The G Man

Ke'Shawn Vaughn 2020 Outlook

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Sometimes when you shoot from the hip, you miss.

I blame it on Covid19.

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3 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Chris Carson beat out Rashad Penny.  Seattle took no RBs in rounds 1-3.

David Montgomery beat out Mike Davis.  No running back drafted.

Kenyon Drake beat out David Johnson.  No running back drafted until round 7.

Ronald Jones formed a committee with Peyton Barber.  Then the Bucs drafted a three-down back in round 2.

This was not an excercise.

What

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7 hours ago, BMcP said:

It was an “exercise”?  Ok, thanks, coach.

 

Some words have multiple meanings! Crazy world out there.

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12 hours ago, Impreza178 said:

Round 3,  chief.   Tampa passed on the real difference makers and went with a role player.   


The difference-makers have been drafted in rd 3. Especially in the past 5 years:

 

David Johnson

Alvin Kamara

Kareem Hunt

James Connor

Kenyan Drake

 

etc, etc.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, joshua18 said:


The difference-makers have been drafted in rd 3. Especially in the past 5 years:

 

David Johnson

Alvin Kamara

Kareem Hunt

James Connor

Kenyan Drake

 

etc, etc.

Dude: listing five players drafted in the third round who have succeeded and proceeding to describe the third-rounders as “difference-makers” overall doesn’t really work.

No matter how many “et ceteras” are included.

Edited by BMcP
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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, BMcP said:

Dude: listing five players drafted in the third round who have succeeded and proceeding to describe the third-rounders as “difference-makers” overall doesn’t really work.

No matter how many “et ceteras” are included.

 

I gotta agree here. Most difference makers are drafted in the first and second rounds and it ain't close. Doesn't mean that teams always get it right but there is a reason first and second rounders on average are the true difference makers at running back. Contrary to popular belief, the NFL as a whole is good at assessing talent.

Edited by paulwall29
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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

The difference-makers have been drafted in rd 3. Especially in the past 5 years:

Round 1: 

Todd Gurley
Ezekiel Elliott
Melvin Gordon
Christian McCaffrey
Saquon Barkley

I thought it was really sweet you included Drake btw. His mom will be very pleased.

 

Edited by Boudewijn
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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Boudewijn said:

Round 1: 

Todd Gurley
Ezekiel Elliott
Melvin Gordon
Christian McCaffrey
Saquon Barkley

I thought it was really sweet you included Drake btw. His mom will be very pleased.

 

 

Another common theme here is that they all took their backfields over before year three and their teams didn't spend a day 2 pick to compete with them before their rookie contract was up ;)

Edited by paulwall29

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2 minutes ago, paulwall29 said:

 

Another common theme here is that they all took their backfields over before year three and their teams didn't spend a day 2 pick to compete with them ;)

Round-one-ers?  Taking over their backfield from the jump?  Super weird.

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Just now, BMcP said:

Round-one-ers?  Taking over their backfield from the jump?  Super weird.

 

Precisely 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/11/2020 at 12:11 AM, paulwall29 said:
  • “Another common theme here is that they all took their backfields over before year three and their teams didn't spend a day 2 pick to compete with them before their rookie contract was up ;)

 

Can’t go wrong with Vaughn, not if you draft before the preseason. If you draft late & Jones has only had 10 touches, you may want to think. I’ve looked at a half-dozen of Vaughn’s blowup plays: 

This first one is a 65 yd TD vs N. Carolina. It’s important to recognize this play is well executed. But also, notice that the play side DE & Safety are the real keys as both take themselves completely out of the play. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOccMXzHlhk

These next two are from his game tape vs Baylor (‘18), the first is 40secs into the video. An off-tackle, well blocked & again, a horrible angle taken by the Safety. Note on the replay, completely untouched. The every next play, he takes another one to the house. What’s important to consider here is that the cut Vaughn makes in the backfield is part of the play design. The rest is just really $hi++y defense. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms2P-ZbZtOc 

