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2020 World Series Thread

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2 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

It it clear some people don't understand how baseball cycles through and how mega-contracts or "feeding the beast" as Theo once confessed to leads to lack of long term sustainability.  Thus they don't understand contracts, flexibility and the economics of devastating their team long term.

 

Mega contracts in which the final years are negative value for the team have been part of the game for a long time now, in large part due to the distorted salary structure that doesn't adequately compensate players during their peak years.  Trying to justify not paying a generational talent by suggesting that there will be a long-term commitment is a failure to count the profits you collected while that same player was under contract at far below market value for his production.  That's not to say that teams don't have the option to have someone else foot the bill for the negative value years, but considering we have no idea what a post-2021 CBA looks like, you can't slavishly adhere to spreadsheets based on the current rules.

A team that's really thinking long-term would factor in the strong possibility that the CBA forces the pay scale to look more proportional to player value, where years of team control are ceded in exchange for a rebalancing of the free agency pay scale.  Having paid fair value for the early years, teams can then rightfully tell players to pound sand if the player is asking for too much on the back end of their deal.  To fail to account for this is to cherry pick a definition of "long term" that blindly supports the actions of the team.

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3 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Lol.  The trade was really good.  For the Red Sox.  Betts has the body type that will break down sooner than later and will become the Pujols of the Dodgers as he declines.  Will he have a few more good seasons?  I sure hope so.  But that mega-contract will come back to haunt LA big time.  They will be forced to trade those juicy, young prospects when they can't afford them in a few years because of said contract.  So enjoy the run while you can.  It it clear some people don't understand how baseball cycles through and how mega-contracts or "feeding the beast" as Theo once confessed to leads to lack of long term sustainability.  Thus they don't understand contracts, flexibility and the economics of devastating their team long term.  Again.  Enjoy it while it lasts.  The Dodgers could barely beat TB, a club with one of the lowest payrolls in all of baseball.  The Rays will be contenders for years now.  Not so much the Dodgers.

https://dodgersway.com/2020/07/22/dodgers-mookie-betts-extension-cody-bellinger-walker-buehler/#:~:text=Justin Turner%2C Joc Pederson%2C Enrique,cap space being freed up.

 They'll resign Turner on a short term deal next season. Then the following season Jansen and Kershaw are off the books, freeing up another $50+ mil. They'll probably resign Kershaw to a shorter team deal, Jansen is 50/50. Probably will have to make a decision between Taylor, Pederson, and Hernandez though. On top of that the Dodgers still have one of the best farm system in the league. Sorry bud but the Dodgers will be in contention for years and even if they don't they won the World Series again after 32 years, just with that alone the Betts trade was worth it.

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With the Dodgers winning it sure made it feel like the season was a complete waste of time...  The playoffs were pretty much like that...

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34 minutes ago, DezedandConfused said:

https://dodgersway.com/2020/07/22/dodgers-mookie-betts-extension-cody-bellinger-walker-buehler/#:~:text=Justin Turner%2C Joc Pederson%2C Enrique,cap space being freed up.

 They'll resign Turner on a short term deal next season. Then the following season Jansen and Kershaw are off the books, freeing up another $50+ mil. They'll probably resign Kershaw to a shorter team deal, Jansen is 50/50. Probably will have to make a decision between Taylor, Pederson, and Hernandez though. On top of that the Dodgers still have one of the best farm system in the league. Sorry bud but the Dodgers will be in contention for years and even if they don't they won the World Series again after 32 years, just with that alone the Betts trade was worth it.

 

Betts has 12 more years? To put that in perspective, during the time of this contract 18 teams are guaranteed to not win the world series while Betts is a Dodger. That number is likely higher since someone probably wins more than one. Also higher if there are expansion teams.  Do I want the Dodgers to win another one if not more? Yes, of course.  If they don't, I'll be perfectly happy with winning one because of that trade. 

 

The Dodgers will 100% going into 2021 as favorites based on their major league team alone. Not sure what more a Dodger fan can ask for? Their minor league farm is closer to 5 overall than 10th.  Which is nuts.  This is the same  team that turned Turner/Muncy into superstar players after being disregarded.  Like yes, it's possible in 5 years the Dodgers miss the playoffs or under 500, the same could be said about ANY team.  I'm not particularly worried about a baseball team in 5 years. Based on their payroll, scouting, and development, I'm guessing they will be fine if not very good.

