Jump to content
Rotoworld.com Forums

2020 August Closer Thread


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 1.2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Doubt the Astros would trade the most important person in their organization.

The Mets

Posted Images

Bad news for all the Romano people like me. Not only was Bass unavailable yesterday and will be available today, but also this...

Ken Giles throwing a bullpen session today. If all goes well he’ll throw another bullpen, move to live BP and then potentially enter the discussion to pitch in games

Hopefully, they are fast-tracking him for a quick MLB audition to show he's healthy then deal him

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, JameisofThrones said:

Bad news for all the Romano people like me. Not only was Bass unavailable yesterday and will be available today, but also this...

Ken Giles throwing a bullpen session today. If all goes well he’ll throw another bullpen, move to live BP and then potentially enter the discussion to pitch in games

Hopefully, they are fast-tracking him for a quick MLB audition to show he's healthy then deal him

Bro, the buffalo blue jays are not sellers... 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, JameisofThrones said:

Bad news for all the Romano people like me. Not only was Bass unavailable yesterday and will be available today, but also this...

Ken Giles throwing a bullpen session today. If all goes well he’ll throw another bullpen, move to live BP and then potentially enter the discussion to pitch in games

Hopefully, they are fast-tracking him for a quick MLB audition to show he's healthy then deal him

 

the blue jays are actively looking for starting pitching, why would they be looking to sell their closer?

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, smeeze said:

Bro, the buffalo blue jays are not sellers... 

 

2 minutes ago, ASHLANDARROWS1992 said:

 

the blue jays are actively looking for starting pitching, why would they be looking to sell their closer?

 

 

I guess the Blue Jays are a likely playoff team at this point. Teams in the Jays position definitely have an interesting decision. Do you try to improve when odds are you are probably going to be two-and-screw in the first round, or sell an asset like Giles who is going to be a free agent. Theoretically, they could do both and use Giles as chip to get starting pitching. If it were me, I'd be listening to offers, although the timetable looks like he probably won't be able to get into a game to prove he's healthy before the deadline. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, ASHLANDARROWS1992 said:

Pressly looked very good tonight..gave up a leadoff “shift” hit to pujols then got two strike outs and a groundout to end it

Catcher pep talk FTW!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Beeks was just taken out due to unknown injury. I really have to laugh at the Rays for this one. He pitched a great 8th and then they decide to stretch him into the 9th. Hurt something around pitch 28. What are they thinking??

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Macgregor said:

I mean, isn't Beeks' thing pitching multiple innings? I know he's been moved into more of a fireman type and even closer now, but you'd think he could go two innings.

Yeah, he's thrown 28 or more pitches in 7 of his 12 outings (including tonight). Not a big stretch to have him get a 2-inning save.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Macgregor said:

I mean, isn't Beeks' thing pitching multiple innings? I know he's been moved into more of a fireman type and even closer now, but you'd think he could go two innings.

I could be wrong but I think the Rays got too cute with their bullpen-logic. Bringing guys in at random points in the game and throwing 25+ pitches any given night. Baseball players are creatures of habit and this sporadic bullpen committee so far appears to have led to insane amounts of injuries.

Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Ecofolux said:

I could be wrong but I think the Rays got too cute with their bullpen-logic. Bringing guys in at random points in the game and throwing 25+ pitches any given night. Baseball players are creatures of habit and this sporadic bullpen committee so far appears to have led to insane amounts of injuries.

 

So here is my rant: Stop speculating on who the Rays closer is. It's a mix of matchups, rest/availability and analytics. They don't give a f--- who closes, they just want to win the game. Which I love as a baseball fan and hate as a fantasy baseball fan. Always, always use you best reliever in the highest leverage situation, whether it be the seventh, eighth or ninth.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, JameisofThrones said:

So here is my rant: Stop speculating on who the Rays closer is. It's a mix of matchups, rest/availability and analytics. They don't give a f--- who closes, they just want to win the game. Which I love as a baseball fan and hate as a fantasy baseball fan. Always, always use you best reliever in the highest leverage situation, whether it be the seventh, eighth or ninth.

