kmoore1521

2020 World Series Thread

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I get that TB are the underdogs, for good reason, and I usually root for the underdogs myself.  But, LOL at picking who you root for based on who has the cheaper owner.  Betts and Kershaw get paid because they have proven over and over that they are elite.  Once they are rewarded for their production, we're supposed to root against them?  Why applaud Tampa's owner for not spending on talent?  Gotta have some weird-ash values to root for owners' pocketbooks over the actual talent that provides us with entertainment.  Meanwhile Mookie was outside Fenway at 2 am handing out meals to the homeless last time he played in the WS.  But yeah, now he dares to get paid more - eff him!  

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7 minutes ago, OaksterDan said:

I get that TB are the underdogs, for good reason, and I usually root for the underdogs myself.  But, LOL at picking who you root for based on who has the cheaper owner.  Betts and Kershaw get paid because they have proven over and over that they are elite.  Once they are rewarded for their production, we're supposed to root against them?  Why applaud Tampa's owner for not spending on talent?  Gotta have some weird-ash values to root for owners' pocketbooks over the actual talent that provides us with entertainment.  Meanwhile Mookie was outside Fenway at 2 am handing out meals to the homeless last time he played in the WS.  But yeah, now he dares to get paid more - eff him!  

 

Rays were founded in 1998, team hasnt been around long enough for the owner to pay big bucks, its more acknowledging the skill it takes to compete with the biggest payrolls and admiring the success. Any team can throw money at talent hence why when small market teams make it they are generally rooted for.

 

I'm not sure whos saying eff Mookie and company because they got paid, big talent gets big bucks, i think you combined two separate discussions 

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1 hour ago, kmoore1521 said:

Rays were founded in 1998, team hasnt been around long enough for the owner to pay big buck

 

In what universe do owners buy a team as an asset to hold for more than two decades in order to be successful?  Taking revenues as profit instead of pouring them back into the team payroll is a choice made by ownership, not a law of physics.  Some owners are even happy to lose money in order to win.  I applaud the Rays doing more with less than most teams, but I don't have to have sympathy for them when they come up just short because they won't go the extra mile salary-wise to get over the top.

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31 minutes ago, tonycpsu said:

 

In what universe do owners buy a team as an asset to hold for more than two decades in order to be successful?  Taking revenues as profit instead of pouring them back into the team payroll is a choice made by ownership, not a law of physics.  Some owners are even happy to lose money in order to win.  I applaud the Rays doing more with less than most teams, but I don't have to have sympathy for them when they come up just short because they won't go the extra mile salary-wise to get over the top.

 

They have so much financial flexibility though!

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26 minutes ago, tonycpsu said:

In what universe do owners buy a team as an asset to hold for more than two decades in order to be successful?  Taking revenues as profit instead of pouring them back into the team payroll is a choice made by ownership, not a law of physics.  Some owners are even happy to lose money in order to win.  I applaud the Rays doing more with less than most teams, but I don't have to have sympathy for them when they come up just short because they won't go the extra mile salary-wise to get over the top.

 

They 100% could afford to pay a guy or two if they really wanted to, my point stems from needing to create that fan base, revenues etc to be able to pay players due to being a new team

Which is different from ownership simply changing for an established team, but again without actually seeing their books and finances hard to say how cheap they actually are id be VERY curious to know hah

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6 minutes ago, kmoore1521 said:

They 100% could afford to pay a guy or two if they really wanted to, my point stems from needing to create that fan base, revenues etc to be able to pay players due to being a new team

 

Oh, there are definitely structural problems to building a fan base in the Tampa/St. Petersburg area, and I'm not trying to minimize those.  Still, the owners are the ones who decided to try to make it work, so they get the credit for the good and the blame for the bad.  The Rockies are only 5 years older than the Rays, and their payroll is twice that of the Rays.  Same goes for the Diamondbacks, who entered the league the same year as the Rays.  Are conditions better in Denver and Phoenix to sustain a fan base?  Yeah, sure.  But "they've only had 22 years" doesn't really work as an excuse.

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Rays would be better off in Tampa, not St. Pete. That's the real problem. We love our teams and they'd be perfect in that Ybor City location, but then I don't think the taxpayers want to foot the bill either for the new park. The fanbase is there, because TV viewership is very high. They just don't travel to St. Pete because of the traffic across that bridge. St. Pete and Clearwater actually have the population alone to support the team, but they don't. Always depending on Tampa residents. I believe if something was worked out to where they were able to move to Tampa then attendance would dramatically increase and the purse strings would be wide open. 

 

As far as the World Series goes, they need to get back to what got them here. I was shocked they kept Glasnow in so long. That's not how they got to this point.