Now, this one here he does more to gain the edge. He wins this one primarily because it’s poorly defended. On the replay you can see this play is designed to go straight up the middle. And it’s there, but he elects to take this thing wide. That’s really risky to do when handed the ball in your own end-zone. If he pulls a stunt like this at the next level & ends up eating it in their own goal, it’s him who’ll be riding the pine for awhile! https://www.secsports.com/video/24973518/vandy-rb-vaughn-races-43-yard-gain

Same game vs Florida, Vandy sets up a short screen, well timed & executed, but poor recognition & poorly defended. Another play he takes to the house, exploiting a gawd-awful amount of space. https://www.foxsports.com/college-football/video/1343604803579

This is vs Missouri, the identical play, a screen to Vaughn. Same result, the entire DL gets sucked up into it & the back doesn’t recognize it. I mean, the pulling OG can’t find anyone to block until 15-20 yds downfield. The homie announcer says Vaughn breaks a tackle, but it’s junk. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wVqFdxONgY

 

Edited by markrc99
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4 hours ago, markrc99 said:

Can’t go wrong with Vaughn

 

4 hours ago, markrc99 said:

On the replay you can see this play is designed to go straight up the middle. And it’s there, but he elects to take this thing wide. That’s really risky to do when handed the ball in your own end-zone.

Yeah, no kidding, and that's the kind of stuff that got quite a few RBs benched. So why do you consider Vaughn is a can't go wrong, because of the low draft capital involved?

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3 hours ago, Boudewijn said:

“Yeah, no kidding, and that's the kind of stuff that got quite a few RBs benched. So why do you consider Vaughn is a can't go wrong, because of the low draft capital involved?”


That’s it, just that you should be able to get him at the back of your draft. It was said & perhaps implied that since Vandy’s OL stunk, Vaughn did much of it on his own. If not, it doesn’t matter because you can find that material elsewhere. That he ripped off a bunch of explosive plays behind the worst OL. But of the big plays I happened to review, almost all of them had a lot less to do with him. They did have a high turnover of personnel from ‘18 to ‘19 & defenses keyed on him. His production dropped off, even though he had about 50 more touches. So, seemingly not a player capable of separating himself at the collegiate level. However, Arians & his staff envision Vaughn as a player who can “detach” & release into the pattern... 

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, markrc99 said:


That’s it, just that you should be able to get him at the back of your draft. It was said & perhaps implied that since Vandy’s OL stunk, Vaughn did much of it on his own. If not, it doesn’t matter because you can find that material elsewhere. That he ripped off a bunch of explosive plays behind the worst OL. But of the big plays I happened to review, almost all of them had a lot less to do with him. They did have a high turnover of personnel from ‘18 to ‘19 & defenses keyed on him. His production dropped off, even though he had about 50 more touches. So, seemingly not a player capable of separating himself at the collegiate level. However, Arians & his staff envision Vaughn as a player who can “detach” & release into the pattern... 

 

Exactly.   He was drafted precisely for that reason-  to run routes and be a major factor in the passing game.    Think Duke Johnson Or James White.  Worth the draft price if he becomes either.  Any expectations of a three down role aren’t supported by film...nor is spending a third round pick a sign of blind faith.  
 

   Rojo will lead the backfield as expected.   He’s the vet and the better runner,  drawing praise and marked improvement since entering the league as one of the youngest prospects in the draft.    They’ve been grooming him to be the primary and looking for the right compliment.   Vaughn could be that compliment.  

Edited by Impreza178
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Posted (edited)
On 5/10/2020 at 8:55 PM, Boudewijn said:

Round 1: 

Todd Gurley
Ezekiel Elliott
Melvin Gordon
Christian McCaffrey
Saquon Barkley

I thought it was really sweet you included Drake btw. His mom will be very pleased.

 

 

LOL... GTFO... 

Round 3 Duke Johnson's rookie year outperformed Melvin Gordon's cement boot rookie season.

There's plenty of difference makers (fantasy wise - this is a fantasy forum iirc) to be had in latter rounds of the real NFL draft... add Jordan Howard, 2015 Round 5 and his 1600 total yards in his rookie season to the list already mentioned.  Situation and opportunity plays a huge factor.  

