasn't stayed healthy for a season for like 5 straight seasons. When considering CEH in redraft I'd have to consider that fact. CEH handled a huge load last year and looked like he did it with ease, I don't think he is gonna have a workload problem come about week 8-16, by then I think most people who passed on him in the middle or late 2nd would really be kicking themselves, especially in PPR.

Edited by DerrickHenrysCleats
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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

Well, I get the feeling you have played fantasy football long enough to know that being named the starter means very little. The snaps and touches you get is what is most important. 

 

I haven't decided what to do for him in redraft yet. I know he will be a factor later in the season and so I would want that even though he could start out with a lighter load the first few weeks. 

 

I know he is hands down the clear cut dynasty #1 pick.

 

It's just a matter of how soon he will overtake DW. He will win out on talent alone at some point this season and I don't draft based on injury either but there is something to be said for a guy who hasn't stayed healthy for a season for like 5 straight seasons. When considering CEH in redraft I'd have to consider that fact. CEH handled a huge load last year and looked like he did it with ease, I don't think he is gonna have a workload problem come about week 8-16, by then I think most people who passed on him in the middle or late 2nd would really be kicking themselves, especially in PPR.


I wouldn’t call 270 touches a “huge load”.   Especially when 55 were receptions-  on mostly open dumpoffs and screens.   Many college rbs with more touches and just as efficient or more so.  This dude isn’t out there running wheel routes and slants too often.  At 5’7 205 hes not particularly big or explosive.  Don’t see that changing in the nfl against bigger and faster athletes.  
 

I’ve got Taylor and Dobbins as the top rookie rbs for dynasty...CEH #3,  Akers 4.    You’re hoping the landing spot makes up for the difference in athletic and explosive prowess.  
 

Edited by Impreza178
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1 hour ago, Impreza178 said:


I wouldn’t call 270 touches a “huge load”.   Especially when 55 were receptions-  on mostly open dumpoffs and screens.   Many college rbs with more touches and just as efficient or more so.  This dude isn’t out there running wheel routes and slants too often.  At 5’7 205 hes not particularly big or explosive.  Don’t see that changing in the nfl against bigger and faster athletes.  
 

I’ve got Taylor and Dobbins as the top rookie rbs for dynasty...CEH #3,  Akers 4.    You’re hoping the landing spot makes up for the difference in athletic and explosive prowess.  
 

 

Haha, you don't call 270 touches a huge load?

 

Ok, I think it is.

 

5'7 and built like a bowling ball. The guy is the perfect fit for the perfect offense.

 

I do like Dobbins and Taylor as better pure runners than CEH just like I like Derrick Henry as a better pure RB than CMC. The receiving game is what makes CEH so lethal, as with CMC.

 

He had 55 catches last season, that's more than Jonathan Taylor had in 3 years at Wisconsin. Dobbins had 71 total receptions in 3 years.

 

Both Taylor and Dobbins have a tougher path to fantasy stardom as a rookie than CEH. Taylor will cede almost all passing work to Nyhiem hines and has to work through a bit of a fumbling problem while sharing with Marlon mack. Dobbins will share with a top 12 RB from last year Ingram and Gus Edwards isn't going anywhere and Lamar Jackson dumps off less than Maholmes. CEH will split exclusively with Damien Williams to start the season and is the best bet to have a consistent weekly workload. He is the best pass catching back on the best passing team with the best passing QB. 

 

its possible that Dobbins or Taylor ends their rookie seasons with more rushing yards than CEH although I even see that as unlikely but I think he will have double the production in the receiving game as Dobbins or Taylor and for PPR that is what would be most important. Even in standard it's gonna be hard to imagine Taylor or Dobbins having as many or more scoring opportunities as CEH.

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32 minutes ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

Haha, you don't call 270 touches a huge load?

 

Ok, I think it is.

 

5'7 and built like a bowling ball. The guy is the perfect fit for the perfect offense.

 

I do like Dobbins and Taylor as better pure runners than CEH just like I like Derrick Henry as a better pure RB than CMC. The receiving game is what makes CEH so lethal, as with CMC.

 

He had 55 catches last season, that's more than Jonathan Taylor had in 3 years at Wisconsin. Dobbins had 71 total receptions in 3 years.