Edited by FitzMagic

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1 minute ago, tonycpsu said:

 

Oh, there are definitely structural problems to building a fan base in the Tampa/St. Petersburg area, and I'm not trying to minimize those.  Still, the owners are the ones who decided to try to make it work, so they get the credit for the good and the blame for the bad.  The Rockies are only 5 years older than the Rays, and their payroll is twice that of the Rays.  Same goes for the Diamondbacks, who entered the league the same year as the Rays.  Are conditions better in Denver and Phoenix to sustain a fan base?  Yeah, sure.  But "they've only had 22 years" doesn't really work as an excuse.

 

The only 22 years thing shouldn't be an excuse for anything i agree, just a factor to take into account when forming opinions

I'm not trying to say the Rays owner isn't a cheap a** either hah (no idea why they didn't go harder for Nelson Cruz, was a perfect fit smh) he should get blame for not spending more while also acknowledging he doesn't have as much to work with as most teams, its weird seeing people react negatively to the Rays due to casual fans rooting for the smaller payroll 

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As a Rays fan, it pains me to say this...and most of us already probably know this...but, this will likely finally be the year for the Los Angeles Dodgers.

Aside from the Braves absolute implosion during the NLCS, along with multiple base-running miscues (of all things), the Dodgers found their way to the WS.

With that being said, it almost feels like a foregone conclusion that this will be a 4-1 or possibly even a 4-0 series win for the Dodgers. The Dodgers just have too many things going for them that my Tampa Bay Rays don't.

 

- Dodgers Payroll vs Tampa Bay Payroll: You can tout all you want about how "the payroll and money don't mean a thing" and that the Dodgers have a ton of "homegrown talent" from their farm system (which is true, they have a really good farm system). But the fact remains. The Dodgers are big spenders. And that helps them tremendously. They went out and traded for Mookie Betts, who in my opinion, is easily a Top-3 player in the MLB right now. Having him alone is enough to put them over the top. And some might say "well 1 guy doesn't change anything"....The fact is, imagine if the Rays had Mookie. You'd instantly say, "holy crap, that lineup just got a whole lot better". Combo the fact that they have the money to keep all of their "farm system" guys they've developed throughout the years (Bellinger, Kershaw, Seager, Kenley, etc...). The Rays, unfortunately, are known for giving players away once the demand for what they'll have to eventually pay them starts to rise.

- TB starting pitching isn't good enough...And I'd argue that our bullpen isn't either: Glasnow is a great case of a pitcher who excels against "weaker opponents", but stumbles when he faces top-tier offensive lineups. It's part of the reason why his postseason ERA is above 5.00+. Snell....I'm not even sure what's happened to Snell. He looked great, and this year (and partially last year), he's having trouble locating his pitches, and can't seem to make good pitches when they count. He's suddenly gone from being what I considered an A- kind of pitcher to a B- pitcher. If he can go 5 IP and not give up more than 3 ER, I consider that a win. Morton is by far our best pitcher, and if there's a game we win in this series, it'll likely be the one he's pitching in. And as for our bullpen? It's awesome. But...They're tired. They've been used so much this post season, it feels like all of them are tired. It feels like aside from Morton, our SP goes 3-5 IP, and then are forced to use 3-4 relievers every game. The fact that we lost guys like Chirinos earlier this season doesn't help.

- Dodgers offense >>>>> greater than the Rays offense: It's kind of funny. This was a year (going in as a Rays fanatic), that I believed "we'll make it to the ALCS, but 2021 will likely be the year we go back to the WS". Interestingly enough, our team has overcome multiple obstacles, and pretty much crawled their way to the World Series. But look at our batting lineup and batting averages. We've got 1 guy whose hitting over .290 BA...Yandy Diaz hitting .143 BA....Willy Adames hitting .125 BA....Austin Meadows hitting .108 BA....and Brandon Lowe....hitting .107 BA....Arozarena is the only "everyday" hitter on our roster whose hitting above .270 BA. It's amazing to me that when you look at our lineup...we've somehow made it this far. Through defense and "clutch" hits. Dodgers lineup? Every single person in that lineup feels like a threat. Betts, Bellinger, Turner, Smith, Barnes, Kike, Seager. The Rays, whether they want to believe it or not, need to be in a position this offseason to go out and either sign/trade for a bonafide hitter for the middle of our lineup. We've got Wander and Brujan coming up next season, which will help a TON. But in terms of this post season...we just don't match up well with teams who can score 5-10 runs a game.

- It feels like an AWAY game: Watching the game in Texas last night...it feels like every game is going to be an away game. The building was filled with Dodgers fans, and it felt like every time the Dodgers needed a crowd, they got a crowd.