 

 

Edited by brockpapersizer
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48 minutes ago, posty said:

With the Dodgers winning it sure made it feel like the season was a complete waste of time...  The playoffs were pretty much like that...

 

Because the best team won?  I'm OK canceling the 2021 season and giving the Dodgers another one if it makes it easier for you to deal with.

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I hope Turner gets a serious suspension...like half the 2021 season. He likely consciously made the decision to ignore the rules because he knows whatever slap on the wrist he will get from ignoring them will be worth it to celebrate with his teammates. So athletes like him can make that choice and put others in harms way but regular citizens can't travel from NY due to travel restrictions?...The double standard and the entitlement that idiots like Justin Turner has is frustrating.

Edited by ThreadKiller

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9 minutes ago, brockpapersizer said:

 

Because the best team won?  I'm OK canceling the 2021 season and giving the Dodgers another one if it makes it easier for you to deal with.

 

Sounds good...  A lot of chalk isn't necessarily a good thing...

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10 minutes ago, posty said:

 

Sounds good...  A lot of chalk isn't necessarily a good thing...

 

Yes thats why you play fantasy baseball, "100% random"

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15 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

We are happy, thank you.  Congrats to the Dodgers who are FINALLY not a bridesmaid this time around.  But I don;t envy them their payroll handicap moving forward with Bett's contract.  And Betts would have been a waste on a Red Sox team with no pitching at all and he was definitely NOT going to come back to Boston so I wish him well but am really glad Sox aren't stuck with that contract.  They have enough stupid mega ones to deal with still as it is.

This isn’t the $/war Olympics. I’m stunned that you could possibly have such a bad opinion on this issue. Mookie could be a complete pumpkin for the next 12 years and I wouldn’t even care man, this is the first Dodgers World Series in my life (born in 89, dodgers last won in 88. We don’t win this WS (much less make the WS) without mookie’s stellar defense and clutch offense.

this is all besides the fact that your statements about Mookie’s imminent decline is literally nothing but speculation.

Big deals often look bad near the end of the deal. They are often bargains in the front end. And like everything in life, contracts and prices and everything goes up as the dollar gets devalued and inflation happens.

Mookie is very likely an all star player for many more years, some of which he will be an MVP candidate. As a fan, I’m not crying about the money it cost. Why would I care? The dodgers make plenty of money on their micheladas from me, and billionaires are billionaires.

You’re the only Red Sox fan I know who is happy Mookie is gone, and I’m honestly not sure if you’re trolling or not, that’s how bizarre and bad your take is.

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By the way, it’s absolutely embarrassing that an historic franchise like the Red Sox are penny pinching and playing loser ball / tanking.

they would be WS caliber if they paid for Mookie, paid for some solid pitchers like lynn, and gave a damn.

they’re a massive media market, massive franchise, amazing baseball city. The fans deserve better than the steaming s**t Red Sox management decided to take on the fans.

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26 minutes ago, fawkes_mulder said:

You’re the only Red Sox fan I know who is happy Mookie is gone, and I’m honestly not sure if you’re trolling or not, that’s how bizarre and bad your take is.
 

Wrong.  Many many New Englanders loved the move.  Again, do you people not understand, the Sox offered him a big contract the year before.  He made it crystal clear he did NOT intend to return to Boston.  Period.  Everyone in these parts that pay attention to these things know that.  Were the Red Sox, with no decent pitching to compete, to keep him on the roster for one more year and lose him to FA and get nothing in return?  I'm loving Verdugo so far and can't wait for Jeter Downs to come up. 

But maybe you think NOT having those two in Boston and not having Betts as well was the right move for the Sox.  Why? Sox scored something (Verdugo & Downs) for nothing (Betts was half way out the door already and gone completely in 2021) so yeah I totally completely 100% love the deal.

Also the Sox are NOT penny pinching.  That is totally ridiculous. John Henry has thrown more money into the team than ever.  The fact that they have the highest payroll in baseball is the reason they had to reset.  Not for the money penalties and you know that too.  You know how the penalties snowball each year a team is over it until it wrecks the future of the franchise NOT because of the money.  You know well the Sox HAD to get under the cap or not see their minor leagues and the int'l signing monies totally decimated.  They got under it in 2020 so things have reset.  So the money will begin to flow again.  But that reset was totally needed to allow for big spending again.

