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The 7th Beatles

2020 Owner / Player Negotiations

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2 hours ago, FISH ON said:

The biggest aspect of the owners' negotiations was, ZERO gate receipts, zero.. there will be fans in the stands before September 1st, and the owners knew this..The union caved to public pressure from the owners' tactics of leaking the information they leaked'

I agree with Brock, the fans got played, we turned on the players thinking they were the greedy side, but we get baseball, which is what everyone wanted, that's the piece of candy to quiet us..meanwhile, the owners will be laughing all the way to the bank once stadium open. They won't be full, but 25-30% is a huge win for the owners, especially once they get the expanded playoff games( which was intended to recoup their zero gate receipt losses)....you can say, "let's see how this all plays out" all you want, but much the same as we saw with the fan outcry to "Get it done", we'll see fans in the seats at some point, the media is already reporting that some venues are saying it will be, and the fans will once again get what they want, just as they did baseball...

Now next season will be another story altogether here in these forums while they get closer to a new CBA, that's going to be another fun read, maybe even funnier than the Covid impact on baseball thread was, two sides arguing who's right, no one admitting they're wrong even when the numbers were against them, but I digress....

None are so blind as those that refuse to see.

Let's revisit this on September 1st.....I'll say this, if/when there are fans in the seats, the owners did not negotiate in good faith by basing their stance on zero gate receipts..they had to figure it would happen, if no fans, I eat a HUGE plate of raw crow...

For what it's worth my leagues (all 2) have voted to proceed with this abbreviated season. I'm still reserving the right to re-open the issue if there are mass-defections of blue-chip draft picks not playing. 

I'm very skeptical of the proceedings to say the least. Not sure why I'd play if I was making multi-millions per year per contract.

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Florida is getting smoked by COVID right now. Almost 9,000 new cases today. I don't see any way they play games there unless this drastically improves. 

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Posted (edited)

Here in Ca, we've had an uptick in cases too, but the short season won't start for another month, a lot can, and will happen in the next 2 months leading into September... I'm saying if there is baseball, there will be fans come September in the stands...if there is no baseball, it's all moot anyway....

Edited by FISH ON

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Well here are some dates.  The 60 man roster list:

Quote

Major League Baseball is asking all teams to submit their full 60-man player pools by Sunday evening.

And unfreezing transactions has happened as of noon EDT.  Please, Boston (and Yahoo) hurry it up and move Chris Sale to the IL list finally.  I'm begging you.  I NEED that slot freed up asap!  This is getting ridiculous.

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22 hours ago, FISH ON said:

... the owners will be laughing all the way to the bank once stadium open. They won't be full, but 25-30% is a huge win...

True. It also seems like butts in seats might weaken owners' position re compensation per the March agreement? I do agree that their negotiations look like bad faith. COVID gives owners a valid pretense for a lockout that could extend into next season. They have a lot of control and a lot of options when the only thing players want more than to play is to get paid.

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According to SNY's Andy Martino, one team having to drop out of MLB's planned 60-game season due to a COVID-19 outbreak would not necessarily result in a league-wide cancellation.

Martino obtained new language that was added to the March 26 agreement on Tuesday, and it outlines commissioner Rob Manfred's authority to cancel or suspend events as Major League Baseball attempts to stage a season amid a pandemic. The scenarios that would result in a possible cancelation or suspension: further travel restrictions being imposed, a "material change in circumstances" that would bring about "an unreasonable health and safety risk," and/or the number of diagnoses among the league ranks reaching a level where "the competitive integrity of the season is undermined." That last part is open to some interpretation. For now, MLB is planning to open spring training 2.0 on July 1 and begin a 60-game campaign on July 23-24.

Source: SNY.tv                     Jun 26, 2020, 7:06 PM ET

Well even one team dropping out would certainly mess up practical every fantasy league. 

MLB is walking the razor's edge as covid is back big time where things re-opened too soon.  Remember when the Texas authorities said it would be fine to have fans in the stands for the Rangers and Astros?  that was just a couple of weeks ago.  That sure isn't happening now.  Let down your guard for a minute and you will see that covid isn't going anywhere any time soon.

Add in the lack of common sense discipline and "risky" aka jerky behavior of some younger people including athletes and this season is going to be one poised on the edge of disaster at any given moment.  I don't know if crossing out fingers and toes will be enough to make this work.

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11 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

 

Well even one team dropping out would certainly mess up practical every fantasy league. 