 

Both Taylor and Dobbins have a tougher path to fantasy stardom as a rookie than CEH. Taylor will cede almost all passing work to Nyhiem hines and has to work through a bit of a fumbling problem while sharing with Marlon mack. Dobbins will share with a top 12 RB from last year Ingram and Gus Edwards isn't going anywhere and Lamar Jackson dumps off less than Maholmes. CEH will split exclusively with Damien Williams to start the season and is the best bet to have a consistent weekly workload. He is the best pass catching back on the best passing team with the best passing QB. 

 

its possible that Dobbins or Taylor ends their rookie seasons with more rushing yards than CEH although I even see that as unlikely but I think he will have double the production in the receiving game as Dobbins or Taylor and for PPR that is what would be most important. Even in standard it's gonna be hard to imagine Taylor or Dobbins having as many or more scoring opportunities as CEH.


I don’t have a strong preference between CEH and JT for 2020.    Both should be taken ahead of Dobbins for redraft.   But dynasty...JT is far more talented,  and you’re making a mistake pigeon holing him as a pure runner just because he played at one dimensional wisconsin.   Check out his combine tape and feedback if you wish to fact check.  Indy has a phenomenal O line and the best individual lineman in the league.   JT will be a top 5...3 down back in one year.   
Dobbins gets Lamar and a ground heavy ravens attack-  but needs Ingram to jet out.   2021 again...he’s a top 15 rb.  

 

Just one guy on the internets opinion lol.  Many others will disagree and thats fine.  

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Posted (edited)

Interesting convo here about what to do at 1.01.  I personally say CEH, but it’s not as open-and-shut as one might think.  @Impreza178: I highly recommend you check out (if you haven’t already) this informative analysis that aligns with your conclusions regarding Taylor and Dobbins:

https://breakoutfinder.com/keeneys-running-back-model-the-case-against-clyde-edwards-helaire/
 

Ultimately, I still place my faith in Reid’s nearly impeccable judgment regarding RB prospects, his and his staff’s ability to properly develop CEH, and the otherworldly potential of a RB with CEH’s profile within that Chiefs offense.  But I wouldn’t fault you for thinking otherwise.

Edited by BMcP
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For 2020 i am scared at the 2nd round draft day cost. For dynasty I can see the argument for him at 101 easily with mahomes as his qb helping him out. 

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, Impreza178 said:


I don’t have a strong preference between CEH and JT for 2020.    Both should be taken ahead of Dobbins for redraft.   But dynasty...JT is far more talented,  and you’re making a mistake pigeon holing him as a pure runner just because he played at one dimensional wisconsin.   Check out his combine tape and feedback if you wish to fact check.  Indy has a phenomenal O line and the best individual lineman in the league.   JT will be a top 5...3 down back in one year.   
Dobbins gets Lamar and a ground heavy ravens attack-  but needs Ingram to jet out.   2021 again...he’s a top 15 rb.  

 

Just one guy on the internets opinion lol.  Many others will disagree and thats fine.  

 

We can agree to disagree, we have before.

I just think CEH is a more polished all around RB coming into the league in the perfect situation. 

 

Helaire was running some nuanced routes under Joe Brady last year for LSU, WR type routes, lining up in the slot, thats a bit different than Wisconsin dumping off some screens to Taylor to show he can catch. I think Taylor can learn but that takes a lite bit if time. CEH is a polished receiver already. Taylor has a little fumbling issue too, ball security could be an issue initially when transitioning to the NFL and then his pass protection will need work. 

 

I guess what I'm saying is that CEH is the RB set up for the most success as a rookie from a fantasy standpoint. He will have the most receptions and receiving yards and has the least resistance to taking most the rushes as well. JT, Dobbins and CEH will all be 3 down backs come 2021 but Helaires elite receiving ability and Andy Reid's playcalling is what will keep CEH above JK and JT for fantasy

 

Reid drafting CEH in the 1st round means they will get a 5th year option on him before free agency so that's 5 years with Andy Reid and Patrick Maholmes 👀

Edited by DerrickHenrysCleats
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29 minutes ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

Reid drafting CEH in the 1st round means they will get a 5th year option on him before free agency so that's 5 years with Andy Reid and Patrick Maholmes 👀

Very important point - and one that should not be overlooked for dynasty purposes.

