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Waiver Strategy

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All is fair in love and war. Fantasy football is war. It’s called gamesmanship and when it’s a strategy that is within the rules, it’s fair game regardless of what you think about it. The same people bitching about this strategy in here would just as likely clap for Belichick the next time he “outsmarts” his opponents by taking advantage of a rule the rest of them aren’t paying attention to or don’t understand. It’s my job to maximize the chances I win, and it’s your job to do that in any way you see fit. If my opponent has a weakness and I can do something within the rules to exploit it, I will do it until I’m no longer allowed to do it by the rules. Call it churning, call it a DB move, whatever. Unless it’s a league rule, or the platform prevents me from doing it, if it gives me the best chance to win I’m going to do it. If you don’t like it maybe there’s a kindergarten league you can play where you play by the rules, but also play by another special set of rules that make sure nobody gets their feelings hurt. We wouldn’t want competition and ingenuity to get in the way of everyone feeling like they have an equal chance without putting in equal effort. 

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Posted (edited)

fantasy football is a meta game where we pick players and put them in line ups which is cool and all, but we're choosing to play the meta within the meta which makes it fun. after it happens to someone once, guess what they'll learn not to wait until the last minute, perhaps dropping a valuable lottery ticket that you've been eyeing. do everything you can to help your team and put other teams at a disadvantage, within the rules of course. play chess folks, not tic tac toe.

Edited by shenaulty

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Someone did that last year to a guy who didnt realize in the middle of the week that Cam Newton was already ruled out. On Sunday morning he put every QB on waivers, EXCEPT Kyle Allen for some reason, who was Cam's replacement. Kyle Allen had like 30 that week.

 

He lost and he wasn't invited back this year 

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3 minutes ago, shenaulty said:

fantasy football is a meta game where we pick players and put them in line ups which is cool and all, but we're choosing to play the meta within the meta which makes it fun. after it happens to someone once, guess what they'll learn not to wait until the last minute, perhaps dropping a valuable lottery ticket that you've been eyeing. do everything you can to help your team and put other teams at a disadvantage, within the rules of course. play checkers folks, not tic tac toe.

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6 minutes ago, CooL said:

Exactly.  If after you pick up Teddy Bridgewater as your third QB on a team where you have Mahomes and Russel Wilson, it's obvious what the intent is.  Then your opponent should go in and immediately pick up Fitz or Cousins.  If your opponent just sits idly by while you make a move on Saturday and then another on Sunday morning, then that's his own darn fault.  Again, fantasy football is not "everyone gets a soccer trophy", at least my league isn't.

Sites don't allow you to block 15 QBs as you suggest.

They used to though. Even yahoo 

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8 minutes ago, shenaulty said:

fantasy football is a meta game where we pick players and put them in line ups which is cool and all, but we're choosing to play the meta within the meta which makes it fun. after it happens to someone once, guess what they'll learn not to wait until the last minute, perhaps dropping a valuable lottery ticket that you've been eyeing. do everything you can to help your team and put other teams at a disadvantage, within the rules of course. play chess folks, not tic tac toe.

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8 minutes ago, Klientel said:

Someone did that last year to a guy who didnt realize in the middle of the week that Cam Newton was already ruled out. On Sunday morning he put every QB on waivers, EXCEPT Kyle Allen for some reason, who was Cam's replacement. Kyle Allen had like 30 that week.

 

He lost and he wasn't invited back this year 

What? You guys are babies. Good for that dude, he played the game better but got unlucky.

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it's a s---y move and I wouldn't do it in any leagues I play in nor would it be allowed in any leagues I play in. Anybody who did that probably wouldn't be invited back next season. Keep in mind I only play with people I actually know IRL. Maybe just use that roster spot to try to improve your own team so you don't have to resort to "well it's not TECHNICALLY against the rules" stuff to get a win? At some point you need to stop being clever and just play the damn game. 

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8 minutes ago, StevieStats said:

What? You guys are babies. Good for that dude, he played the game better but got unlucky.

Better?  I’d say he got burned big time. 