MLB is walking the razor's edge as covid is back big time where things re-opened too soon.  Remember when the Texas authorities said it would be fine to have fans in the stands for the Rangers and Astros?  that was just a couple of weeks ago.  That sure isn't happening now.  Let down your guard for a minute and you will see that covid isn't going anywhere any time soon.

Add in the lack of common sense discipline and "risky" aka jerky behavior of some younger people including athletes and this season is going to be one poised on the edge of disaster at any given moment.  I don't know if crossing out fingers and toes will be enough to make this work.

My optimism for this 60 game season is dwindling everyday. Spring training 2.0 is supposed to start in 5 days, yet the country has recorded a new high in cases per day each of the last 3 days. The overwhelming failure of our country to control outbreaks despite having the knowledge and resources to do so is shocking and embarrassing.

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16 minutes ago, meh2 said:

My optimism for this 60 game season is dwindling everyday. Spring training 2.0 is supposed to start in 5 days, yet the country has recorded a new high in cases per day each of the last 3 days. The overwhelming failure of our country to control outbreaks despite having the knowledge and resources to do so is shocking and embarrassing.

Embarrassing, but not really shocking. We are an incredibly stupid, selfish, entitled, callous people who would rather see thousands die instead of agreeing to sacrifice to even the slightest inconveniences such as wearing a mask in public.

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20 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Well here are some dates.  The 60 man roster list:

And unfreezing transactions has happened as of noon EDT.  Please, Boston (and Yahoo) hurry it up and move Chris Sale to the IL list finally.  I'm begging you.  I NEED that slot freed up asap!  This is getting ridiculous.

For what?!

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, itslarry said:

For what?!

Moves to IL list.  Sending players down to the minors.  That kind of stuff.  Trades too I imagine.  All moves of any kind except the rookie draft and signings of same were frozen back when the spring training camps were shut down in April.

My example you quoted of Chris Sale is a good example.  He was having Tommy John surgery and would be out this season and some of next but the freeze came before Boston moved him to the IL.

Edited by The Big Bat Theory

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Well this is a weird part of the agreement it looks like every beat reporter with a team will be in competition to find out if a player really has a strained hammy or if they have the virus.  Why shouldn't people know?  Especially if some cab driver or waiter has been in contact with said player and doesn't find out and spreads it to their family and friends.  You are suppose to know who has it and not hide it.

Quote

Yankees GM Brian Cashman said Tuesday that it's his understanding that teams won't be able to reveal when players go on the COVID-19 IL this season.

MLB is going to try to play by privacy rules here, which is going to lead to plenty of speculation every time anyone is missing from the lineup. Let confusion reign.

Source: Bryan Hoch on Twitter                 Jun 30, 2020, 2:57 PM ET

 

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11 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Well this is a weird part of the agreement it looks like every beat reporter with a team will be in competition to find out if a player really has a strained hammy or if they have the virus.  Why shouldn't people know?  Especially if some cab driver or waiter has been in contact with said player and doesn't find out and spreads it to their family and friends.  You are suppose to know who has it and not hide it.

 

That's odd. If I'm understanding that right that would suck for fantasy leagues. If they are just out of the lineup and we don't know if they are on the COVID IL, then leagues/fantasy sites won't be able to put them in an IL spot. They'll just be dead weight until they come back again. 

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28 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Well this is a weird part of the agreement it looks like every beat reporter with a team will be in competition to find out if a player really has a strained hammy or if they have the virus.  Why shouldn't people know?  

 

HIPAA

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Even the contact tracers don't tell you who had it; just that you've come in contact with it. The players are entitled to some medical privacy.

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16 minutes ago, Hanghow said:

Even the contact tracers don't tell you who had it; just that you've come in contact with it. The players are entitled to some medical privacy.

No they aren't.  No one is. Lack of transparency leads to more cases.  A pandemic needs total transparency.  It isn't a privacy issue at all.  Only MLB is making it one.  The NBA is pretty out front in giving names and players there usually step up immediately to say "I have it."  It isn't the scarlet letter.  It isn't something of shame.  It is a disease that is sweeping the country.  Why is MLB trying to hide names?