Y'all are moving the goalposts and cherry picking.

 

Edited by Maroney's Bolgna

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Posted (edited)
On 5/10/2020 at 10:42 PM, BMcP said:

Dude: listing five players drafted in the third round who have succeeded and proceeding to describe the third-rounders as “difference-makers” overall doesn’t really work.

No matter how many “et ceteras” are included.

Dont worry fam, i got u

RBs drafted in the 3rd round since 2015. (I think i got them all).

 

Royce Freeman

David Johnson
Kamara
Kareem Hunt
D'Onta Foreman
James Conner
Kenyan Drake
CJ Prosise
Tevin Coleman
Duke Johnson
Matt Jones
Darrell Henderson
David Montgomery
Devin Singletary
Damien Harris
Alexander Mattison

 

Edited by bhawks489
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Matt jones owners will always have that home game vs the saints. AS for vaughn was makes him interesting to me is the cheap adp price currently going in round 6 to 8 in 12 team leagues in a lot of yahoo drafts. If you draft him and he becomes a top 15 fantasy rb or even just the 2019 version of miles sanders for his draft day cost that is a win. If I had to guess ronald jones and vaughn will form a 50 50 committee of some sort. The key here is Dare does not show up to get 5 to 10 touches per game. If Dare does then it is yuck city.

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12 hours ago, isuckatdfs said:

“Matt jones owners will always have that home game vs the saints. As for vaughn what makes him interesting to me is the cheap adp price currently going in round 6 to 8 in 12 team leagues in a lot of yahoo drafts. ... If I had to guess ronald jones and vaughn will form a 50 50 committee of some sort. ...”


I liked Matt Jones a lot, big, fast & could catch. Unfortunately he fumbled his way into obscurity. I’m surprised Vaughn is going that high so soon. He’s ranked 141 at nfl.com & his adp has him as a 12th RDer at ffc. Oddly, he’s been trending downward there. Could be wrong but I think Tampa is going to run the football & be in the right play far more often. Both Jones & Peyton Barber faced a lot of base/stacked fronts... If defenses continue to tighten up into the short zone now that Tom Brady is their QB, I expect him to take full advantage. Get them pushed back, run the ball & more passes off run-action. Accordingly, Arians has never protected his QB all that well. He talks about it, but that seems largely the extent. Brady will take care of himself if Arians let’s him, which I believe is a certainty. If they succeed at establishing a run/pass balance, that OL will improve immensely & I see Ronald Jones, the ball-carrier, benefitting a lot. 

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17 hours ago, isuckatdfs said:

Matt jones owners will always have that home game vs the saints. AS for vaughn was makes him interesting to me is the cheap adp price currently going in round 6 to 8 in 12 team leagues in a lot of yahoo drafts. If you draft him and he becomes a top 15 fantasy rb or even just the 2019 version of miles sanders for his draft day cost that is a win. If I had to guess ronald jones and vaughn will form a 50 50 committee of some sort. The key here is Dare does not show up to get 5 to 10 touches per game. If Dare does then it is yuck city.


Wouldn’t be too worried about Dare. And if he is getting those kinda touches, that means either RoJo or Vaughn are in the doghouse.  

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And it's On like Ke'Shawn Vaughn:

https://www.buccaneers.com/news/buccaneers-place-keshawn-vaughn-on-reserve-covid-list

Rookie RB Ke'Shawn Vaughn has been placed on the reserve/COVID-19 list, which was created for a player who either tests positive for COVID-19 or who has been quarantined after having been in close contact with an infected person or persons

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Hard to still want a piece on draft day at this point.   This could stunt his career beyond repair.  I feel like he had one season to shoot his shot, and James White probably gets signed to join Brady next spring and bam, window closed

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8 hours ago, PlayTheWaivers said:

Love the ROJO haters...this guy is gonna be irrelevant this year IMO

LOVE the ROJO lovers. Can hardly believe they still exist

That guy has been irrelevant since entering the league

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Not a Vaughn fan either though

This team will throw, throw and throw some more

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Just a few more weeks of “no TB back is fantasy relevant,” please!

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