I don't begrudge you Dodgers fans to finally get your win.  It's fun.  Sure I get that.  But after 4 wins in the last 16 years we Red Sox fans are more interested in long term contention and not going all in for one year especially when there wasn't the horses (aka pitchers) to go all in with.

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4 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

 

I don't begrudge you Dodgers fans to finally get your win.  It's fun.  Sure I get that.  But after 4 wins in the last 16 years we Red Sox fans are more interested in long term contention and not going all in for one year especially when there wasn't the horses (aka pitchers) to go all in with.


Yep dodgers don’t care about long term contention. This was their first year contending and they won’t be contending again totally. 
 

Kept their top two prospects (Potentially more depending on how guys turn out)  and still have a better farm than the Red Sox. Totally went “all in” for just this one year .

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12 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Wrong.  Many many New Englanders loved the move.  Again, do you people not understand, the Sox offered him a big contract the year before.  He made it crystal clear he did NOT intend to return to Boston.  Period.  Everyone in these parts that pay attention to these things know that.  Were the Red Sox, with no decent pitching to compete, to keep him on the roster for one more year and lose him to FA and get nothing in return?  I'm loving Verdugo so far and can't wait for Jeter Downs to come up. 

But maybe you think NOT having those two in Boston and not having Betts as well was the right move for the Sox.  Why? Sox scored something (Verdugo & Downs) for nothing (Betts was half way out the door already and gone completely in 2021) so yeah I totally completely 100% love the deal.

Also the Sox are NOT penny pinching.  That is totally ridiculous. John Henry has thrown more money into the team than ever.  The fact that they have the highest payroll in baseball is the reason they had to reset.  Not for the money penalties and you know that too.  You know how the penalties snowball each year a team is over it until it wrecks the future of the franchise NOT because of the money.  You know well the Sox HAD to get under the cap or not see their minor leagues and the int'l signing monies totally decimated.  They got under it in 2020 so things have reset.  So the money will begin to flow again.  But that reset was totally needed to allow for big spending again.

I don't begrudge you Dodgers fans to finally get your win.  It's fun.  Sure I get that.  But after 4 wins in the last 16 years we Red Sox fans are more interested in long term contention and not going all in for one year especially when there wasn't the horses (aka pitchers) to go all in with.

You guys didn’t offer him enough money. Weren’t close. That’s why he left.

In any case I’m thankful for it.

If you want to be upset at your team for wasting money on Rusney Castillo, I can understand that, but you’re just defending their every move here.

sports are a business that are unique insofar as profits are not the highest goal. Winning a championship is. At least for the best run franchises.

Unironically, winning actually helps increase revenue too...

The Sox have punted on that ultimate goal of winning a WS, which would upset me if I was a Sox fan. But I’m glad you can find solace in their moves, jeter downs will be a nice little bench bat / utility guy. Verdugo is a fine consolation prize.

Edited by fawkes_mulder
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4 minutes ago, fawkes_mulder said:

You guys didn’t offer him enough money. Weren’t close. That’s why he left.

In any case I’m thankful for it.

If you want to be upset at your team for wasting money on Rusney Castillo, I can understand that, but you’re just defending their every move here.

sports are a business that are unique insofar as profits are not the highest goal. Winning a championship is. At least for the best run franchises.

I don’t think Marge Schott ever have a sh** about winning, she wouldn’t even pay a couple hundred bucks to display other teams’ scores on the scoreboard.

Unironically, winning actually helps increase revenue too...

The Sox have punted on that ultimate goal of winning a WS, which would upset me if I was a Sox fan. But I’m glad you can find solace in their moves, jeter downs will be a nice little bench bat / utility guy. Verdugo is a fine consolation prize.

Again, as you well know, Rusney Castillo does not count against the cap.  That is why he remained in the minor leagues.  Why are you just making up stuff/  I always respecgted your posts in the past.

John Henry brought 4 rings to Boston.  There will be more.  But a reload was needed.  That is how it works.  Dombrinski went all in for that 4th ring and the result is the minor league cupboard is bare.  Time to fill the pantry and then in about 2 years be back for the 5th ring.