 

About the only hope that I have is history. Historically speaking, the Dodgers have imploded in the post season going back to 2010. I feel like that's about the only hope we have right now, is that one of either Gosselin, Buehler or Kershaw's second turn, that one or two of them implode. But in all likelihood, this will be the Dodgers season. Their offense is too good, and their pitching is stable enough to not give up a ton of runs. Here's to hoping that Dave Roberts does something stupid again :D. Watch out for our Rays offense next season though ;)

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Lol. And just when I said we needed someone on the Dodgers to implode...

 

Almost on cue, Dave Roberts decides to implode before the game even started by not starting Buehler. Another check mark on a long list of highly questionable decisions he’s made through the years.

 

Thanks Dave!

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17 minutes ago, CORTEz said:

Lol. And just when I said we needed someone on the Dodgers to implode...

 

Almost on cue, Dave Roberts decides to implode before the game even started by not starting Buehler. Another check mark on a long list of highly questionable decisions he’s made through the years.

 

Thanks Dave!

Yea, I didnt get this decision either. Play your best guys and try and go up 2-0.

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On 10/20/2020 at 9:53 AM, kmoore1521 said:

Image

 

RAYS UP

Rays in 6 

I get the angst against their payroll, but a lot of it goes to retention of homegrown talent (Bett$ notwithstanding):

https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/depth-charts/dodgers

 

Its not like they are some free agent super team 

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Watching this world series is hard. So few Tampa players ever get on base. No reason for pitchers to even pitch around any Ray since they can't hit. A-Roz the only impact bat they have and he never has a baserunner on. The saddest thing is it doesn't matter who is batting for the Rays you know they are an auto-out.

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Just how many times can Dave Roberts make the wrong decision and/or implode in a season?

You're talking about a beloved manager, who just can't seem to make the right pitching decision to save his life. His knack for getting "too cute" with pitching changes is quickly getting old with Dodger fans.

 

As a Rays fanatic, we came into this season feeling like we're still a "year away". Deep playoff push, but not enough offense to get over the hump. But not only do we keep battling, we keep pouncing on Dave Roberts and the Dodgers mistakes. Our Rays team is literally the definition of HEART.

I said earlier, the Rays actually have a shot if Dave Roberts and his pitchers implode. And so far, they've imploded twice. Mostly due to Roberts incompetence when it comes to making bone-headed pitching changes.

If you had told me without showing me the score that: Justin Turner and Corey Seager both had 4 hits, 2 HRs and that the Dodgers scored 7 "2-out" runs, I would've guess the score woulda been 12-2 Dodgers. Not 8-7 Rays.

We are literally one Kershaw implosion away from the Dodgers being in serious trouble. And if that happens, we could be looking at an all-time epic Dodgers collapse, one of such epic proportions that it will shake the baseball universe.

Dave Roberts reaction tonight told the story. His job is officially on the line right now. It's SHIP or BUST now for Roberts.

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5 hours ago, CORTEz said:

Just how many times can Dave Roberts make the wrong decision and/or implode in a season?

Dave Roberts reaction tonight told the story. His job is officially on the line right now. It's SHIP or BUST now for Roberts.

Completely agree, and its going to be interesting tonight to see what he does if Kershaw gets into a jam before the 6th in a close game. He obviously managed his bullpen in Game 4 intending to get 6+ from Kershaw in Game 5, but if he sticks with Kershaw too long it could be his undoing. The Dodgers still look good to win in 7, but Roberts is doing everything he can to mismanage their chances. 

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Arozarena has a record setting HR/FB of 200% in the postseason 

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5 minutes ago, Fuzzy_Slippers said:

I hate the Dodgers, but the Rays deserve to lose. There was no reason to take Snell out. 

 

No ****. It's bad enough we are subjected to Man Choi hitting at the top of the lineup, now this. Cash should just have gotten out of the way.

Make them beat your BEST, especially when your best is pitching like the best. Cash may have lost this World Series.

Edited by kwolf68

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Just tragic, why yank Snell who was dominating 16 of 18 batters. It was two singles he gave up.  The fix is in I guess.

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Cash getting high on Dave Roberts' supply. Can't even say they were too beholden to the numbers since pretty much all the numbers all said let Snell pitch to Mookie. Baffling. 

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Such a sad ERA of baseball. No way you pull Snell there, no &^%$ing way!!

What happened to old school baseball where you ride your studs, they get the job done!

 

Today's pretty boy baseball is so freakin lame, everyone gets to pitch 2 innings and everyone gets a participation star.

 

DISGRACE

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