And I guarantee every player in season -- if there still is one -- that gets it will be found out and it will become far bigger of a deal because MLB is trying to do a cover-up.  Off season so far few people care in the media or fan bases.  But in season everyone will.  And I mean every one from the cabbie that took the player to the restaurant to home town fans to beat reporters looking to break an exclusive to something like Draft Kings who could lose a lot of business because no one knows who has it and who doesn't.  Speaking of which anyone not in the line-up on a regular basis WILL be assumed to have it so some people who did pull their hammy will be assumed to have it leading to panic among people in the service industry etc who had contact with them.

A pandemic almost by definition effects us all and privacy gives way to the greater good.  It is like the mask thing.  You wear them for the greater good of others.  If you test positive for covid you let everyone know right away for the greater good of others.  We are all in this together. 

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58 minutes ago, KCTD25 said:

That's odd. If I'm understanding that right that would suck for fantasy leagues. If they are just out of the lineup and we don't know if they are on the COVID IL, then leagues/fantasy sites won't be able to put them in an IL spot. They'll just be dead weight until they come back again. 

IMO This fantasy season is dead. Giddyup fanduel & draft kings 

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1 hour ago, El_Chingon said:

HIPAA

This is the correct answer.

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48 minutes ago, JE7HorseGod said:

This is the correct answer.

Clearly the reason why...but how is having COVID any different by MLB and their teams disclosing that someone pulled a hammy, broke a leg, has cancer, a heart problem or all the other things we've found out about players who get hurt or sick all the time?  Why wasn't it a HIPAA secret that Carlos Carrasco had a heart condition or that Trey Mancini has cancer? 

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11 minutes ago, TheForearmShiver said:

Clearly the reason why...but how is having COVID any different by MLB and their teams disclosing that someone pulled a hammy, broke a leg, has cancer, a heart problem or all the other things we've found out about players who get hurt or sick all the time?  Why wasn't it a HIPAA secret that Carlos Carrasco had a heart condition or that Trey Mancini has cancer? 

I'm assuming because the players themselves allowed the information to be disclosed by their agents or managers or whomever.

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1 hour ago, TheForearmShiver said:

Clearly the reason why...but how is having COVID any different by MLB and their teams disclosing that someone pulled a hammy, broke a leg, has cancer, a heart problem or all the other things we've found out about players who get hurt or sick all the time?  Why wasn't it a HIPAA secret that Carlos Carrasco had a heart condition or that Trey Mancini has cancer? 

Well they did try and hide Carrasco's for a long time (and it was leukemia, not a heart condition they hid) which lead to all sorts of speculation and rumors.  Props to Mancini for being out front. 

Stupid mindset living back in the 1800's.  It isn't the Mark of Cain to get a disease anymore.  This is the age of transparency and time for MLB to get with the times.  I could see someone like Draft Kings suing them over not disclosing this information immediately since it impacts their business big time.

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10 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Well they did try and hide Carrasco's for a long time (and it was leukemia, not a heart condition they hid) which lead to all sorts of speculation and rumors.  Props to Mancini for being out front. 

Stupid mindset living back in the 1800's.  It isn't the Mark of Cain to get a disease anymore.  This is the age of transparency and time for MLB to get with the times.  I could see someone like Draft Kings suing them over not disclosing this information immediately since it impacts their business big time.

They'd have no legal basis for a civil judgement because their medical privacy is the law.

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20 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

No they aren't.  No one is. Lack of transparency leads to more cases.  A pandemic needs total transparency.  It isn't a privacy issue at all.  Only MLB is making it one.  The NBA is pretty out front in giving names and players there usually step up immediately to say "I have it."  It isn't the scarlet letter.  It isn't something of shame.  It is a disease that is sweeping the country.  Why is MLB trying to hide names?

And I guarantee every player in season -- if there still is one -- that gets it will be found out and it will become far bigger of a deal because MLB is trying to do a cover-up.  Off season so far few people care in the media or fan bases.  But in season everyone will.  And I mean every one from the cabbie that took the player to the restaurant to home town fans to beat reporters looking to break an exclusive to something like Draft Kings who could lose a lot of business because no one knows who has it and who doesn't.  Speaking of which anyone not in the line-up on a regular basis WILL be assumed to have it so some people who did pull their hammy will be assumed to have it leading to panic among people in the service industry etc who had contact with them.

A pandemic almost by definition effects us all and privacy gives way to the greater good.  It is like the mask thing.  You wear them for the greater good of others.  If you test positive for covid you let everyone know right away for the greater good of others.  We are all in this together. 

I get the sentiment but national identification programs tracing your every move are scary for more reasons than disease shame.  It's a hard subject.  

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