 

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5 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Again, as you well know, Rusney Castillo does not count against the cap.  That is why he remained in the minor leagues.  Why are you just making up stuff/  I always respecgted your posts in the past.

John Henry brought 4 rings to Boston.  There will be more.  But a reload was needed.  That is how it works.  Dombrinski went all in for that 4th ring and the result is the minor league cupboard is bare.  Time to fill the pantry and then in about 2 years be back for the 5th ring.

 


let me know when you get to 7 in 60 years. I’ll be here 

 

congrats on your team that use to be good and now sucks but will one day be good again

Edited by brockpapersizer

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8 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Again, as you well know, Rusney Castillo does not count against the cap.  That is why he remained in the minor leagues.  Why are you just making up stuff/  I always respecgted your posts in the past.

John Henry brought 4 rings to Boston.  There will be more.  But a reload was needed.  That is how it works.  Dombrinski went all in for that 4th ring and the result is the minor league cupboard is bare.  Time to fill the pantry and then in about 2 years be back for the 5th ring.

 

I don’t think you have to rebuild if you’re a major franchise with the money, scouting and organizational talent, and will to do it. I get blowing things up to reload in salary leagues. But that’s not it here.

boston’s been so great this century at always being relevant and yes winning 4 WS, I just don’t support them waving the white flag and acting like the mariners.

But if you can get behind it, hell even defend it, all the power to you.

that rusney deal was really bad though. Lol. Sorry to bring it up. But I’m not making up stuff. That 7 yr / 72.5 m deal w 5.4m signing bonus actually happened.

Edited by fawkes_mulder

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24 minutes ago, fawkes_mulder said:

 

that rusney deal was really bad though. Lol. Sorry to bring it up. But I’m not making up stuff. That 7 yr / 72.5 m deal w 5.4m signing bonus actually happened.


Cuban bubble. All the Cuban prospects were panning out for a minute and someone got left holding the bag on bad scouting . Dodgers signed some bad ones too after Puig, none that bad though.

Edited by brockpapersizer

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Just now, brockpapersizer said:


Cuban bubble. All the Cuban prospects were panning our for a minute and someone got left holding the bag on bad scouting .

Can you imagine trading Randy “Cuban Mookie” Arozarena for Matthew Liberatore?

Not to mention Pham for Genesis Cabrera.

ok I’m done roasting the Red Sox for the time being, the cardinals are an embarrassing, pathetic, mariners quality franchise as of late too.

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15 hours ago, brockpapersizer said:

 

Betts has 12 more years? To put that in perspective, during the time of this contract 18 teams are guaranteed to not win the world series while Betts is a Dodger. That number is likely higher since someone probably wins more than one. Also higher if there are expansion teams.  Do I want the Dodgers to win another one if not more? Yes, of course.  If they don't, I'll be perfectly happy with winning one because of that trade. 

 

The Dodgers will 100% going into 2021 as favorites based on their major league team alone. Not sure what more a Dodger fan can ask for? Their minor league farm is closer to 5 overall than 10th.  Which is nuts.  This is the same  team that turned Turner/Muncy into superstar players after being disregarded.  Like yes, it's possible in 5 years the Dodgers miss the playoffs or under 500, the same could be said about ANY team.  I'm not particularly worried about a baseball team in 5 years. Based on their payroll, scouting, and development, I'm guessing they will be fine if not very good.

 

 

Yeah I agree. At the end of the day it's LA, Dodgers will be relevant no matter what, combination of a big market, one of the best farm systems, and a stacked current roster 👌. Every team no matter how good goes through rebuilds and reloading of rosters and no one can plan for injuries, so yeah not worried at all about the future. 

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15 hours ago, ThreadKiller said:

I hope Turner gets a serious suspension...like half the 2021 season. He likely consciously made the decision to ignore the rules because he knows whatever slap on the wrist he will get from ignoring them will be worth it to celebrate with his teammates. So athletes like him can make that choice and put others in harms way but regular citizens can't travel from NY due to travel restrictions?...The double standard and the entitlement that idiots like Justin Turner has is frustrating.

Is it all on Turner though 🤔? He had an inconclusive test before the game started, yet the MLB did not delay the game until the final results came. If anything that falls on the MLB and Manfred. 

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19 hours ago, brockpapersizer said:

 

Yes thats why you play fantasy baseball, "100% random"

 

I quit four years ago...

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