While I can't completely disagree with you, this way of thinking is new(er) and still being tested out. It's only of recent this "bring the closer in the 7th" has been implemented more frequently. How many times was Rivera brought in the 7th inning to stop the bleeding for the Yankees? What about Jansen or Papelbon? My point is, the best most dominant guys are saved for the 9th. Are there FREAK times where they will be called upon earlier?...yes. But what the Rays have done is built a cloud of anxiety over their bullpen which has resulted in historical levels of injuries. Just my 2 cents

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Ecofolux said:

While I can't completely disagree with you, this way of thinking is new(er) and still being tested out. It's only of recent this "bring the closer in the 7th" has been implemented more frequently. How many times was Rivera brought in the 7th inning to stop the bleeding for the Yankees? What about Jansen or Papelbon? My point is, the best most dominant guys are saved for the 9th. Are there FREAK times where they will be called upon earlier?...yes. But what the Rays have done is built a cloud of anxiety over their bullpen which has resulted in historical levels of injuries. Just my 2 cents

 

So here is my thing. I love what the Rays and Kevin Cash do with their bullpen as far as trying to win baseball games. No closer, mix and match with availability and lefty/righty and analytics. It sucks for fantasy baseball. I spent last year chasing saves with Alvarado and Castlllo all year last year and they would close, then start, then pitch in the sixth.

And if you spent a high pick on Nick Anderson you deserve to get burned.

If you have all of your bullpen pieces available and you are playing the Angels and Trout and Rendon are coming up in the eighth inning and you don't use your best reliever in that inning because your are saving him for the ninth you should be fired. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JameisofThrones said:

So here is my rant: Stop speculating on who the Rays closer is. It's a mix of matchups, rest/availability and analytics. They don't give a f--- who closes, they just want to win the game. Which I love as a baseball fan and hate as a fantasy baseball fan. Always, always use you best reliever in the highest leverage situation, whether it be the seventh, eighth or ninth.

I concur.

1 hour ago, Ecofolux said:

While I can't completely disagree with you, this way of thinking is new(er) and still being tested out. It's only of recent this "bring the closer in the 7th" has been implemented more frequently.  ...

Actually when you think about it, it isn't new at all.  This is how baseball was always played before LaRussa invented "the closer" to use Eck to max benefit and, baseball being baseball, everyone else started copycatting this.  Before LaRussa, the best relievers were always the firemen.  That is what they were called.  There was even a fireman of the year award in both leagues.  What is old is now suddenly considered "new" but it really isn't new. 

About Beeks:

Quote

Jalen Beeks was removed from an appearance Tuesday night against the Orioles due to an apparent elbow/forearm injury.

Beeks was in the game for a potential two-inning save opportunity, but he got lifted shortly after recording the first out in the top of the ninth. Edgar Garcia replaced him on the mound and finished off the 4-2 victory over the O's. Rays manager Kevin Cash didn't have much information to share in his postgame Zoom chat with reporters, but he did note that it "sounded similar" to Andrew Kittredge's UCL tear from earlier this season.

Source: Juan Toribio on Twitter            Aug 25, 2020, 9:21 PM ET

That's not good hearing.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Actually when you think about it, it isn't new at all.  This is how baseball was always played before LaRussa invented "the closer" to use Eck to max benefit and, baseball being baseball, everyone else started copycatting this.  Before LaRussa, the best relievers were always the firemen.  That is what they were called.  There was even a fireman of the year award in both leagues.  What is old is now suddenly considered "new" but it really isn't new. 

Interesting. I'm unfamiliar with old school baseball. I grew up watching baseball from the mid 90's. I still stand by the point that there should be more structure in the bullpen. Look at Raisel Iglesias as an example. Consistently underperformed in anything BUT the closer roll. He was actually outspoken about it, calling out the manager for using him in different circumstances. Granted he didn't get injured from the sporadic use but I think the element of surprise has hurt the Rays bullpen.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

I concur.