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47 minutes ago, CooL said:

I respect your opinion.  But "hardcore" and "no money involved" just doesn't seem to jive.  So you're just playing for bragging rights?  You spend all the time and research and money for paid sites just to be able to have the right to say you finished first?  To each their own.

 

Yeah. I don't want to sound like a douche, but honestly, I love FF and I'm a bit of a child, and so I don't need money to be involved to be competitive. And no, I don't spend money for paid sites 😃, although I guess...to each their own. Yeah, I'm playing for ***** and giggles. Do you not enjoy FF on its own merits? If not, there are better ways to make money.

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1 hour ago, StevieStats said:

What? You guys are babies. Good for that dude, he played the game better but got unlucky.

Eh, I think it's BS to pick everyone up and cut them. I'm glad platforms have largely limited that type of churning. Holding someone a day and churning is probably fair, but the immediate churning is BS.

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6 minutes ago, AnonymousRob said:

Eh, I think it's BS to pick everyone up and cut them. I'm glad platforms have largely limited that type of churning. Holding someone a day and churning is probably fair, but the immediate churning is BS.

My leagues have pretty much all been Yahoo... Gotta hold 1 day... Id agree pick up and drop same day hitting waivers is just bad league settings.

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6 minutes ago, AnonymousRob said:

Eh, I think it's BS to pick everyone up and cut them. I'm glad platforms have largely limited that type of churning. Holding someone a day and churning is probably fair, but the immediate churning is BS.

 

Churning is a bush league move, wrap it up. 

Better off not playing with people like that. 

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36 minutes ago, leffe186 said:

 

Yeah. I don't want to sound like a douche, but honestly, I love FF and I'm a bit of a child, and so I don't need money to be involved to be competitive. And no, I don't spend money for paid sites 😃, although I guess...to each their own. Yeah, I'm playing for ***** and giggles. Do you not enjoy FF on its own merits? If not, there are better ways to make money.

I don't play for the money.  But even if top prize is a couple hundred dollars and there is a weekly top score prize, it's enough to at least maintain interest in the league.

I'm not sure how engaged I would be if I was just playing for sh1ts and giggles, I've got better things to be doing.

 

3 minutes ago, AnonymousRob said:

Eh, I think it's BS to pick everyone up and cut them. I'm glad platforms have largely limited that type of churning. Holding someone a day and churning is probably fair, but the immediate churning is BS.

Immediate churning and locking is not possible anymore, so that's moot.  Picking up a player, waiting a day, etc.  That's perfectly fair.  If your opponent without a QB didn't want you to do it, then he/she should have been more proactive.  Those that are more engaged reap the rewards.

I'm quite shocked at all the "that's not fair". "that's douchebag move", "we don't play like that" comments.... because  you would think that those of us that spend time on these forums when we probably should be doing our day job are some of the most intense and engaged fantasy football players.  So wouldn't this fall under the realm of smart strategy?  I'm quite shocked at some of the responses here.  But I didn't grow up in the generation where we all got soccer trophies, so maybe that's why I fight and claw for everything I can get and know that the world is not fair and that there isn't an even playing field.

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5 minutes ago, StevieStats said:

My leagues have pretty much all been Yahoo... Gotta hold 1 day... Id agree pick up and drop same day hitting waivers is just bad league settings.

ESPN is the same I'm pretty sure, same day transactions will revert to FA

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On Sleeper you can definitely pick up a Thursday night player and drop them before the weekend if they never cracked your lineup. Did it with Vaughn last night. Haven't tried it on ESPN yet.

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I think a lot of this comes down to knowing your league. If it's a casual league, daily churning is probably a questionable move, because a cutthroat attitude is not the goal of the league. A good commissioner should probably make sure everyone is on the same page before the season starts. Both mindsets are okay because there are a lot of league setups and all of them are fine as long as everyone is on the same page. It becomes a problem when most of the league thinks it's x, and some other owners think y. 

 

 

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If you're playing in a Yahoo Public League, it is against the rules and could get your team frozen or potentially your account suspended.  They don't police private leagues though. From Yahoo's website:

 

Fair play rules

Yahoo requires all managers agree to some basic rules to keep things fair.