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Kareem Hunt had 1,327 rushing yards and 8 TDs to go along with 53 catches for 455 yards and 3 TDs as a rookie with Andy Reid.

 

With Williams inability to stay healthy all year it does not seem to be much of a stretch to project similar #s for CEH as a rookie.

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3 hours ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

Kareem Hunt had 1,327 rushing yards and 8 TDs to go along with 53 catches for 455 yards and 3 TDs as a rookie with Andy Reid.

 

With Williams inability to stay healthy all year it does not seem to be much of a stretch to project similar #s for CEH as a rookie.

The other thing with Williams is RBs don’t suddenly become good after 6 seasons. The dude was splitting touches for half the season with a washed up Shady. He didn’t really start to get touches until Shady got factored out of the offense.

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1 hour ago, Gohawks said:

The other thing with Williams is RBs don’t suddenly become good after 6 seasons. The dude was splitting touches for half the season with a washed up Shady. He didn’t really start to get touches until Shady got factored out of the offense.

DW was suddenly good before and after splitting touches with McCoy.  Weird statement to make, because he was great PPG without him.  And his PPG volume and production was great in that sixth season.

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Im gonna go on a limb here and say that he's in the discussion for no. 1 pick next year with McCaffrey

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18 minutes ago, pushaZ said:

Im gonna go on a limb here and say that he's in the discussion for no. 1 pick next year with McCaffrey


Would you rather have Drake or CEH for 2020?

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Just now, FantasyGuru24 said:


Would you rather have Drake or CEH for 2020?

CEH and it's not close

 

But Drake is good too

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50 minutes ago, pushaZ said:

CEH and it's not close

 

But Drake is good too


The exact opposite

 

Drake is a potential top 5 in 2020.  In dynasty I would take Clyde 

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11 hours ago, Impreza178 said:


The exact opposite

 

Drake is a potential top 5 in 2020.  In dynasty I would take Clyde 

 

I was like whaaaaa to @pushaZ response.  I agree with your assessment.    

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On 5/11/2020 at 11:01 AM, FantasyGuru24 said:


Would you rather have Drake or CEH for 2020?

Both have to complete with JAGs for touches but CEH is in a way better offense so CEH is my pick in redraft as well.

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On 5/11/2020 at 1:42 PM, pushaZ said:

Im gonna go on a limb here and say that he's in the discussion for no. 1 pick next year with McCaffrey

 

That is one very bold prediction for a player that has yet to play a down in the NFL. You may be right, not sayin' you're crazy or anything. But, that poppin' and crackin' sound I'm hearin' might also be that limb you just climbed out on. We only have one more year to find out. Page saved for future reference. 

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14 hours ago, theSPANKER said:

 

I was like whaaaaa to @pushaZ response.  I agree with your assessment.    

 

Me too. 

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On 5/11/2020 at 1:42 PM, pushaZ said:

Im gonna go on a limb here and say that he's in the discussion for no. 1 pick next year with McCaffrey

Great take. Need more of this willingness to push the conversational envelope.

I don't think this prediction is farfetched at all.

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15 hours ago, The G Man said:

 

That is one very bold prediction for a player that has yet to play a down in the NFL. You may be right, not sayin' you're crazy or anything. But, that poppin' and crackin' sound I'm hearin' might also be that limb you just climbed out on. We only have one more year to find out. Page saved for future reference. 

 

Well, I think what has people so excited is that Andy Reid made Brian Westbrook CMC before CMC was CMC. 

 

Westbrook ran for 1,300+ yards and 7 TDs and had 90 receptions for 700+ yards and 5 more TDs playing with Andy Reid.

 

That's where the excitement comes from, the idea that Andy Reid thinks he has found a RB better than Westbrook👀

 

 

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Serious question when was the last time a 1st round RB was drafted but was outright beat out for the starting job?

I know people will say rashaad penny but people forget he actually broke his hand a month before the start of the season and needed surgery and thus didn’t get the opportunity to take over and Chris Carson never looked back. So that should have a small asterisk imo.

Maybe it’s CMC cuss Johnathon Stewart certainly had a lot of touches. 

I think people should be excited for CEH I doubt Damien Williams will be the starter or steal many touches.

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2 hours ago, Stonej14 said:

Serious question when was the last time a 1st round RB was drafted but was outright beat out for the starting job?

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