Actually when you think about it, it isn't new at all.  This is how baseball was always played before LaRussa invented "the closer" to use Eck to max benefit and, baseball being baseball, everyone else started copycatting this.  Before LaRussa, the best relievers were always the firemen.  That is what they were called.  There was even a fireman of the year award in both leagues.  What is old is now suddenly considered "new" but it really isn't new. 

About Beeks:

That's not good hearing.

 

was looking at those "fireman of the yea" awards and it seemed like in 1985 and 1986 when reardon and worell won the awards was when "closers" started pitching LESS than 100 innings in a season...before that, almost all of those "closers" that won the award and racked up alot of saves were throwing 130+ innings a year

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Ecofolux said:

While I can't completely disagree with you, this way of thinking is new(er) and still being tested out. It's only of recent this "bring the closer in the 7th" has been implemented more frequently. How many times was Rivera brought in the 7th inning to stop the bleeding for the Yankees? What about Jansen or Papelbon? My point is, the best most dominant guys are saved for the 9th. Are there FREAK times where they will be called upon earlier?...yes. But what the Rays have done is built a cloud of anxiety over their bullpen which has resulted in historical levels of injuries. Just my 2 cents

 

RP's are supposed to be able to come into the game when they are needed, most of the RP's the rays have each season were not Closers ever in their career, many bullpens have had undefined roles, i dont think "anxiety" about roles is what is causing injuries 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Ecofolux said:

Interesting. I'm unfamiliar with old school baseball. I grew up watching baseball from the mid 90's. I still stand by the point that there should be more structure in the bullpen. Look at Raisel Iglesias as an example. Consistently underperformed in anything BUT the closer roll. He was actually outspoken about it, calling out the manager for using him in different circumstances. Granted he didn't get injured from the sporadic use but I think the element of surprise has hurt the Rays bullpen.

 

An interesting read on the evolution of the "closer" in baseball...

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1623966-the-evolution-of-the-star-closer-in-major-league-baseball

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, jmcampbe11 said:

An interesting read on the evolution of the "closer" in baseball...

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1623966-the-evolution-of-the-star-closer-in-major-league-baseball

Thanks.  A really detailed article.  Excerpt from what I had been talking about when the modern closer came into being:

Quote

The stage was thus set for baseball's first truly modern closer to come along. That happened when Tony La Russa came up with an idea for how to use starter-turned-reliever Dennis Eckersley in 1988.

La Russa made Eckersley his closer, and he developed a system designed to leave him  with comparatively little work to do when it was his turn to enter the game. As Tom Verducci of Sports Illustrated recalled in 2011:

In order to give closer Dennis Eckersley as much of a clean window to close games -- to start the ninth inning with nobody on base -- as he could, La Russa used a parade of lefthanded and righthanded specialists, not to mention sinkerballers and power pitchers, to create matchups in his favor. He would avoid intentional walks or overusing his closer by using as many arms as possible to create matchup advantages.

La Russa's system worked. Per FanGraphs, his A's had the fifth-best bullpen ERA in the league in 1988, and Eckersley needed only 72.2 innings to save 45 games. Of his 60 appearances, only 23 lasted longer than one inning.

Eckersley went on to set a new record for relievers with a 0.61 ERA in 1990, and he was the American League Cy Young and MVP when he saved 51 games in 1992.

By then, there were others like him, and many more would come.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Thanks.  A really detailed article.  Excerpt from what I had been talking about when the modern closer came into being:

 

 

Yep. We can blame Tony LaRussa for ruining baseball and saddling us all with this terrible fantasy category. 

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Kela hasnt picked up a baseball yet since being hurt but was available yesterday...🤔

Tryin to trade him much Pittsburgh?...i get it but wow...teams conduct physicals right???

Either way, Richie Rod time imo!

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Defined roles are great when you can roll out Greene, Britton, and Chapman, but if you're the Rays you have to milk those small edges and you can't argue with the success they've had as a small market team.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...