  • Don't engage in any collusive action.
  • Don't drop or dump players from their team with malicious intent.
  • Don't take any action where its purpose would hinder fair play in the league.
  • Don't make roster moves that will intentionally hamper the play of other managers

 

Penalties for rule breakers

Yahoo won't remove teams from a league post-draft, however, we will restrict the offending manager by suspending aspects of their game, including:

  • Some or all league privileges, such as trading, message board posting, or editing their roster.
  • Deactivation and removal of their Yahoo Account from all leagues and Fantasy games.
  • Any other action that Yahoo, at our sole discretion, feels necessary to restore fair play.

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Been playing FF for 20 years now, and here's my approach:

I add/cut players to improve my team, and my team ONLY. And, I don't pick-up and drop players I don't want or need only to c__k-block someone else. 

Play your own way but I stand by what I said before...it's bush league. 

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49 minutes ago, codyodea said:

On Sleeper you can definitely pick up a Thursday night player and drop them before the weekend if they never cracked your lineup. Did it with Vaughn last night. Haven't tried it on ESPN yet.

Rosters lock on ESPN except for those sweet sweet COVID bye week players

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Churning is not cool. 

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8 hours ago, FitzMagic said:

Anybody who does that is a low-down, dirty, ruthless vato. But I like it.

tenor.gif

 

I didn't know you like to get wet.

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This has never been an issue in my long term dynasty league. It happens from time to time but it's strikes me as more lame to complain about it in a competitive league than someone trying to win within the rules.  

 

And there's the key word... You need to address this in the RULES of your league!  Weekly move limits are an absolutely necessary. No one should have ever been allowed to "pick up 15 QBs" as was suggested above. If your rules are intelligently thought out, you protect against exploits.  Some people will absolutely abuse an exploit. If you don't want people to abuse the rules, FIX THEM!

 

I think the more shameful thing here is the one allowing himself to be a victim. If you are waiting til Sunday to set your roster, you aren't really being a good competitor because you are getting the leftover scraps of the week anyway.  Unless you have another agenda like waiting on a game time decision. You took the risk and exposed yourself! Live with it or play less risky.   

 

There's risk in not actively setting your lineup earlier in the week and even allowing your opponent the opportunity to attempt to block strong options in free agency.  Free agents are free. They are liable to be picked up at any moment, so I have no pity on the owner who is either not paying attention or one that has some ulterior motive (not sure who to drop, waiting til the last moment to speculate on players in early games, trying to work a 2 for 1 trade during the week to free up a roster spot on Sunday).

 

It's all about risk/reward. I've been on either side of the situations described and it's all fair game in a competitive league.

 

Example: week 1 I didn't have a kicker rostered because I like to roster speculative pickups from the early window of games and I stream kickers anyway. If one of my speculative adds doesn't impress and I know I can send him back to the wire and still pick him up later, I drop that player for a kicker. 

Risk: some other owner could pick up a bunch of kickers for the late window games before I make my decision.

Reward: I hit on some of my adds that otherwise would have been top week 2 waiver adds, the most active waiver week of the season nearly ever year.

Bonus: my opponent picked up 3 kickers Sunday, dropping bench players, some of which were scooped by other teams on week 2 waivers while I just picked up one of the other kickers 😂

My opponent had his own set of risk and desired reward considerations. We both played the game to win. I got to see which of my bench players was the safest drop as my reward for risking not having a kicker rostered until late in the early window games.

 

Tl;dr: Crying is not allowed in fantasy foosball.  Play to win the game.  Crap rules are crap rules. Try harder.

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7 hours ago, CooL said:

You only need one bench spot to block/churn.  You have to hold the player one calendar day anyway.  If you have a spot that is disposable, why not?

 - but if a player is on waivers for like 2 days before being available again, and you use one bench spot, you can only cycle 1 player/day and in 2 days they are again FA so you can drop a player maybe Fri and Sat who will be on waivers for Sunday but if you churn and drop someone on a Thurs they should be able to be picked up before games on Sunday.  So you can really only lock up 2, max 3 players with 1 bench spot i believe

 

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